Sale of wizard of odds/vegas websites
Quote: BozWow! It keeps getting better. We now have an ad for a casino offering $5000 in welcome bonuses and is Wizard approved. Why would anyone click on the ones offering only $777 or $3000?
I clicked on the 5K Lincoln Casino bonus.
Read the rules.
Each 1k deposit is matched by a 1k bonus for a max total of 5 1k deposits that are matched.
credit card deposit only
Have to run the total amount through 20x before you can do a withdraw.
For games such as BJ or VP, you get 10% credit for the bet.
They actually had a table clearly explaining this and how much total had to be wagered before a withdraw.
For example a 50 deposit, 50 bonus, 20X, video poker 10%, equals 20k required wager before you can withdraw
These 3 sentences are at the bottom.
"Management will not be obligated to provide a reason for refusing any withdrawal request or be liable for its decision"
"Management reserves the right to alter the Terms and Conditions of its promotions at any time"
"Management's decision is final."
No editorial, just the facts :-)
Quote: terapinedI clicked on the 5K Lincoln Casino bonus.
Read the rules.
Each 1k deposit is matched by a 1k bonus for a max total of 5 1k deposits that are matched.
credit card deposit only
Have to run the total amount through 20x before you can do a withdraw.
For games such as BJ or VP, you get 10% credit for the bet.
They actually had a table clearly explaining this and how much total had to be wagered before a withdraw.
For example a 50 deposit, 50 bonus, 20X, video poker 10%, equals 20k required wager before you can withdraw
These 3 sentences are at the bottom.
"Management will not be obligated to provide a reason for refusing any withdrawal request or be liable for its decision"
"Management reserves the right to alter the Terms and Conditions of its promotions at any time"
"Management's decision is final."
No editorial, just the facts :-)
love at first disclaimer.I am guessing like many other online casinos if they don't like that you are beating them or they think you are counting cards in blackjack or if they can come up with any other reason to not pay you if you are winning they will refuse to pay you and not give you any reason.I'm pretty sure I've never seen a sign like that in a regular casino.
ZCore13
that is true about the fool and his money, but the difference is if you legitimatly win money no casino is going to reserve the right to refuse to pay you. It is well documented that online casinos do that. Even if you are counting cards in a land-based casino they will not take your money away that you won when they back you off.Quote: MrVWhile I agree there is a strong potential to get screwed by online casinos, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that we who gamble at brick and mortar casinos playing negative expectation games aren't really in much of a position to lecture "Tsk tsk, a fool and his money are soon parted."
ZCore13
Really? You guys haven't heard about people being backroomed and having chips confiscated?Quote: MrVTrue dat.
Obviously its 100x less likely.
In reality, I and others have had Brick and mortar casinos weasel out on promotions and not pay what was promised many times(10's of thousands worth), all while following the rules completely. I haven't had an online casino do that yet. I know many people have had problems with online casinos. I'm a bit more selective online nowadays, in the past(when it was really good) no so much, I played tons of different casinos.
+10Quote: MrVWhile I agree there is a strong potential to get screwed by online casinos, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that we who gamble at brick and mortar casinos playing negative expectation games aren't really in much of a position to lecture "Tsk tsk, a fool and his money are soon parted."
I'm not going to play anything online unless I feel I have a dam good advantage. I always factor in the possibility of not getting paid. With some casinos online I'm fairly confident they'll pay without a problem.
Quote: Zcore13that is true about the fool and his money, but the difference is if you legitimatly win money no casino is going to reserve the right to refuse to pay you. It is well documented that online casinos do that. Even if you are counting cards in a land-based casino they will not take your money away that you won when they back you off.
ZCore13
May I point you to the latest at Mr. Grosjean's blog where he makes it clear that this is not the case?
http://beyondnumbers.lvablog.com/2014/11/18/how-casinos-cheat-part-ii-heads-i-win-tails-you-lose/
Quote: bigfoot66May I point you to the latest at Mr. Grosjean's blog where he makes it clear that this is not the case?
http://beyondnumbers.lvablog.com/2014/11/18/how-casinos-cheat-part-ii-heads-i-win-tails-you-lose/
You are welcome to point it out, but the couple bottom of the barrel casinos he mentioned are breaking the law.
There is no law or oversite or anyone that can do anything when an online casino refuses to pay you based on made up information. Disputing that online casinos have VERY little if any regulation and that there is any type of legitimate recourse against them is delusional at best.
ZCore13
On a related note, here in Phoenix the Gila River casino's have a pai gow progressive jackpot that is around half a million. If you put a red chip on the light to bet the progressive ($1), the dealers will make the necessary change but will not put the $1 chip on the light for you, YOU must. The dealers are all convinced that the tribe would stiff the winner if they put the dollar on the light for you and gave you the $4 change: The way this same operation is handled in every other casino in the country. They are also quite sure that someone touching their cards before the four cards have been counted at the end of the deal would void the jackpot.
I used to be convinced that casino management operated on good faith but I am less and less convinced of that.
Quote: bigfoot66These are all valid points, but you said that a b&m casinos would never confiscate chips when backing off an AP, I was offering evidence to the contrary.
On a related note, here in Phoenix the Gila River casino's have a pai gow progressive jackpot that is around half a million. If you put a red chip on the light to bet the progressive ($1), the dealers will make the necessary change but will not put the $1 chip on the light for you, YOU must. The dealers are all convinced that the tribe would stiff the winner if they put the dollar on the light for you and gave you the $4 change: The way this same operation is handled in every other casino in the country. They are also quite sure that someone touching their cards before the four cards have been counted at the end of the deal would void the jackpot.
I used to be convinced that casino management operated on good faith but I am less and less convinced of that.
Dealers tell all sorts of stories. Doesn't mean they are true. I would doubt either scenario you mentioned would have any effect as neither would have effected the integrity of the hand or game.
ZCore13
Quote: bigfoot66
I used to be convinced that casino management operated on good faith but I am less and less convinced of that.
It all depends on the game and security issues of the game.
At the Hard Rock Tampa, poker room has a royal flush jackpot.
Some girl hit it recently, she was so excited, she ran over to her boyfriend at another table with her 2 cards.
She was not paid. Cant leave the table with cards.
Its a gaming security issue.
I was playing pai gow with the fortune bonus, almost dropped a card on the floor.
Dealer said to be careful, if I hit the fortune but dropped a card on the floor, would not get paid.
Quote: terapinedIt all depends on the game and security issues of the game.
At the Hard Rock Tampa, poker room has a royal flush jackpot.
Some girl hit it recently, she was so excited, she ran over to her boyfriend at another table with her 2 cards.
She was not paid. Cant leave the table with cards.
Its a gaming security issue.
I was playing pai gow with the fortune bonus, almost dropped a card on the floor.
Dealer said to be careful, if I hit the fortune but dropped a card on the floor, would not get paid.
That's a terrible story, but that girl is a moron. As far as cards falling on the floor, as far as i know this is a standard in the industry, no?
I have seen many casinos that require the chips wagered to be contacted by the player him/herself before the hand is played. I know the hardrock stopped allowing players to cap others bets around the table, although i still see some dealers allowing it, because disputes arose to whose money it actually was etc... Id imagine this applies to the example that was stated about "the dealers think the tribe will screw someone over"
Quote: Zcore13Dealers tell all sorts of stories. Doesn't mean they are true. I would doubt either scenario you mentioned would have any effect as neither would have effected the integrity of the hand or game.
ZCore13
Yes, dealers are often wrong and maybe the tribe would pay. I'm not so sure.
But even if they would pay, the management is bad: A) their dealers are telling their patrons that they may not get the progressive because of stupid BS procedure, and B) from a time/motion standpoint their dealers are costing them a lot of money with unnecessary and time wasting procedure.
Quote: bigfoot66Yes, dealers are often wrong and maybe the tribe would pay. I'm not so sure.
But even if they would pay, the management is bad: A) their dealers are telling their patrons that they may not get the progressive because of stupid BS procedure, and B) from a time/motion standpoint their dealers are costing them a lot of money with unnecessary and time wasting procedure.
Lots of that going on all over the place. I can't deny or defend most of it. It's actually part of my topic(s) when I speak or present about Table Games.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Lots of that going on all over the place. I can't deny or defend most of it. It's actually part of my topic(s) when I speak or present about Table Games.
ZCore13
The one argument i can see coming from the dealer placing the wager for the client is similar to the issue i spoke about concerning the hardrock.
What would happen if the dealer places the wager for the client, hits the progressive and then says "that $5 was a tip and I decided to convince the player, who agreed, to place the progressive for me in return for the other 4 dollars back"? as ridiculous as that may sound, do you believe, based on the other things you are saying about some dealers, that this situation could never arise? Needless to say, even if the proper thing happened an the player was paid, do you think any patron would ever come back and play at that casino? I dont...
I can understand if this is one reason for this procedure actually being in place.
Quote: mrsuit31The one argument i can see coming from the dealer placing the wager for the client is similar to the issue i spoke about concerning the hardrock.
What would happen if the dealer places the wager for the client, hits the progressive and then says "that $5 was a tip and I decided to convince the player, who agreed, to place the progressive for me in return for the other 4 dollars back"? as ridiculous as that may sound, do you believe, based on the other things you are saying about some dealers, that this situation could never arise? Needless to say, even if the proper thing happened an the player was paid, do you think any patron would ever come back and play at that casino? I dont...
I can understand if this is one reason for this procedure actually being in place.
I would say that that's not the case if they put their $5 on the betting spot first. The dealer is then making change and giving back the over back. I'm sure other places could define it however they want to though. But I would never avoid any type of hand or jackpot in table games or poker unless the integrity of the game was involved.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I would say that that's not the case if they put their $5 on the betting spot first. The dealer is then making change and giving back the over back. I'm sure other places could define it however they want to though. But I would never avoid any type of hand or jackpot in table games or poker unless the integrity of the game was involved.
ZCore13
Of course, just some hypos as to some possible reasoning...
I think you know what I was trying to say.
Quote: mrsuit31The one argument i can see coming from the dealer placing the wager for the client is similar to the issue i spoke about concerning the hardrock.
What would happen if the dealer places the wager for the client, hits the progressive and then says "that $5 was a tip and I decided to convince the player, who agreed, to place the progressive for me in return for the other 4 dollars back"? as ridiculous as that may sound, do you believe, based on the other things you are saying about some dealers, that this situation could never arise? Needless to say, even if the proper thing happened an the player was paid, do you think any patron would ever come back and play at that casino? I dont...
I can understand if this is one reason for this procedure actually being in place.
I see the point you are making, but this would have to happen at an empty table so that no other player could witness the events. Also if the player has been placing the bet all night, places the red chip squarely on the light, and takes the $4 change, I don't see how anyone would believe the dealer. Furthermore, how does the procedure combat your cheating dealer? Couldn't the dealer say that they guy put his tip on the light even if the player handled the chip?
Finally, I would think that the "tip" bet technically belongs to the player until he gives it to the dealer. Yes I know that rules are different for the tip bet (smaller minimum, no commission taken out at Bacc/ Pai Gow, etc) but I think if you made a tip bet and it won and you kept the money, they wouldn't have much grounds to make you give them the money. So even if I put a "tip" on the light and kept the money, I don't think that the dealer would have much of a claim on the money.
Quote: bigfoot66I see the point you are making, but this would have to happen at an empty table so that no other player could witness the events. Also if the player has been placing the bet all night, places the red chip squarely on the light, and takes the $4 change, I don't see how anyone would believe the dealer. Furthermore, how does the procedure combat your cheating dealer? Couldn't the dealer say that they guy put his tip on the light even if the player handled the chip?
Finally, I would think that the "tip" bet technically belongs to the player until he gives it to the dealer. Yes I know that rules are different for the tip bet (smaller minimum, no commission taken out at Bacc/ Pai Gow, etc) but I think if you made a tip bet and it won and you kept the money, they wouldn't have much grounds to make you give them the money. So even if I put a "tip" on the light and kept the money, I don't think that the dealer would have much of a claim on the money.
My hypo wouldn't apply to putting the chip on the light, and I was just making a theoretical statement haha. (when your looking for justification, someone will usually be able to find one)
When it comes to believing anyone about anything, does this ever stop someone from initiating the argument at all.
For example, say someone joins a forum and claims that certain BJ machines are gaffed and rigged to lose if someone raises their wager......... Lol sorry I had to... I hope you understand..
Quote: terapinedIt all depends on the game and security issues of the game.
At the Hard Rock Tampa, poker room has a royal flush jackpot.
Some girl hit it recently, she was so excited, she ran over to her boyfriend at another table with her 2 cards.
She was not paid. Cant leave the table with cards.
Its a gaming security issue.
I was playing pai gow with the fortune bonus, almost dropped a card on the floor.
Dealer said to be careful, if I hit the fortune but dropped a card on the floor, would not get paid.
I heard this story 21`years ago; back then it was Progressive Caribbean Stud she was playing and her bf was at the other table.
I'm not saying it's impossible it happened in Tampa recently, but literally every casino I've played carnival games in has told this story almost the same way; only the game she was playing changed. At this point, it's urban legend, along with the guy not playing the Fortune bonus who got the big hand, demanded a cut of everyone else's Envy bonus, was refused, and mucked the hand.
UL or not, I still think it's a good story.
Quote: beachbumbabsI heard this story 21`years ago; back then it was Progressive Caribbean Stud she was playing and her bf was at the other table.
I'm not saying it's impossible it happened in Tampa recently, but literally every casino I've played carnival games in has told this story almost the same way; only the game she was playing changed. At this point, it's urban legend, along with the guy not playing the Fortune bonus who got the big hand, demanded a cut of everyone else's Envy bonus, was refused, and mucked the hand.
UL or not, I still think it's a good story.
If the mucking story happened at my Casino I'd probably get a call. And when told the story I'd tell them to take the hand out of the muck and pay all envies if the hand is indeed a "big" hand.
ZCore13
Really glad you see it that way. I've heard that from several PB's/floors in the last couple of years, that they'd make good on the envy. The first decade or so after I heard it, that was how they treated it, as a fouled hand.
A lot of people, playing the bonus or not, muck their hand in disgust when the dealer sets a better one. (not telling you anything new, just in the larger discussion). I'm guessing there'll be a perfect storm someday, where the player gets some huge hand, except that the dealer's is better (like SF over SF with a better top), and they've made some indication to the table that it's there, so an envy pay is owed, and they muck because they didn't bet. Then we'll see, I guess.
I would think the top bonus hand (7card sf no joker most games) probably pushes when it does show up, unless it's ace high. Never seen it, but there's sure no top available better than AK on it.
Again, it's not my site and they do what they want with it and their spent money, but it is looking more like the owners are calling the shots and anyone willing to advertise with them is getting the Wizard endorsement as an added bonus. Just a little incite into how they are working to get their purchase price back.
Surely you are posting this as the result of a prophecy. I imagine some members did not see this coming. I worry a about them.
But since this thread is public, for anyone who considers me a credible source, there's no federal law against gambling online, the restriction is against banks handling the transactions, and against operators from taking sports bets. (i.e., The laws targets banks and operators, not players.) Some *states* have anti-online-gambling laws (no, I don't have a list), and some states prohibit any kind of gambling by its residents, whether online or not. Here's my detailed article on the legal status of online gambling.
Quote: MichaelBluejayIf you'll accept an answer only from Zuga, then why did you post in the forum rather than sending him a PM? (For that matter, why did you post your question in a thread about the sale of WoO when your question is about something entirely different?)
But since this thread is public, for anyone who considers me a credible source, there's no federal law against gambling online, the restriction is against banks handling the transactions, and against operators from taking sports bets. (i.e., The laws targets banks and operators, not players.) Some *states* have anti-online-gambling laws (no, I don't have a list), and some states prohibit any kind of gambling by its residents, whether online or not. Here's my detailed article on the legal status of online gambling.
Ugh. Maybe I just didn't feel like PMing him. I didn't know I couldn't publicly ask a private individual a question. If he would like to answer by PM only, I'd be happy to act as if the question is still open.
This is exactly what I don't want. I don't care what some crackpot blogs on a .com website, and any other information you googled. I can google that it is illegal for the US to impose an income tax and I can google proof that global warming is a hoax. The first self-proclaimed expert can't help but throw in his two cents, which I guess I knew would happen. Zuga is an administrator of these casinos and I would like to know from him...I imagine one or two others are curious too. No offense, but who would care what you think? We all have google. Honestly, what makes you a credible source? The fact that you can read? Your keyword search skills? Zuga knows how it works, not you.
Maybe you should start a thread about what thread my question falls under, I promise I won't read it.
Quote: SonuvabishI don't care what some crackpot blogs on a .com website, and any other information you googled. I can google that it is illegal for the US to impose an income tax and I can google proof that global warming is a hoax. The first self-proclaimed expert can't help but throw in his two cents, which I guess I knew would happen. Zuga is an administrator of these casinos and I would like to know from him...I imagine one or two others are curious too. No offense, but who would care what you think? We all have google. Honestly, what makes you a credible source? The fact that you can read? Your keyword search skills? Zuga knows how it works, not you.
Michael Bluejay was Wizard's webmaster for many years, and negotiated advertising deals with online casinos that Wizard promoted. Calling him a crackpot who lacks credibility is unreasonable.
Edit: JB answered perfectly.
Quote: SonuvabishI have a question for Zuga. I think it has been alluded to previously. Isn't it illegal for US customers to gamble online? If not, what is the legal status? I am not looking for an answer from a self-proclaimed expert who is not Zuga telling me that it is OK to use Paypal to circumnavigate the law's grey areas.
It's always going to be alluded to. Because its possible there could be some repercussion if someone interprets the law wrong. It's better to tell us to research the laws in your particular state. There's no way a casino affiliate site would want to suggest its illegal.
I heard, at one time, even just advertising online gambling from or in Washington state was illegal.
Promoting online gambling in the US might not be 100% legal in some states.
There might be laws regarding gambling in an unlicensed casino, that may have nothing to do with the wire act.
Bovada backed out of Nevada I suspect they did it because they have legal online poker.
Quote: SonuvabishQuote: MichaelBluejayIf you'll accept an answer only from Zuga, then why did you post in the forum rather than sending him a PM? (For that matter, why did you post your question in a thread about the sale of WoO when your question is about something entirely different?)
But since this thread is public, for anyone who considers me a credible source, there's no federal law against gambling online, the restriction is against banks handling the transactions, and against operators from taking sports bets. (i.e., The laws targets banks and operators, not players.) Some *states* have anti-online-gambling laws (no, I don't have a list), and some states prohibit any kind of gambling by its residents, whether online or not. Here's my detailed article on the legal status of online gambling.
Ugh. Maybe I just didn't feel like PMing him. I didn't know I couldn't publicly ask a private individual a question. If he would like to answer by PM only, I'd be happy to act as if the question is still open.
This is exactly what I don't want. I don't care what some crackpot blogs on a .com website, and any other information you googled. I can google that it is illegal for the US to impose an income tax and I can google proof that global warming is a hoax. The first self-proclaimed expert can't help but throw in his two cents, which I guess I knew would happen. Zuga is an administrator of these casinos and I would like to know from him...I imagine one or two others are curious too. No offense, but who would care what you think? We all have google. Honestly, what makes you a credible source? The fact that you can read? Your keyword search skills? Zuga knows how it works, not you.
Maybe you should start a thread about what thread my question falls under, I promise I won't read it.
The law as written makes it illegal to make online payment trasactions in US to gambing websites.
There is some ambiguity in the law. But many websites have closed down because this is a criminal offence and they could end up in jail.
If I can quote the similarity with prostitution and soliciting. The former is legal the latter is illegal.
M. Bluejay is operating an online gambling website so what else can he say.
The government so far has not used this law against any party/persons.
Quote: JBMichael Bluejay was Wizard's webmaster for many years, and negotiated advertising deals with online casinos that Wizard promoted. Calling him a crackpot who lacks credibility is unreasonable.
My genuine apologies offered to bluejay. Skimming, I didn't realize that was HIS website, rather I thought it a generic one. I did not intend to call bluejay a crackpot, I meant to state that the Internet has plenty of crackpot websites and opinions. I hope this mistake is clear.
As for the actual message, I don't see why being a webmaster qualifies him to answer a question addressed to Zuga. It just makes me think that he is in fact good at keyword searches. There are obviously complexities to law in general, and when we talk about non-gambling activities of online casinos we are way off-point. Why is he more of an expert than a run-of-the-mill gambler on the legality of gambling? I've been inundated with non-responses, which I specifically said I did not need. I have google, I've already read everything mentioned. I wanted to hear Zuga's perspective. I withdraw the question since everyone is an expert except me. If anyone would like to explain the meaning of life, please feel free to google it and then awe me.
Quote: MoosetonBish, your attitude sucks. Michael Blue Jay has a rock solid rep here. Period.
Edit: JB answered perfectly.
He's your online friend. Good for him. I'll try to stay positive; maybe one day everyone will add me to their friends list on AOL instant Messenger.
is that still a thing?Quote: SonuvabishAOL instant Messenger.
I remember when AOL chat rooms were popular. Then the hookers took over. Do people still do the chat room thing?
What the USA has is called UIGEA, which stand for Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. It was passed back in 2006. However the bill itself does not ban online gambling itself, but it is directed at banks and financial institutions from processing the funds sent to online gambling sites. Article on UIGEA
Quote: SonuvabishMy genuine apologies offered to bluejay. Skimming, I didn't realize that was HIS website, rather I thought it a generic one. I did not intend to call bluejay a crackpot, I meant to state that the Internet has plenty of crackpot websites and opinions. I hope this mistake is clear.
Apology noted but I'm still going to have suspend you for the personal insult. I have to agree with others that if the only answer you'll respect is from Zuga, than ask him directly, don't post the question on a public board. Furthermore, Bluejay was right.
You evidently didn't learn your lesson after serving a month for this post, so let's make it another one.
Quote: AxelWolfis that still a thing?
I remember when AOL chat rooms were popular. Then the hookers took over. Do people still do the chat room thing?
AOL Instant Messenger is experiencing a very strange second life as a business communication tool in the commodity trading industry. But they also haven't really solved the issues with sex solicitations. So I talk to gas traders and random webcam girls all day at work. It's pretty special...
Quote: SonuvabishNo offense, but who would care what you think?
Well, just for starters, the New York Times, Newsweek, Forbes, the Christian Science Monitor, and Casino Player magazine, all of which have either interviewed me, referenced my work, or published my articles.
Quote: SonuvabishHonestly, what makes you a credible source?
I don't know, ask the above outlets why they consider me credible.
Quote: SonuvabishI don't care what some crackpot blogs on a .com website, and any other information you googled.
Well, then you might have bothered to actually read the article before you dismissed it out of hand. You'd see that my very first reference is a statement by U.S. Attorney Catherine Hanaway of the Department of Justice saying that placing wagers online doesn't violate federal law. I even gave the timestamp of exactly where she said that in the video of the House of Representatives hearing. Maybe it's this kind if attention to detail and citing good sources that makes credible media outlets feel that they can count on me.
Quote:I don't see why being a webmaster qualifies him…It just makes me think that he is in fact good at keyword searches.
Yeah, you can definitely draw that kind of conclusion if you don't actually pay any attention to the article you're criticizing.
To the community: Thank you very much for defending my honour. I don't claim to be an expert, and people are free to decline to trust the information I provide if they so choose, but alleging that I compile my articles by doing Google searches and indiscriminately grabbing whatever I find is just wrong.
I don't know about that, but he has provided well researched bicycle safety information that may have saved my life.Quote: JBMichael Bluejay was Wizard's webmaster for many years, and negotiated advertising deals with online casinos that Wizard promoted.
Placing bets.Quote: MichaelBluejayCatherine Hanaway of the Department of Justice saying that placing wagers online doesn't violate federal law. .
Assume we got that out of the way.
Now what about cashing out money? What about gambling online from the US in different countries. Is it your opinion none of that violates federal law?
I'm wondering if Catherine Hanaway of the Department of Justice saying that placing wagers online doesn't violate federal law, is meant for licensed US casinos who allow you to place a wager within that state.
All the casinos being advertised are in different countries.
Quote: WizardI have to agree with others that if the only answer you'll respect is from Zuga, than ask him directly, don't post the question on a public board. Furthermore, Bluejay was right.
It's called an open letter, such as to the editor?
Quote: KerkebetIt's called an open letter, such as to the editor?
I have never before seen an open letter stating that only responses from the target of said letter were acceptable.
Quote: ZugaLink source MichaelBluejay provided covers it pretty much all. It is not illegal for players to gamble online in the US.
What the USA has is called UIGEA, which stand for Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. It was passed back in 2006. However the bill itself does not ban online gambling itself, but it is directed at banks and financial institutions from processing the funds sent to online gambling sites. Article on UIGEA
I agree with you that it is a long short for gamblers to be charged in court under this act.
The legality of this is something else and I would put this aside for now.
Your reading of the UIGEA is pretty much the same as mine.
"but it is directed at banks and financial institutions from processing the funds sent to online gambling sites"
But you are an Accessory and Aiding and Abetting such illegal processing of funds. The start of the process and click through your website clearly define you as such.
That makes you as guilty as the banks and financial institutions.
Just know once again if found guilty you are looking at jail time.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm wondering if Catherine Hanaway of the Department of Justice saying that placing wagers online doesn't violate federal law, is meant for licensed US casinos who allow you to place a wager within that state.
Here again, if you'd bothered to actually read the source in question you would have had your answer. (Which is that of course she wasn't talking about licensed U.S. casinos. You apparently think that I either would have been intentionally misleading everyone about the "true" meaning of her statement if I'd been aware of it, or else you think I'm so incompetent that I might not have recognized what she was "actually" talking about. Either way, thanks.)
Quote: Deck007But you are an Accessory and Aiding and Abetting such illegal processing of funds. The start of the process and click through your website clearly define you as such.
I think most legal observers beg to differ, to put it mildly. Can you cite any legal experts who share your opinion?
Quote: MichaelBluejayHere again, if you'd bothered to actually read the source in question you would have had your answer. (Which is that of course she wasn't talking about licensed U.S. casinos. You apparently think that I either would have been intentionally misleading everyone about the "true" meaning of her statement if I'd been aware of it, or else you think I'm so incompetent that I might not have recognized what she was "actually" talking about. Either way, thanks.)
I think most legal observers beg to differ, to put it mildly. Can you cite any legal experts who share your opinion?
You disagree with me. But you do know that if you are wrong the consequences are horrible for you. You are taking one heck of a risk.
" most legal observers beg to differ" I think this is something you pluck out of the sky. I am not a lawyer but I see this very clearly.
If the Justice Dept. decide to get a court ruling on this. You lose hands down already. You need to hire a lawyer to defend you and the court cost you pay.
That was truly funny stuff. I can't believe he got a month for that. I know chickenman was was slightly miffed at the time, but looking back even he should find some humor in that comment.Quote: Wizard
You evidently didn't learn your lesson after serving a month for this post,
Quote: MichaelBluejayHere again, if you'd bothered to actually read the source in question you would have had your answer. (Which is that of course she wasn't talking about licensed U.S. casinos. You apparently think that I either would have been intentionally misleading everyone about the "true" meaning of her statement if I'd been aware of it, or else you think I'm so incompetent that I might not have recognized what she was "actually" talking about. Either way, thanks.)
I think most legal observers beg to differ, to put it mildly. Can you cite any legal experts who share your opinion?
Really, you are admonishing me for WONDERING about something that even she originally said WAS ILLEGAL, then changed her mind. Again, and even according to your article..."She started out by saying flatly that all Internet gambling is illegal, including not only sports but also casino games and even poker"
Your article....Rep. Robert Wexler. Has the Dept. of Justice shut down a single e-lottery system in the United States? And if you haven't, why not?
Hanaway said she didn't know, but that she could find out and follow up.
So how can I assume you "recognized what she was "actually" talking about", when its clear... she doesn't know what she is talking about?
Perhaps you somehow thought that I came here to stir up/attack/ inflame /trick you or zuga, like SOB did. It's obvious to me why he specifically asked zuga the question, and where he was headed.
I highly doubt SOB cares about online gambling or the laws. I VERY MUCH DO CARE! But it has nothing to do with insinuating zuga, other gambling affiliates or online gamblers are breaking any laws, just to stir up &%$@. ( Sorry Sonuvabish if im wrong, I have nothing against you, I enjoy many of you're posts )
Sorry if you believe this....
Quote: MichaelBluejayYou apparently think that I either would have been intentionally misleading everyone about the "true" meaning of her statement if I'd been aware of it, or else you think I'm so incompetent that I might not have recognized what she was "actually" talking about. Either way, thanks.
You read to much into what I asked and assumed the worst. I wasn't thinking anything like that. Perhaps you were projecting your feelings on me because of SOB's comments.
Quote: Deck007
But you are an Accessory and Aiding and Abetting such illegal processing of funds. The start of the process and click through your website clearly define you as such.
That makes you as guilty as the banks and financial institutions.
Just know once again if found guilty you are looking at jail time.
Not really. We do not take bets nor place the bets, we do not take nor process the money. What we do is provide reviews on all online casinos ( whether they USA friendly or not ) . Kind of like tripadvisor does for hotels, restaurants etc
Furthermore UIGEA does not prohibits online marketing, advertising nor affiliation. And since it is NOT illegal for the USA citizens to play online, then how can it be illegal to provide them with the reviews on where to play online?
