Vegas shutting down again rumor
Quote: TDVegas
Then....it potentially becomes everyone’s problem. Not saying it will happen, but there could be a greater good than just “let it be”.
Exactly! This is exactly what I mean when I say "we are all in this together". This isn't case where if someone doesn't want to wear a motorcycle helmet it is their choice to put themselves at greater risk, while it doesn't really effect anyone else. With this virus people choosing to put themselves at risk because they want to have a drink at a bar or whatever puts everyone else at risk, because of the increased spread.
We have a pretty significant amount of hospitals and hospital beds here in Vegas for our population, compared to some other places, but you don't want hospitals to be over run. That is when people can't get normal care and more people start dying that didn't need to. What if my mother is in a car accident and can't get care because the hospitals are over run with covid cases? or someone has a heart attack or stroke that normally wouldn't be fatal, but turns out to be because there is no room or care available. WE are all in this together! When did Americans become so selfish and self centered? :(
Quote: Mission146If the hospitals become overwhelmed, then people would have to come up with an alternative care place or they would simply have to say that they cannot admit anyone else.
Really? Other people doing what they want impacts me where I followed the rules and now I can’t get into the hospital....and the answer is “too bad, go find an alternative”...? Really?
Quote: kewljExactly! This is exactly what I mean when I say "we are all in this together". This isn't case where if someone doesn't want to wear a motorcycle helmet it is their choice to put themselves at greater risk, while it doesn't really effect anyone else. With this virus people choosing to put themselves at risk because they want to have a drink at a bar or whatever puts everyone else at risk, because of the increased spread.
Sure it does. If you hit a motorcyclist who doesn't die, but would have died had he not been wearing a helmet, it's the difference between whether or not you have to live with the fact that you accidentally killed a person.
Quote:We have a pretty significant amount of hospitals and hospital beds here in Vegas for our population, compared to some other places, but you don't want hospitals to be over run. That is when people can't get normal care and more people start dying that didn't need to. What if my mother is in a car accident and can't get care because the hospitals are over run with covid cases? or someone has a heart attack or stroke that normally wouldn't be fatal, but turns out to be because there is no room or care available. WE are all in this together! When did Americans become so selfish and self centered? :(
If those things start happening on a massive scale, then hopefully people will be inclined to behave more responsibly next time if something like this ever happens again.
Quote: TDVegasReally? Other people doing what they want impacts me where I followed the rules and now I can’t get into the hospital....and the answer is “too bad, go find an alternative”...? Really?
Bad things do occasionally happen to those who were doing everything right. Good things occasionally happen to those who were doing things the wrong way. You can't win them all.
If it makes you feel better, life comes with a 100% probability of eventual death, one way or another.
Quote: Mission146
If those things start happening on a massive scale, then hopefully people will be inclined to behave more responsibly next time if something like this ever happens again.
NEXT TIME??? Really??
Quote: kewljNEXT TIME??? Really??
Yes. Do you assume that there will never be a viral pandemic again as long as we live?
Quote: Mission146Bad things do occasionally happen to those who were doing everything right. Good things occasionally happen to those who were doing things the wrong way. You can't win them all.
If it makes you feel better, life comes with a 100% probability of eventual death, one way or another.
Wow. Ok.
Quote: Mission146Yes. Do you assume that there will never be a viral pandemic again as long as we live?
Not for those that die during this one, that might not have HAD to die. THEY don't get a second chance.
Quote: Mission146
If it makes you feel better, life comes with a 100% probability of eventual death, one way or another.
Exactly! The only outcome is death so why does everybody care whether it is today, tomorrow, or 10 years. The result is the same.
Quote: kewljNot for those that die during this one, that might not have HAD to die. THEY don't get a second chance.
If you are concerned about second chances, then I encourage you to study those philosophies that believe in reincarnation (in any form) and see if there is one you like.
People die who didn't, 'Have,' to die all the time. We do that intentionally with wars. There's also no such thing as, 'Preventing,' a death. Death cannot be prevented. You can delay it, though, and I encourage people to take the actions that may delay death for themselves and for others...but I wouldn't force them to do it.
Quote: DRichExactly! The only outcome is death so why does everybody care whether it is today, tomorrow, or 10 years. The result is the same.
Yup. You just live your life, do what you think is best and whatever is going to happen is going to happen.
Quote: Mission146Yup. You just live your life, do what you think is best and whatever is going to happen is going to happen.
So let's say people in your community decide to have a big get-together and do what they damn well please. That is their right according to you. 3 weeks later your community is in the midst of a severe outbreak, hospital beds full, doctors pressed long past limits.
Now your kid is out riding his bike and gets hit by a car. You get him to the hospital but there are no beds and no doctors available to care for him. Your kid bleeds out. Let's see if you have this "Que Sara Sara" attitude then Mr Mission.
Quote: kewljSo let's say people in your community decide to have a big get-together and do what they damn well please. That is their right according to you. 3 weeks later your community is in the midst of a severe outbreak, hospital beds full, doctors pressed long past limits.
Now your kid is out riding his bike and gets hit by a car. You get him to the hospital but there are no beds and no doctors available to care for him. Your kid bleeds out. Let's see if you have this "Que Sara Sara" attitude then Mr Mission.
I will as none of these things are within the direct scope of my control, nor should they be. I am not a perfect person who has done everything well in life, in fact, I have done most things pretty poorly. In order to give orders, I would first have to consider myself as being above other people, which I don't. I do consider myself to be more intelligent than some other people, as well as to make better decisions in some respects, but that does not impart upon me the right to try to control their actions...or to influence their actions with anything other than conversation.
Quote: kewljSo let's say people in your community decide to have a big get-together and do what they damn well please. That is their right according to you. 3 weeks later your community is in the midst of a severe outbreak, hospital beds full, doctors pressed long past limits.
Now your kid is out riding his bike and gets hit by a car. You get him to the hospital but there are no beds and no doctors available to care for him. Your kid bleeds out. Let's see if you have this "Que Sara Sara" attitude then Mr Mission.
If you knew about this party and outbreak, why did you stay in that community knowing the hospitals were full? I would think it is your responsibility to take care of your family by living in a community where the hospitals aren't full. By staying in that community you have accepted the circumstances.
Quote: kewlj
Now your kid is out riding his bike and gets hit by a car. You get him to the hospital but there are no beds and no doctors available to care for him. Your kid bleeds out. Let's see if you have this "Que Sara Sara" attitude then Mr Mission.
In my case I would feel exactly the same about it if it was my daughter, your kid, or the kid of a stranger. Personalizing a scenario like this doesn't make me feel differently about it.
Quote: DRichIn my case I would feel exactly the same about it if it was my daughter, your kid, or the kid of a stranger. Personalizing a scenario like this doesn't make me feel differently about it.
Also, this. If something is true, then it is true. If I have a position, then I have a position. If my position is different when the question is applied to me than it would be were it applied to someone else, then my position(s) would be hypocritical.
Quote: Mission146If you don't care if they close and are worried about safety, then why not just pretend they are closed and not go there...that would then completely alleviate the safety concerns you have.
No, this is an incorrect statement, unless Alan Mendelson is a complete psychotic narcissist. Pretending casinos are closed might alleviate the safety concerns Mendelson has for HIMSELF. But quite a few people do consider the safety of others when making behavioral decisions.
I think one thing that has been exposed most during the pandemic and is most surprising to me is the unmitigated self-absorbed focus of Americans. Everything is about self; people behave with huge blind spots regarding what used to be called civics when I was in grade school.
Quote: camz1969Yea, so to redirect back to the original conversation...what are the odds that Vegas will close back down soon? I'm thinking about going soon, but I don't want to get out there to some closed casinos or not enough tables/seats to get a seat quickly.
I don’t think it’s going to close back down.
If you go during the week, you will have no problem finding a seat at a table. Quite slow during the week. I find it kind of nice.
Quote: Mission146I did. I guess my point, just from my perspective, is that you're doing a greater potential danger to yourself just by being there in the first place than are a few people who are there and violating the safety rules. Were you not there, then their adherence to the safety rules would be irrelevant to you.
Again, the last line above is presumptuous in the extreme. I'm sitting in Tennessee, and whether Red Rock is adhering to rules is not at all irrelevant to me.
It's not irrelevant to me because I think it hurts people.
It's not irrelevant because it promotes spread.
What's relevant to me is not always about me.
To the extent that it IS about me, not following rules damages Las Vegas long term because I think it makes a comprehensive shutdown necessary. So that makes Las Vegas less likely to recover quickly. It makes it less appealing as a place I visit in the near future. It hurts the appeal of Las Vegas to me for years to come.
Maybe it's because I read too many Spider-Man comics in my life or maybe it's the journalism experience, but if I thought reporting violations protected people from illness, I'd report violations all day long.
And Mission, I'm not big on the free will/volition schtick. I tend to not believe in things that I prefer to be true. Virtually every social science study suggests that people overestimate their personal effect on situations and outcomes. Human beings are strongly biased towards thinking they are driving the car when they're actually surfing the waves.
Quote: camz1969Yea, so to redirect back to the original conversation...what are the odds that Vegas will close back down soon? I'm thinking about going soon, but I don't want to get out there to some closed casinos or not enough tables/seats to get a seat quickly.
It has been more than a month since the mask mandate went into effect. Cases and hospitalizations continue to run high in Nevada.
I personally do not think casinos will be forced to fully close, but other changes could certainly happen.
In my visits to the locals places, things seem busier and more crowded (this could be a result of the recent bar closures).
https://www.cdcgamingreports.com/junes-relaunch-of-gaming-in-nevada-reduces-but-doesnt-reverse-the-statewide-declines/
Looks like places outside of Las Vegas rebounded quicker in June (Reno for example). Mesquite even saw an increase for June 2020 over June 2019. Kinda makes sense with all the properties still closed in Clark County.
Quote: redietzNo, this is an incorrect statement, unless Alan Mendelson is a complete psychotic narcissist. Pretending casinos are closed might alleviate the safety concerns Mendelson has for HIMSELF. But quite a few people do consider the safety of others when making behavioral decisions.
I think one thing that has been exposed most during the pandemic and is most surprising to me is the unmitigated self-absorbed focus of Americans. Everything is about self; people behave with huge blind spots regarding what used to be called civics when I was in grade school.
If he does not go to the casinos, then he will also not be adversely impacting the safety of others in the casinos.
I agree that many Americans are individualistic rather than collectivistic.
Quote: redietz
To the extent that it IS about me, not following rules damages Las Vegas long term because I think it makes a comprehensive shutdown necessary. So that makes Las Vegas less likely to recover quickly. It makes it less appealing as a place I visit in the near future. It hurts the appeal of Las Vegas to me for years to come.
Why does it make a comprehensive shut down necessary? Why does anything make a comprehensive shut down necessary? Why could a comprehensive shutdown even theoretically be, 'Necessary?'
I have no plans to go to Antartica (no offense, scientists) because the thought of going there does not appeal to me. I do not plan to go there now, never have planned to and unless conditions drastically change--never will plan to. If the place does not appeal to you for one reason, or another, then do not go there.
Let Vegas and the casinos decide if they are concerned with making people happy now, or if they are more concerned with the future theoretical desire of someone from Tennessee to want to come there later. It's their choice to make.
Quote:Maybe it's because I read too many Spider-Man comics in my life or maybe it's the journalism experience, but if I thought reporting violations protected people from illness, I'd report violations all day long.
And Mission, I'm not big on the free will/volition schtick. I tend to not believe in things that I prefer to be true. Virtually every social science study suggests that people overestimate their personal effect on situations and outcomes. Human beings are strongly biased towards thinking they are driving the car when they're actually surfing the waves.
I basically agree with most of what you're saying, here. I guess we disagree on how relevant the concept is to the current case. Actions, even those taken by a business or a Government, do require individual human beings to undertake them at some point in the process.
I would also remind you that, in terms of the guidelines, you're talking to someone who is probably doing the things that you would want him to be doing.
Science says that masks do little, if any, to prevent SarsCov2 virus. Does it matter?
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/jon-rappoport/dear-humans-face-masks-dont-work/
Quote: petroglyphhttps://nofacemask.blogspot.com/2020/06/nomaskinfo-archive-index-page.html
Science says that masks do little, if any, to prevent SarsCov2 virus. Does it matter?
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/jon-rappoport/dear-humans-face-masks-dont-work/
I'm hesitant to immediately trust something whose title is nofacemask. Some of that content is clearly opinion or just news that isn't scientific but merely and explanation of an event. Articles about corporations disallowing or allowing masks inside doesn't sway me in any direction. Similarly, an article about someone killing someone over being asked to wear a mask reflects more on that individual's mental health or anti-maskers than anything about the benefits or issues of someone actually wearing a mask.
With that said, it's interesting to see that there is as much out there saying that masks are of little effectiveness and I'll have to read through more. It's hard though because it seems like we've also been told they are effective numerous times, so I don't blame people for being frustrated and confused.
I sincerely hope Vegas doesn't close again as I have a trip out there next month. I believe that even though we all think of our health as personal, it is to some degree a public issue and if we aren't taking necessary precautions, we will harm other people. Some see it another way. It's hard to convince people to take measures to protect others when they aren't invested in the health of others.
Quote: petroglyphhttps://nofacemask.blogspot.com/2020/06/nomaskinfo-archive-index-page.html
Science says that masks do little, if any, to prevent SarsCov2 virus. Does it matter?
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/jon-rappoport/dear-humans-face-masks-dont-work/
It's not enough for scientists to conduct a study.
The study has to be peer reviewed.
If independent scientists examine the data and come to the same conclusion it's excepted.
Otherwise it's an unsubstantiated opinion even if that opinion is by a group of scientists.
That's to make certain the trial was conducted properly etc.
On the topic of craps, I have a few comments and questions. Since the reopening I have been playing at Santa Fe, where they have been quite thorough from the entrance for the north garage to following the rules strictly yet courteously at the tables. After the governor mandated masks, even the slots were complying except for less than a handful of exceptions.Quote: AlanMendelsonLet's see if this works: (Posted June 7, 3 days after we were told it was safe to return to casinos with social distancing and 50% capacity.)
I called the Nevada Gaming Commission on Sunday and I made an official complaint against Red Rock Casino.
Shame on Red Rock Casino.
I was playing at one craps table with one other player on my side and three other players on the other side. Then a young guy walks up with SIX others in tow. This one guy takes the remaining spot at the table and his four male friends squeezed in at the table. Two gals stood behind them.
Two problems here. First non players are not supposed to be at tables or even standing close by to watch the action. Second problem was the more obvious... you cant have all those friends at the table when the maximum is three.
First, I asked a dealer to have the non players leave. The dealer said "we are not the social distancing police." What???
I asked a second dealer who said it the same. Then I called over a supervisor who said the same. Then a second supervisor a memo was sent by management that they are not the police for social distancing.
Then another supervisor came over to me to apologize. He knew I was correct.
In fact the casinos must enforce the social distancing rules set by the Nevada Gaming Commission.
By then it was too late for Red Rock. I left my chips in the rail of the table and I stepped back to use my phone. I called the NGC enforcement office in Vegas which operates 24/7.
I told the NGC officer on duty what was going on, and I told him what table I was at.
Within a half hour an NGC agent, badge and all, was at my table speaking with me. And then he went to the top manager and told him off.
Shortly after the dealers and supervisors were enforcing the rules.
I don't know if Red Rock will be fined. Fines are usually kept confidential. I'm sure they're going to get written up for violating a key rule that allowed the casinos to reopen.
The casino started a second daytime craps table on Sundays. One all tall all small and the original with the fire bet. Starting a couple of weeks ago, they doubled the minimum. Did Red Rock do something similar?
It turns out that no Boarding Pass points come from table games. And no match plays either. If Red Rock has the new stadium seating setup, are there more games than just roulette and blackjack?
The first weekend back when the casino was packed they had some $25 tables.
Suncoast has $5 and $10 craps.
I havent been to Rampart.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIf Red Rock has the new stadium seating setup, are there more games than just roulette and blackjack?
Yes. Baccarat. Bubble Craps as well.
Quote: AlanMendelson
I havent been to Rampart.
I don't think they ever re-opened? I could be wrong though.
Quote: Alan MendelsonI haven't been to Rampart
Quote: VegasriderI don't think they ever re-opened? I could be wrong though.
I keep getting daily mail from Rampart, but with contests and not offers. They do seem to have revived their $5 gimmick.
Quote: VegasriderI don't think they ever re-opened? I could be wrong though.
Pretty sure they are open.
Quote: TDVegasYes. Baccarat. Bubble Craps as well.
Red Rock has a new version of Bubble Craps. Instead of one pair of dice that everyone bets on, now you have your own individual pair of dice at your station. You play at your own pace.
No one is playing it.
Quote: AlanMendelsonRed Rock has a new version of Bubble Craps. Instead of one pair of dice that everyone bets on, now you have your own individual pair of dice at your station. You play at your own pace.
No one is playing it.
Alan, I haven't been to Red Rock since re-opening. There are supposed to have a stadium blackjack area. Do you know what that is? It is kind of a hybrid live blackjack with one live blackjack dealer and usually about 50 terminals using a TITO system. I am curious as to how that is being received and if people are playing?
Quote: kewljAlan, I haven't been to Red Rock since re-opening. There are supposed to have a stadium blackjack area. Do you know what that is? It is kind of a hybrid live blackjack with one live blackjack dealer and usually about 50 terminals using a TITO system. I am curious as to how that is being received and if people are playing?
I was invited to play it as a test group. Live dealer. They had 30 days to test it.
The 30 days has passed so I think it stays. Let me get my Facebook post on it.
From Facebook:
Red Rock casino has installed something that's been referred to as "stadium gaming." There is roulette and there's blackjack. Here's how it works:
Dealers are at the front of the stadium and deal their cards or spin the wheel. The action is shown on camera on a large screen TV.
The players sit at socially distanced computer terminals. Roulette players make their bets on a computer screen. Blackjack players get their cards electronically and bet on their screen.
You insert money at your terminal, so no cash or tips or chips. Terminals are easily disinfected or you can wear gloves.
To make room for the stadium gaming, table games and slots were removed.
I don't know if it's popular or not, but I just got an email asking to test it Thursday night. I will be given a dining voucher to take part in the test.
While I don't play blackjack or roulette I'm interested in taking part. I'm always interested in new gaming technology and im expecting to see more gaming like this because of Covid.
So I went to the "test session." They had $25 of real money loaded on the machine and you had your choice of playing blackjack, roulette, or baccarat following the real dealers who were at the front. I chose baccarat which is a game I don't play, made $5 bets. During the test a camera on the dealer failed and it took a technician about a half hour to replace it. I found it uncomfortable to look down at my computer screen and then look up at the big display TVs. Actually I didn't have to as what was on the big TV was also on my computer screen... but habit told me to look at the big screen.
I was warned that players didn't read their screens properly and forget to cash out, leaving money on the game.
I cashed out $27.50 and had no interest in playing this way.
Quote: AlanMendelsonRed Rock has a new version of Bubble Craps. Instead of one pair of dice that everyone bets on, now you have your own individual pair of dice at your station. You play at your own pace.
No one is playing it.
Red Rock has 2 types of electronic craps. Stadium style and personal bubble machines (Interblock). My walk thru today was....a virtual ghost town. NOTHING is getting played, tables or machines. I cannot imagine the losses. Well, yes I can...MGM reported a $1 billion loss today. Locals casinos are also getting hit.
Craps tables are generally a 4 man operation and in the grand scheme of our world today....a dinosaur from a business sense. Casinos will continue to look for opportunities to cut employees. It is their largest expense.
People want their craps table. I get that. I also get it’s close to impossible to run these tables profitably with capacity limits. I have no idea where or when this ends...but suspect we are a while away.
Vital Vegas is reporting today that the Sahara will close...permanently. September.
Quote: VegasriderWhen it comes to table games, they need to stick with the tradition. Cards, chips, dice, live dealers etc. That is the reason you go to a casino. If everything becomes electronic, no sense to even leave the house, you can just play online. Casinos need to focus more on legitimizing online gaming if they want to focus more on electronic gaming
The craps table is a dinosaur from a business sense. In any other realm, it would have been retired. 4 employees and can still run very slow. These games are kept around because slots thru-out the floor is a no-go because hubby isn’t playing slots all day with the wife. A necessary option.
Quote: billryanIf I understand this correctly, you have complained to authorities about conditions at RR being unhealthy, continue to think conditions are bad but were willing to be part of a marketing test there for a meal voucher?
That was before all the Covid stuff. Before the mandates to wear masks and before RR got lax about their enforcement.
Also this was when Vegas didnt have the Covid problems it has now.
Another thousand cases added today.
Quote: AlanMendelsonThat was before all the Covid stuff. Before the mandates to wear masks and before RR got lax about their enforcement.
Also this was when Vegas didnt have the Covid problems it has now.
Another thousand cases added today.
I still contend the mask mandate is totally half assed. You are still allowing people to smoke away without a mask, blowing covid respiratory smoke, ashes and vape smoke...all over the godamn casino floor. Dump the mask mandate or universally enforce it. Mask up. No excuses. Drink thru a straw. Ban smoking and vaping.
It’s a half assed approach...which is probably why we are continuing to get 1,000 plus new cases everyday. Those who might be spreading this virus are being given a COMPLETE PASS to blow covid smoke thruout the casino environment. Throw in the ash and vapor particles...well, you got another 1,000 cases today.
Until someone can explain to me how there is no hypocrisy in this “plan” by Gaming control and Governor....My point stands. A good 20-25% on the casino floor are being exempt from spreading the virus.
Might as well go back to mask optional...because those potentially spreading the virus are mask exempt anyway. We aren’t talking breathing here...we are talking blowing. Exempt.
I don't play on full tables, not for years. I plan and play when I am the only player or up to at the most 4 other players. I'm there to throw, I don't want to wait for my turn, so...In my opinion, a great craps game can be played on a smaller table with just one dealer who does the stick, pays and supervises himself under the watchful eye in the sky.Quote: TDVegasRed Rock has 2 types of electronic craps. Stadium style and personal bubble machines (Interblock). My walk thru today was....a virtual ghost town. NOTHING is getting played, tables or machines. I cannot imagine the losses. Well, yes I can...MGM reported a $1 billion loss today. Locals casinos are also getting hit.
Craps tables are generally a 4 man operation and in the grand scheme of our world today....a dinosaur from a business sense. Casinos will continue to look for opportunities to cut employees. It is their largest expense.
People want their craps table. I get that. I also get it’s close to impossible to run these tables profitably with capacity limits. I have no idea where or when this ends...but suspect we are a while away.
Vital Vegas is reporting today that the Sahara will close...permanently. September.
That's why I liked playing at either the Nugget in Laughlin or the Pioneer. They had a really nice 10 footer, that during the day only had one dealer. Great games for a couple o friends or so. Don't need no aircraft carrier's these days.
https://www.fox5vegas.com/coronavirus/sahara-las-vegas-says-rumor-about-property-closing-is-completely-false/article_e49f1fe2-d2b5-11ea-b6c4-b7bb1b13a747.html
Quote: ChumpChangeIf I can play Baccarat with $5 bets, that would get me in the game, because the local tables have a $25 or $50 minimum even though most people would bet $20 or $40 on Banker for the vig split. What are the maximum bets? Is there a tax form for each $600 bet that pays $1200, or $1200 bet that pays $2400? I might have to max my bets at $550 or $1,100. What's the max cash-out? Does the machine eject a TITO at $3,000 and tell you to find a real table? I suspect these stadiums games are the future, but Bingo would be more boring.
Yes, if you are playing on a machine in the U.S. and the payout is $1200 or more you will get a W2G.
Quote: USpapergamesCan someone help me? I just want to post my own forum questions but I don't know how and it's frustrating.
I responded to this in the D'Alembert thread.
Quote: DRichYes, if you are playing on a machine in the U.S. and the payout is $1200 or more you will get a W2G.
That's not correct in my experience.
Not sure how it works everywhere but in NY you get a voucher only good at the cashier but she can tell if you actually won over $1200.
For example if you wagered $1400 on Banker in Baccarat and got a tie you would receive a jackpot voucher for $1400 but not a W2G when cashing it
