Thread Rating:

Poll

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1 vote (1.08%)
1 vote (1.08%)
7 votes (7.6%)
2 votes (2.17%)
1 vote (1.08%)
6 votes (6.52%)
1 vote (1.08%)
67 votes (72.82%)

92 members have voted

UCivan
UCivan
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June 9th, 2014 at 11:32:06 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Personal insult -- Fourth offense -- 30 days. Be careful of that door on your way out ...

+2
boymimbo
boymimbo
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June 9th, 2014 at 11:47:24 AM permalink
Folks, donate based on your own conscious. Mike isn't forcing any of us to pay, and frankly if WoV, DT, or WoO went away, my life wouldn't be affected whatsoever.

So, when Larrys went on his ill-fated rant, I didn't get it. Wiki asks for donations, and I don't see rants because of Wiki's minor reminder from time to time.

I mean, Wizard could sell our email addresses to gambling sites. Wizard could force us to read pop-up ads every click and see ads between forum posts. Wizard could charge membership fees. Wizard could put gambling advice behind a pay-for-membership firewall.

Instead, Wizard's funding for this website consists of Bodog advertising exclusively. We, in turn, get a very clean and easy-to-use UI and is probably the most readable gambling forum on the net, because of his moral decision to not clog up the website with ads.

So, donate, or don't.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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June 9th, 2014 at 1:05:45 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

I believe your statement that you make bad business decisions

you are like the guy that sets his house on fire and then complains that its to expensive to pay for all the water damage after the fire dept leaves.

2 days before my last suspension I posted my email address....and during the first week of my suspension I recived over 20 emails from people disgusted with the behavior on this site. Oh no....not the behavior of the posters. but the behavior that you personally allow of your mods. I am not going to detail the issues here since this is not the thread for it.

What good is getting new advertisers if there are people willing to barrage them with hate mail.(organization like that was suggested by one person that emailed me).

you set your house on fire.........get some gasoline or get some water....its up to you

However I do know the response that every customer loves to hear....."if your dont like it....dont let the door hit you ....."

And yes we are all "customers".....even if a business owner gives out something for free doesnt mean his representatives can behave inappropriately.

AS a real businessman I know how businesses treat people. If I have an ice cream store, and give out free icecream cones one day.....and some guy complains sarcastically that the portion is too small......I could say...."dont let the door hit you in the ass "I am kicking you out for loitering and sarcasm.....or I could say "thanks for your feedback, I will take that into consideration when I hold the next promotion".

I agree you have alot to learn about business. One key trait of a good businessman is the ability to surround themselves with exceptional people.

FACE was a good start.


Wow. Talk about walking in to someone's house as a guest and then punching them in the face. I hope you learn some manners during your time out.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
timberjim
timberjim
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June 9th, 2014 at 1:22:35 PM permalink
Definitely not donating.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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June 9th, 2014 at 1:26:30 PM permalink
I can understand not donating, and I can even understand feeling that there are reasons not to, even if able to. Even the Wizard acknowledged a case can be made by mentioning Ayn Rand.

But I don't understand the need to come on here and state that you are not donating.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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June 9th, 2014 at 1:29:00 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

But I don't understand the need to come on here and state that you are not donating.



I'm pretty sure that's the point of the poll/thread.
Beardgoat
Beardgoat
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June 9th, 2014 at 1:31:14 PM permalink
I'm pretty sure his stance is in reference to the Las Vegas police ambush thread. Like it or not, allowing people to post things like that will have some consequences
jml24
jml24
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June 9th, 2014 at 1:45:28 PM permalink
Thinking of all the valuable info I have received from the odds site and entertaining/useful discussions I have read here, I made a donation. I think the donation revenue potential from regular forum participants is probably small because of the small numbers of them. I suspect the odds site has very high traffic based on the fact that I meet people all the time in casinos who mention the site. It is hard to believe there is not a way to convert that much traffic into revenue sufficient for the wiz to maintain a decent lifestyle. The quality and quantity of information on the odds site is outstanding.
aceofspades
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June 9th, 2014 at 1:47:40 PM permalink
Quote: jml24

Thinking of all the valuable info I have received from the odds site and entertaining/useful discussions I have read here, I made a donation. I think the donation revenue potential from regular forum participants is probably small because of the small numbers of them. I suspect the odds site has very high traffic based on the fact that I meet people all the time in casinos who mention the site. It is hard to believe there is not a way to convert that much traffic into revenue sufficient for the wiz to maintain a decent lifestyle. The quality and quantity of information on the odds site is outstanding.




I have heard plenty of pit personnel misquote the WOO site - so I know there are people reading it
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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June 9th, 2014 at 1:51:12 PM permalink
Quote: jml24

Thinking of all the valuable info I have received from the odds site and entertaining/useful discussions I have read here, I made a donation. I think the donation revenue potential from regular forum participants is probably small because of the small numbers of them. I suspect the odds site has very high traffic based on the fact that I meet people all the time in casinos who mention the site. It is hard to believe there is not a way to convert that much traffic into revenue sufficient for the wiz to maintain a decent lifestyle. The quality and quantity of information on the odds site is outstanding.



The way to monetize it is through ads. I'm not a big fan of donation-supported sites. I think that the key is to use ads that are not intrusive. People who really have a problem with them will just block them.

I am not really sure about the idea that individual advertisers need to be vetted. Just because an ad shows up on a web site, it doesn't mean that the owner of the site endorses the product. If I see an ad for corn flakes on NBC, it does not mean that the owners of NBC love corn flakes -- I think that most people understand that.
thecesspit
thecesspit
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June 9th, 2014 at 1:58:35 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

The way to monetize it is through ads. I'm not a big fan of donation-supported sites. I think that the key is to use ads that are not intrusive. People who really have a problem with them will just block them.

I am not really sure about the idea that individual advertisers need to be vetted. Just because an ad shows up on a web site, it doesn't mean that the owner of the site endorses the product. If I see an ad for corn flakes on NBC, it does not mean that the owners of NBC love corn flakes -- I think that most people understand that.



Personal promotion of vetted products by trusted sources appears to be much more profitable than blindly showing up google ads. Especially on special interest forums and wesbites
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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June 9th, 2014 at 2:04:21 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Personal promotion of vetted products by trusted sources appears to be much more profitable than blindly showing up google ads. Especially on special interest forums and wesbites



Possibly. I haven't done any research into this. Do you have data?

I could see that for something like online casino ads, where everyone is worried about getting ripped off. But what about B&M hotel/casino ads? Let's face it, a stay at Aria is not that different than a stay at Wynn.
thecesspit
thecesspit
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June 9th, 2014 at 2:10:06 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Possibly. I haven't done any research into this. Do you have data?



Anecdotal based on several blogs/feeds I read.

Quote:

I could see that for something like online casino ads, where everyone is worried about getting ripped off. But what about B&M hotel/casino ads? Let's face it, a stay at Aria is not that different than a stay at Wynn.



If you have a choice between the two, and The Wizard said 'hey, I like the Aria, they gave me a night there and were really cool about me working out the house edge on a new game', it might swing you to stay at the Aria over the Wynn. Might. It depends how price sensitive shoppers are for hotel rooms, and I suspect highly is possible.

I also suspect the opinions of the regular forum posters are far more keenly held than the opinions of those that read the Wizard of Odds pages and don't post here.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
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June 9th, 2014 at 2:25:21 PM permalink
I apologize if anyone was offended by my statements. Dont let any resentment towards me impact your decision to donate towards the wizard though. He was simply trying to be fair.
beerseason
beerseason
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June 9th, 2014 at 3:19:11 PM permalink
I'm not really wanting to but into the wizards business so if I have I apologize. But when I go to the WoO WoV site I go there for 4 things, ask the wizard, gambling stories (fictional ones) that have been wrote, reviews, and strategies/pay tables. I know they are hard to constantly update, but when I know nothing has been updated why do I need to check? Another is when I get pay tables and strategies if there was a handy PDF file I could download, print, or bookmark, that would be great. And if there was advertising on those PDF files I wouldn't care and it could also help the wizard out monetarily.
kmumf
kmumf
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June 9th, 2014 at 3:34:16 PM permalink
I just paypaled away I've been lurking your sites for years so I do owe something. I did by a copy of your book a few years ago as well.
Good luck wiz.
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
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June 9th, 2014 at 5:39:38 PM permalink
Glad to help, I know these sites aren't powered by sunshine. Just posting to keep this thread floating on the most recent list.
[Edit]Used PayPal without a hitch. Those of you having problems might want to log on to the PayPal site and be sure your information is up to date, such as new credit card expiration dates.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
Croupier
Croupier
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June 9th, 2014 at 5:46:19 PM permalink
I tried to donate, but paypal wouldnt let me. Ill see if I can get it sorted soon.
[This space is intentionally left blank]
ShineyShine
ShineyShine
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June 9th, 2014 at 6:32:46 PM permalink
I havn't been here long, but have spent a lot of time going through the archives, and it has been an excellent research tool for me, and hopefully will continue to be. I'm happy to make a small donation. The quality of information on offer here is top drawer, from some very experienced and knowledgable posters from all aspects of the gaming world. I assume there would be a significant drop in that quality if it had to be sold.

Tried to pay through PayPal, but have to wait a few days to confirm my card, will do so once that is sorted.

Good luck.
MrV
MrV
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June 9th, 2014 at 8:21:11 PM permalink
I wonder what the actual out of pocket monthly costs are to maintain a couple of sites?
"What, me worry?"
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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June 9th, 2014 at 8:52:46 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

I wonder what the actual out of pocket monthly costs are to maintain a couple of sites?



I think it would be fair to compare it to Hal Holbrooke's Mark Twain show, when he was touring it, or Leonard Nimoy's Vincent (which I actually worked, so I can speak first-hand). From an audience perspective, you sat down in a theater, one guy came out, he talked for 2 hours with a short break, and then you left. Why'd you have to pay $50/head for this? (And that was 30 years ago). Besides Mr. Nimoy's salary, there was:

3 lighting crew
6 stage crew
2 costumers
1 stage manager
1 house manager
4 box office employees

That was just during the show, in a small regional theater. Overhead:

2 Semi trucks with drivers.
4 Roadies.
Costume designer and seamstresses.
Scenic designer, technical director, construction crew.
Property master, props manufacturer.
Materials for props, sets, lighting, sound.
Sound designer, Lighting designer.
Director.
Theater rent (encompassing electricity, janitorial, etc.)

All that for 1 guy on stage. Tip of the iceberg.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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June 9th, 2014 at 9:06:23 PM permalink
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

Glad to help, I know these sites aren't powered by sunshine. Just posting to keep this thread floating on the most recent list.
[Edit]Used PayPal without a hitch. Those of you having problems might want to log on to the PayPal site and be sure your information is up to date, such as new credit card expiration dates.


There is a legitimate problem with the PayPal link not accepting some credit cards (seems like a pretty wide swath, given the number of people who have had problems here). It did not accept my card when I tried to use it to donate to Mike, while I used it just a few days before to donate to a different cause.

It was not a big problem for me as I just used a transfer from my checking account. But something is weird; I don't know if it's because the Wiz doesn't have a verified account or it's not a business account or something. PayPal is pretty sleazy with their fees, so I am happy to pay with a bank account transfer. But, a lot of people don't link bank accounts to PayPal and only use credit cards.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
boymimbo
boymimbo
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June 9th, 2014 at 9:10:23 PM permalink
Yeah, it didn't work for me either, and I've used that card before on PayPal, so I am just going to go with the PO Box option. He paid me graciously to do reviews a few years back, and I'm going to refund him some of that.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
socks
socks
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June 9th, 2014 at 9:37:49 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

But something is weird; I don't know if it's because the Wiz doesn't have a verified account or it's not a business account or something.


Paypal is well known for their fraud detection algorithms, at least they were early on. That was the hard problem they solved that provided the barrier to entry needed to eventually create the paypal mafia on exit. Maybe those algorithms are hitting on some activity pattern + a gambling theme.
kenarman
kenarman
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June 9th, 2014 at 9:39:53 PM permalink
For some of the posters that are not sure of how Mike has handled the cash flow issue a short story of one of the few other forums I was a part of. It is (was) the top DIY alarm forum. Many different senior posters each an expert on a different brand or type of alarm product. Quality information that was valuable to the trade as well as the DIY. No ads but a list of approved and vetted suppliers.

The owner decided to cash out. Site has lost a lot of its features, no more experts, tons of really obnoxious ads, and owned by an alarm monitoring company that just pushes their own product.

This is what Mike could have done if he didn't care about his sites and this community. Support him financially if you want to and are able (or not) but stop all the comments about motives and other crap.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
Tomspur
Tomspur
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June 9th, 2014 at 9:55:43 PM permalink
Your check sir, is in the mail.....as they say :)

Apologies for not using Paypal but I don't have one of those accounts.

All the best and I hope things start looking up soon!!!
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
michael99000
michael99000
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June 9th, 2014 at 11:46:50 PM permalink
I have donated.

And I wish we could take all the posts in this thread regarding "other ideas" for the Wizard, along with all the posts from those announcing they aren't donating, and move them to their own separate thread. That would immediately become the first thread I ever block.
Tomspur
Tomspur
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June 10th, 2014 at 12:12:16 AM permalink
Quote: michael99000

I have donated.

And I wish we could take all the posts in this thread regarding "other ideas" for the Wizard, along with all the posts from those announcing they aren't donating, and move them to their own separate thread. That would immediately become the first thread I ever block.



+100
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
RS
RS
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June 10th, 2014 at 5:16:52 AM permalink
Few things that'd be cool for the donation thing:

-On donation page, show how much money has been donated.
-Perhaps have a "monthly goal" on the page and show how much has been donated for this month. The goal would be expenses minus income (ie: servers+labor costs $800/month and you're getting $300/month in advertisements....goal would be $500/month).
-Have a thing underneath someone's name (next to their posts) with how much they've donated.
-Have a private donation-only forum ($10+ ?). IMO, posts would stay more on topic.
-Perhaps enable auto-donation. For example, it could be setup so someone could donate $X/month automatically.


Two gaming forums I used to post on (they're gone now because no one plays those games anymore) had the above implementations regarding forum donations...and they got quite a bit in donations, even though most of the posters were 16-25 years old. Then again, expenses were pretty high (~ $800 for servers, $600 software development and database management, and probably $200 in miscellaneous, IIRC). Income from ads was maybe $200. Anything that wasn't covered through donations was paid out of pocket by the owner.


Something else that could be cool (not sure if it'd work though) is have charity events where people sponsor some event. For example, create a thread and say djatc is going to eat a bunch of McNuggets...then people sponsor him, saying they'll donate $5 for every 10 nuggets he eats!
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
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June 10th, 2014 at 5:32:42 AM permalink
I have read that if you have a credit card on file with your PayPal account, you cannot use the same card to pay via PayPal using the "without account" option. Maybe that was the case for some of the donation-via-PayPal failures noted in this thread.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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June 10th, 2014 at 6:07:07 AM permalink
I tried to donate using the link, but it wouldn't let me. I do not have a PayPal account, nor do I want one.
Some thoughts..... I think this thread is 100% appropriate for those that politely want to explain why they are not donating, or why they feel it is not a good idea. And equally so for all the members who express their feelings that donating is a small price to pay to keep the sites up and running.
I'll donate, solely because I know Mike and he has asked the forum for this favor. However, if I didn't know Mike, I'd be a little leery.

I haven't the slightest idea what it costs to set up a web site, what the monthly fees are to keep it up, how many man hours Mike, and whomever he hires, has to put in. I couldn't fathom a guess as to how much income comes from the previous sole advertiser... $1000 a month, $5,000 a month, $20,000 a month? How much will now be coming in from the new advertisers? My point is that the donations will come in because of Mike, not the sites. Someone just going on line and being directed to the WoO site now sees a site with advertising, thus why would they opt to donate?

When I first went on WoO and then WoV, if there was a subscription fee, I never would have joined. I think all of us who NOW would be willing to pay such a fee would eventually become a much smaller community, and less fresh blood would join than we get with the free site.
strictlyAP
strictlyAP
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June 10th, 2014 at 6:20:17 AM permalink
how bout donate 50 -100 dollars and get a square pool going like a 50-50 for the nba championsips?
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
mickeycrimm
mickeycrimm
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June 10th, 2014 at 7:03:02 AM permalink
I just read the small print with my debit cards. They cannot be used in casinos or for any other gambling activity. With a name like Wizard of Odds I figure that's why I got turned down. The funny thing is I didn't have a problem loading Bovada.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
AxelWolf
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June 10th, 2014 at 7:06:37 AM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

I just read the small print with my debit cards. They cannot be used in casinos or for any other gambling activity. With a name like Wizard of Odds I figure that's why I got turned down. The funny thing is I didn't have a problem loading Bovada.

That's because it does not show up as Bovada.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
TheBigPaybak
TheBigPaybak
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June 10th, 2014 at 8:25:39 AM permalink
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

I have read that if you have a credit card on file with your PayPal account, you cannot use the same card to pay via PayPal using the "without account" option. Maybe that was the case for some of the donation-via-PayPal failures noted in this thread.



I have a PayPal account and am still being denied and am being told to "use a different credit card". Currently the card has essentially a zero balance and allows for cash advances. I called the card and they don't even see the attempts from PayPal, so PayPal isn't even attempting the transaction.

Doing some Google searches, it's clear this isn't an isolated issue when making donations...
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
strictlyAP
strictlyAP
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June 10th, 2014 at 8:31:57 AM permalink
had the same issue
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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June 10th, 2014 at 8:38:17 AM permalink
Quote: RS


-Perhaps enable auto-donation. For example, it could be setup so someone could donate $X/month automatically.


This is already possible via PayPal. There is a checkbox for "Make this a recurring monthly donation."
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
TheBigPaybak
TheBigPaybak
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June 10th, 2014 at 9:14:53 AM permalink
Quote: strictlyAP

had the same issue



I called PayPal and they referred me back to the bank. I tried three different cards all with the same negative result. I tried through my standard account and as a "guest". I tried with different amounts. I called the credit card company and they insist they aren't seeing anything being declined.

Argh....

...has anyone been able to successfully pay via PayPal, when their PayPal account is just tied to a credit card, not a bank, and doesn't have money in the account to cover the donation?
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
Boz
Boz
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June 10th, 2014 at 9:46:42 AM permalink
Having the same issue. Tried 2 CC's and a Debit. Called PayPal and they said it is on the recipients end. I notified The Wizard.
HowMany
HowMany
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June 10th, 2014 at 10:05:47 AM permalink
At least I learned one thing from this thread....

PAY PAL SUCKS!!!!!!!
kenarman
kenarman
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June 10th, 2014 at 10:16:03 AM permalink
Quote: HowMany

At least I learned one thing from this thread....

PAY PAL SUCKS!!!!!!!



+1 quit using them years ago
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
chickenman
chickenman
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June 10th, 2014 at 10:16:18 AM permalink
Quote: HowMany

At least I learned one thing from this thread....

PAY PAL SUCKS!!!!!!!

+100 but already knew that
Zcore13
Zcore13
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June 10th, 2014 at 10:28:35 AM permalink
Kickstarter would have been a great option. Offer levels of donation. Higher donations get some exclusive content or lunch with the Wiz or something cool. Also would have brought a TON of new visitors to the site.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
mickeycrimm
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June 10th, 2014 at 12:30:08 PM permalink
The check is in the mail.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
kubikulann
kubikulann
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June 10th, 2014 at 3:28:28 PM permalink
Quote: TheBigPaybak

I have a PayPal account and am still being denied and am being told to "use a different credit card". Currently the card has essentially a zero balance and allows for cash advances.

Had the same message. I called PayPal hotline and they very kindly checked. They had accepted my setting up an account. They told me it was my bank who refused the transaction. So I'll have it sorted out there (and threaten to switch banks if they don't. I don't know why but since the bank manager was informed that I won the lottery he is much more helpful...)
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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June 10th, 2014 at 5:21:04 PM permalink
There are very few people out there who try to help others level the playing field at a Casino. The Wiz is one ! AND there may not be anyone who has done as much for free.

WoO is very helpful and WoV is very entertaining. So for all those reasons, my check is in the mail (as soon as I find a stamp !).
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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June 10th, 2014 at 6:07:38 PM permalink
Quote: TheBigPaybak


...has anyone been able to successfully pay via PayPal, when their PayPal account is just tied to a credit card, not a bank, and doesn't have money in the account to cover the donation?



I thought it successfully took a donation from my CC. But, looking again, it did it from the linked (and not valid) checking account. That's NOT what I set up on the donation screen.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
TheBigPaybak
TheBigPaybak
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June 10th, 2014 at 6:13:41 PM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Had the same message. I called PayPal hotline and they very kindly checked. They had accepted my setting up an account. They told me it was my bank who refused the transaction. So I'll have it sorted out there (and threaten to switch banks if they don't. I don't know why but since the bank manager was informed that I won the lottery he is much more helpful...)



I did a donation on an alternate site and it worked fine, so I tend to think there may be a problem with the way Mike's account is setup in someway. The best thing is probably for him to call PayPal to try and figure it out: I've informed him of such.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
ncfatcat
ncfatcat
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June 10th, 2014 at 8:53:09 PM permalink
Quote: HowMany

At least I learned one thing from this thread....

PAY PAL SUCKS!!!!!!!


What do you expect? They're owned by eBay!
Gambling is a metaphor for life. Hang around long enough and it's all gone.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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June 13th, 2014 at 10:35:43 AM permalink
I've now tried using 4 different credit cards on 3 different days. I've been able to use these cards without difficulty all over the world, and on a variety of internet sites. I think it reflects poorly on the entire site that a simple credit card transaction for someone trying to make an optional donation cannot be handled. I would suggest that a direct credit card acceptance be an option, rather than processing through a paypal site. I am pretty sure for a few percent anyone can now accept credit cards. As a loyal follower, I'll use another option eventually to help the Wiz out, but a casual user might not be as persistent.
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