Zuga
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Zuga
Joined: May 21, 2014
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October 5th, 2014 at 11:08:44 AM permalink
Quote: Sonuvabish

It sounds like you are describing Buzz's suspension as voluntary, like suicide by cop. Buzzard--malum prohibitum. kevintracy (or his creator)--malum in se. I've seen Buzz act the same way before, which leads me to believe he didn't think a banning would be justifiable...in fact, I think he may have thought doing so would be hypocritical, which was a running theme.

I went thru his posts. He complains a bit about the sale, with a sense of foreboding of the future. At some point, Zuga aggressively responds to him, and states he is in all his posts. Although Buzz appears to be be questioning Zuga's motives excessively, that statement isn't true--Buzz is either merely reporting factual information, or making up harmless fantasy for humor in the posts that do include Zuga. Buzz respectfully disagrees with everything he Zuga says, occasionally throwing in a joke that may be a barb--but they are incomprehensible as far as I can tell, so should be ignored. Buzz promises to quit posting on the topic, but Zuga aggressively responds to that post and every other, which is an obvious equal cause to further discord. Buzz ambiguously says Mike earned his respect; Zuga takes it out of context by assigning definitive negative meaning to it, and says Buzz admitted he had no respect for Zuga. Prior to the argument which led to suspension, Buzz jokingly suggested if trolling is not clearly defined, that he, and even Bob Evans (EvenBob), could face lifetime suspensions as of immediately--to which Mission cited as an admission of guilt. 14 days seems excessive, since all evidence of guilt supports an alternative theory. I don't really care. My point is...it is POSSIBLE Buzz didn't think he was going to get banned, at least not justifiably. Buzz clearly was not a good ambassador to a new member; I'm not protesting.



I beg to differ...Buzz respectfully disagrees with me? Disagrees yes, respectfully absolutely NO. Buzz knew what he was doing and he knew there was a possibility he would get banned. What you fail to see is that he was relentless in trolling and his attacks.
And you take everything i said in reply to him, out of context, making it now sound like he is the "victim".
I urge you to go again thru every single post he made since the purchase announcement. Most of those posts were direct or indirect attack at my employee and me.
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I have exercised a lot of patience with him. But that was not enuff.

If you still want to think that I was being aggressive then so be it. I am not here to win a popularity contest, nor I have time to play any games.
If someone wants to be disrespectful then I will surely show them the door.

The only thing I perhaps did wrong is not banning him earlier.
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
Joined: Feb 5, 2014
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October 5th, 2014 at 1:54:37 PM permalink
Quote: Zuga

I beg to differ...Buzz respectfully disagrees with me? Disagrees yes, respectfully absolutely NO. Buzz knew what he was doing and he knew there was a possibility he would get banned. What you fail to see is that he was relentless in trolling and his attacks.
And you take everything i said in reply to him, out of context, making it now sound like he is the "victim".
I urge you to go again thru every single post he made since the purchase announcement. Most of those posts were direct or indirect attack at my employee and me.
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I have exercised a lot of patience with him. But that was not enuff.

If you still want to think that I was being aggressive then so be it. I am not here to win a popularity contest, nor I have time to play any games.
If someone wants to be disrespectful then I will surely show them the door.

The only thing I perhaps did wrong is not banning him earlier.



I didn't mean to say he was actually being respectful to you as a person, per se. I meant he was making an effort to be somewhat formal in addressing you, making it seem like he was not trying to get himself in trouble, while at the same time pressing the limits of what he can say...at least feigning respect for your position. He was relentless, I agree. He trolled, I agree...but I don't agree that it was substantially different than what he usually does. I don't put that on you at all...you were never here before. I stated once I don't think you were wrong to do what you did. I don't think he's the victim, but I do think if you ignored him at a certain point, it would have not escalated to a ban. It's possible he may have quit for a bit, then started up later, causing you again to step in, but we'll never know.
I can see your POV; I am sure you were legitimately irritated. I think you did aggressively respond, which you had a right to do. You may or may not have realized he would respond in kind. I don't think it ultimately helped, but I don't think you handled it poorly either. My only real point was to BBB...I think he thought he wasn't going to get banned. If my other post used facts and inferences to characterize Buzz as innocent, it was mostly to bolster my point and put forth an alternate view (one view I have is that bans happen too much in general). I honestly don't care if he's banned or not. And when I see green after a post I make, I always feel dread...so you are no less popular than any other mod in my book.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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October 5th, 2014 at 2:03:53 PM permalink
Quote: Sonuvabish

I didn't mean to say he was actually being respectful to you as a person, per se. I meant he was making an effort to be somewhat formal in addressing you, which seemed like he was not trying to get himself in trouble, while at the same time pressing the limits of what he can say...at least feigning respect for your position. He was relentless, I agree. He trolled, I agree...but I don't agree that it was substantially different than what he usually does. I don't put that on you at all...you were never here before. I stated once I don't think you were wrong to do what you did. I don't think he's the victim, but I do think if you ignored him at a certain point, it would have not escalated to a ban. It's possible he may have quit for a bit, then started up later, causing you again to step in, but we'll never know.
I can see how your POV; I am sure you were legitimately irritated. I think you did aggressively respond, which you had a right to do. You may or may not have realized he would respond in kind. I don't think it ultimately helped, but I don't think you handled it poorly either. My only real point was to BBB...I think he thought he wasn't going to get banned. I honestly don't care if he's banned or not. And when I see green after a post I make, I always feel dread...so you are no less popular than any other mod in my book.



I don't know what point you hope to make to me in all this. I've banned him at least twice; I've warned him other times, including this one. He likes to make the running joke of us having some relationship; I've never met him, but I play along. That said, he adds something to the board, and though I agreed on the 14 days (which was the least he was going to get), I'm glad he will be able to return, and I hope he does. So, no, he has no reason to "expect to get away" (paraphrasing your specious argument) with anything, with me or anyone else.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
1BB
1BB
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
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October 5th, 2014 at 2:11:44 PM permalink
What's the punishment for a seventh offense?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
Joined: Feb 5, 2014
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October 5th, 2014 at 2:11:53 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I don't know what point you hope to make to me in all this. I've banned him at least twice; I've warned him other times, including this one. He likes to make the running joke of us having some relationship; I've never met him, but I play along. That said, he adds something to the board, and though I agreed on the 14 days (which was the least he was going to get), I'm glad he will be able to return, and I hope he does. So, no, he has no reason to "expect to get away" (paraphrasing your specious argument) with anything, with me or anyone else.



I didn't know that was a joke...I thought you guys might be talking. He's been here a long time, and he's EvenBob Jr. (no offense EvenBob). So basically he constantly trolls, and dodges the penalty. Seems to me reason to think he'd get away with it, in addition to the previous statement of facts. But my point wasn't that he had a good 'reason' to believe, only that I believed that's what he thought. I wrote a long paragraph to demonstrate that if you were Buzz, you would not need to be insane to believe you wouldn't be suspended. Your position, I believe, is suicide by cop, which I find less persuasive.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 5th, 2014 at 3:29:03 PM permalink
Quote: Sonuvabish

So basically he constantly trolls, and dodges the penalty.



No, he doesn't. And that's why he doesn't
get suspended very often. He was repeatedly
rude to the new owner. But most of the time
he's just being Buzz, something you can't seem
to grasp. Not everything you don't like is 'trolling',
not by a long shot. I'm doubful, like a lot of
people, you even know what real trolling is.
Many people think if you express your opinion
all the time, that's trolling. It's not..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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October 5th, 2014 at 3:33:55 PM permalink
Quote: Zuga

If you still want to think that I was being aggressive then so be it. I am not here to win a popularity contest, nor I have time to play any games. If someone wants to be disrespectful then I will surely show them the door. The only thing I perhaps did wrong is not banning him earlier.



And the new broom sweeps clean.

Your purchase, your rules.

Yeah, Buzz knew what he was doing; you can only poke a tiger with a stick so many times before the tiger gets irked and takes you down.
"What, me worry?"
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
Joined: Feb 5, 2014
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October 5th, 2014 at 3:46:16 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

No, he doesn't. And that's why he doesn't
get suspended very often. He was repeatedly
rude to the new owner. But most of the time
he's just being Buzz, something you can't seem
to grasp. Not everything you don't like is 'trolling',
not by a long shot. I'm doubful, like a lot of
people, you even know what real trolling is.
Many people think if you express your opinion
all the time, that's trolling. It's not..



I don't mind what he does. I think I generally agree with you trolling is a vague, overly broad term as applied on the forum. I didn't know what trolling was before I came here--meaning that it existed. And whoever is really concerned with the intricacies and boundaries of trolling--has too much time on their hands. And he was rude. But maybe we differ in that I don't think he was being much different than usual. He was expressing disagreement, to which he agreed to stop. If he was trolling and this was different than what he normally does, he was being fed. I'm not sure what I don't grasp, I'm saying he was being Buzz and they called it trolling this time.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 5th, 2014 at 3:48:49 PM permalink
Quote: Sonuvabish

I don't mind what he does. I think I generally agree with you trolling is a vague,.



Then why did you state 'he was basically trolling'
and getting away with it? Which is it, you think
he was trolling or you don't. *facepalm*
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
Joined: Feb 5, 2014
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October 5th, 2014 at 3:49:49 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Then why did you state 'he was basically trolling'
and getting away with it? Which is it, you think
he was trolling or you don't. *facepalm*



He said this himself! He's either constantly trolling or never trolling. What he did here is not different, in my opinion, than his normal behavior. I think a ban was appropriate, personally, but 14 days seems excessive due to the past history of the poster always acting like that without penalty! On the other hand, Zuga doesn't know that. If I was Zuga, I'd wonder why I'm being attacked.

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