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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 8th, 2012 at 7:29:47 PM permalink
Buzz -
I agree with most of what you said, but must take exception to this comment:
Quote: buzzpaff

" Come on Now! Come on. You voted this game -35. Tell me why " Sort of like having the judges
of a beauty contest, face proud parents, and make them say why their daughter was not pretty enough to be in the top 10.



When family and friends ask what the people in Vegas thought of my game, I tell them:

"They liked it enough to tell me exactly why it sucks. Now I can fix it...."
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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May 8th, 2012 at 7:37:57 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Buzz -
I agree with most of what you said, but must take exception to this comment:


When family and friends ask what the people in Vegas thought of my game, I tell them:

"They liked it enough to tell me exactly why it sucks. Now I can fix it...."



Bingo!
Dan.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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May 8th, 2012 at 7:55:57 PM permalink
Evidently I did not express myself well. I could see the evaluators were uncomfortable. I di not mean the game inventors were adverse to feedback. Quite the opposite, But what were there, about 15 or 20 comments . 14 games times the ten or 12 evaluators seems a little light. My feedback was 2 sentences. Perhaps at the next seesion, the inventors could be sent to a penalty box while the evaluators filled out the standard Focus evaluation form. Strongly Agree, Agree , Diasgree, strongly disagree, etc. Sure this forum could provide sample questions Were the rules easily Understood ? Did you think having to make 3 bets to play was fair ?

If that had been done each inventor could have left with a envelope full of feedback. 12 or 13 Strongly Disagrees with rules were easy
to understand would be more helpful than -20 and 2 sentences.

F ollow U p Dan
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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May 8th, 2012 at 8:01:07 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

But what were there, about 15 or 20 comments .



You're assuming the judges knew what they were doing.
Lack of feedback speaks volumes about their qualifications
to judge.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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May 8th, 2012 at 8:12:26 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Evidently I did not express myself well. I could see the evaluators were uncomfortable. I di not mean the game inventors were adverse to feedback. Quite the opposite, But what were there, about 15 or 20 comments . 14 games times the ten or 12 evaluators seems a little light. My feedback was 2 sentences. Perhaps at the next seesion, the inventors could be sent to a penalty box while the evaluators filled out the standard Focus evaluation form. Strongly Agree, Agree , Diasgree, strongly disagree, etc. Sure this forum could provide sample questions Were the rules easily Understood ? Did you think having to make 3 bets to play was fair ?

If that had been done each inventor could have left with a envelope full of feedback. 12 or 13 Strongly Disagrees with rules were easy
to understand would be more helpful than -20 and 2 sentences.

F ollow U p Dan



I would enjoy playing...(SA/A/N/D/SD)...WHY?
I would enjoy dealing...(SA/A/N/D/SD)...WHY?
I would recommend this game to friends...(SA/A/N/D/SD)...WHY?
The game is easy to understand...((SA/A/N/D/SD)...WHY?
The amount of money at risk in each round is...(too much, too little, about right)...WHY?
The speed of play is...(too fast, too slow, about right)...WHY?
The feature I most liked was...(free form)
The feature I most disliked was...(free form)
The changes I would recommend are...(free form)
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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May 8th, 2012 at 8:15:35 PM permalink
EXACTLY !!
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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May 8th, 2012 at 8:20:28 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Evidently I did not express myself well. I could see the evaluators were uncomfortable.


They should NOT have been that way as professional judges and evaluators. A lot of their tallies were off the mark on the new games. One of my strident points.


Quote: busspaff

I did not mean the game inventors were adverse to feedback.


We absolutely cannot be; that is what we want and need to succeed.
Quote: Buzzpaff

Quite the opposite, But what were there, about 15 or 20 comments . 14 games times the ten or 12 evaluators seems a little light. My feedback was 2 sentences.


We absolutely needed much more feedback; might not have been in SHFL's interest to provide, if not signing.. A GOOD game designer gets a full report from a smirk OR a grimmace from a pro dealer playing on his game.

Quote: Buzzpaff

Perhaps at the next seesion, the inventors could be sent to a penalty box while the evaluators filled out the standard Focus evaluation form. Strongly Agree, Agree , Diasgree, strongly disagree, etc. Sure this forum could provide sample questions Were the rules easily Understood ? Did you think having to make 3 bets to play was fair ?


Would make the event heavily laddened.

Quote: Buzzpaff

If that had been done each inventor could have left with a envelope full of feedback. 12 or 13 Strongly Disagrees with rules were easy
to understand would be more helpful than -20 and 2 sentences.

F ollow U p Dan



My follow-up:
1. Shufflemaster did an outragiously brave and novel act - even revolutionary - in doing this. They get the credit, even if Roger feels it is punishment. As time passes, he'll see it was fine and brilliant, opening up the industry to some "Linux" type things. Very admirable. There were initially punished for it, but can reap massive rewards if followed up correctly. Game designers could have been spoon-feed some answers, true, but you had to watch and respond to the judges at your table. I am a veteran casino dice and card dealer, so I was able to do that. Not fair - very true. You have Roger's email address.
2. On the initial reactions from the event: I stated that Mike and Stacy were pleased; and they were.
3. All the others in the room did seem to be depressed and a little burned by it at the time. They were indeed. I was neutral, I had a lot of games out, as did Geoff (Switch), who was absent.
4. Best intro to this particular industry, for all its plus and minuses, it was absolutely spot-on, faults and all! We exist in the table-game gaming industry as a VERY YOUNG, rude, perverse, wild-eyed, cut-throat type of thing, - as NEW GAME DESIGN is only 20- years old. Before us, there was just plain-Jane Blackjack, Craps and Roulette - and that was boring IT - not improved upon through the 1980's! I cannot imaging a casino pit WITHOUT Ultimate Texas Hold 'em from Shufflemaster, three Card Poker from Shufflemaster, and pai Gow Poker, from the public doamin from California. GOD BLESS game designers for us gamblers!
Neither Sufflemaster or DEQ existed 25 years ago. Game design is a BRAND-New industry subset of gaming that made the gaming industry a lot more than just plain craps and Blackjack - as it was 20 or 30 years ago. We have our problems and growing pains, okay?

My take on the events are simple:
I stated that Mike and Stacy were pleased with their results; and they were. They did surprising well.
All the others in the room did seem to be depressed and a little burned by it at the time. this is TRUE! I said so, and it WAS a let down at the time, for many who tranveled thousands of miles and spend fourtunes on a dream in this young industry.
It was painful to watch at the time, and I felt bad - then. It was also the best intro to the young game design industry imanginable - and it came from Shufflemaster. It was a baptismal by fire, as a young industry always is. Better to work on a new game design and take years to pass or fail, then to spend your life watching old movies on cable eating Dorito's as a useless couch potato - which is how many of you otherwise would have spent your time otherwise! If I may again use the workd "ALL" for BUZZPAFF - ALL of the men involved in this effort stepped up to the plate like fucking men. We are all proud, - no apologies or obsessing.
People are now fine with it, so now great.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Switch
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
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May 8th, 2012 at 8:21:11 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

You're assuming the judges knew what they were doing.
Lack of feedback speaks volumes about their qualifications
to judge.



It looks as though I will be a judge at SHFL Group 2 and will be happy to supply detailed feedback to any inventor that requests it. I'd like to think that I can use my past experiences to determine the pro's and con's of a new game.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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May 8th, 2012 at 8:26:52 PM permalink
I still feel incredibly lucky to have attended. My criticism about the feedback was meant as constructive criticism.
No more and no less. And the fact that Sheriff Roger is willing to put my name in the hat for the next Focus
Group, proves he has balls bigger than King Kong !
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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May 8th, 2012 at 8:39:00 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan


People are now fine with it, so now great.



People are all fine with it because a better
and improved event is coming very shortly.
Thats the best move Roger has made, not
this other stuff you're going on about.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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