We're off to see The Wizard

This is a continuation from the thread "POLL: Provional patents - DYI for game inventors"
specifically following marty's discussions about his new gaming systems...

To PaiGow Dan: I waited until I had something before I started talking about selling it. I’m just about ready right now. I plan on selling them as boxes, not as software distributions. Each kit comes with a PC fully configured, ready to plug in and go. The idea is to hang whatever touch-screen boxes you want off an IP intra-net, if you’re smart, it’ll be a hard-wired one.

Here is a long but funny true story about meting the Wizard. He never knew any of this was going on...

This will put a geek
To Sleep!

Chapter 1: The past 9 weeks...

THIS IS A LONG, DRAWN OUT, BUT SOMEWHAT HUMEROUS ACCOUNT OF THE PAST 9 WEEKS, ALL TRUE!

I tried to contact The Wizard for the past 3 years, but kept missing him at G2e. He didn’t want to load any stray software and since I haven’t bothered to make an ASP for my demo programs and hang it off the web, he never saw them.

I’m a strange guy. I never had the strategy testing tool done, and my cousin Larry (a big craps lover) tells me about Tunica having free vigs - you don’t pay unless the bet wins. I knew about those, and BTW, Tunica by far has the best payouts of any craps game PERIOD. If Vegas only knew about Tunica... Anyway, he tells me they can use them for buy lay bets as well.

And, although you wouldn’t guess it by my nasty post on idiots who think they can create winning strategies, this sparked my interest. This was oh, early last November. I created a website dedicated to describing strategies and did this nifty write-up on it and posted it on THIS website.


http://spikersystems.com/FlashNet_Pointer/www/downloads/SpikerSystems/e-Gamers/AAA_Information/GamingStrategies/index.htm


Then, because I don’t like doing the specific case of anything, I like digging down and figuring out what the process is and working forward from there, I decided to create the strategy processor that I wound up calling TheBetMaker, to follow TheRamdomizer ad TheRepeater which I already have implemented.

Then, I went on a coding TERROR, I am not kidding you, 20 hours a day, I slept on the floor next to the box and lived on grits and Pepsi (with crushed ice). Larry had to tear me away from the keyboards to make our Christmas Eve flight into Vegas.

We rented a car and drove all the way around the state of Nevada hitting every craps table the whole way, as planned months earlier.

But I hadn’t stopped working at all. I tried to contact The Wizard again, but still no answer. But as you might have guessed by now, that didn’t detour me from my goals. Neither did wasting 3 days trying to get my IntallSheild (that I wrote back in 1998 before they had Windows XP or 64-bit laptops) to work in the protected space under program files (win 32), which I didn’t even know existed on Windows 7.

Larry was thinking about craps and women, I was thinking about showing ten years of hard work to The Wizard. In Reno I decided to chuck the laptop and get another box. I figured I needed a 32 bit box to overcome some of the install problems. I tried loading another laptop with a copy of windows 2000 I keep up on the web for such emergencies. Another 12 hours later in the Harrah’s Hotel, that box crapped out on me, and I still can’t get it to work (bad network card, I guess).

I was just about to give up, but next day, we were talking to Mark, a carps dealer at Boomtown Casino on the way out to drive around lake Tahoe, and he said he knew The Wizard. He said he would contact him and get me his number the next day!

This kindled some new hope, and so next I went through the Reno pawn stores looking for boxes. I found the coolest pawn shop, and made a strange deal with the owner… I told him I would pay full price today, but if I couldn’t get my software to work on it, I could bring I back the next day. He agreed. I walked the box back up to our room and went to work. It loaded OK… the 32 bit hardware was the ticket for finding (what apparently now is the old) program files folder. Whoever came up with the idea if having spaces in the name “program files” should be burned alive on top of a mountain of green-bar.

I had to manually tweek some registry entries to get it to fly. By 4:00 A.M. I got it to fully load and got it to start via some manual procedures I wrote to kick it off under Vista (another known problem).

But then, to my horror, the stupid screen was too small to see a critical part of the strategy program window. Larry was asleep, only to be wakened every 10 minutes with the continuous sounds of the vista re-boot theme (did you know those are written by Brian Eno, a former member of Roxy Music?).

I tried to get a copy of VB from my website, but the archive was corrupt. So without buying a new copy of VB, I couldn’t make any changes to the form to get it to fit the stupid screen.

Next idea: hardware-upgrade the box to get a better graphics card. I waited until 5:00 AM to be first in line to call the Geek Squad at Best Buy. I told them specifically the model of the box (a little slim-line HP) and scheduled replacing the video card first thing in the morning, when I dragged Larry all the way across town before enjoying our comp’ed breakfast. We spent 4 hours finding the damned place and waiting in the line with the Christmas “twelve o-clock flashers”, only to find out that the Geek Squad is worthless.. they don’t make a card for that model box at all, the power supply would be too small if they did, and not only that, THEY DO NOT SELL ANY 32 BIT BOXES ANY MORE AT ALL. Did you know that?

I got back into the car in the parking lot and blew another gasket. Larry was really sick of hearing me talk about getting my invention to load. We drove out to Boomtown to see Mark, the dealer, because I still hadn’t heard from The Wizard. He gave me some kind of B.S. story, and we think he was B.S.-ing about knowing the Wizard too. We ate a pastrami sandwich and left Boomtown, back to square –1.

I went back to the pawn shop with my heart in my throat. I hooked the box back up and tuned it on to show them that it wasn’t harmed. It hooked it up to one of the screens they had on display, and to my surprise, I could see the bottom of the program window!! The little screen that came with the box apparently had LIMITED the max resolution. The on-board card did have just enough resolution to show all of my programs!

I was freaked out. I started jumping up and down in the pawn shop. The cool, cool owner dude swung yet another deal; a straight swap of monitors. I swear I could NOT have pulled this off without them.

We drove back to Vegas via US 95, an awesome ride through the desert. I bought Larry some “trim” along the way to keep him happy. You should have seen the smile on his face.

We checked into the Flamingo Hilton, and I set up the box right away. This was next to the last day of the trip, and I STILL HAD NOT YET HEARD FROM THE WIZARD. But that still didn’t stop me. I wasn’t quite done with what I had to do to present it to him.

Now this next part is hard to believe, even for me. Its like I’m possessed or something. Probably delusional, but still, something magic is truly going on, and I’m saying this from the objective perspective of a high-paid programmer-analyst and systems designer who used to conduct hundreds of employee interviews and hundreds of estimates of project timelines.

In early November, Larry mentioned the Tunica strategy thing. In 5 weeks, I conceptualized and created TheBetMaker. It works exactly like a primitive version of the AutoBet facility in WinCraps. This involves what boils down to creating a virtual computer that operates in-between the sheets inside the player program.

I had to create an internal programming language for it, so any strategy a player creates can be stored on disc and recalled. I decided to call it NailsULA…. Not Another Idiotic Language, Silly, and ULA after MOD ULA, but really its after my cat Nails! Of course this involves parsing and using recursion, and my classes in theoretical computing started coming back to me in some weird mind explosion…

I know it looks crazy to work for 20 hours a day. I know it is crazy to even try doing it all. I mean, 5 weeks to program something like this? It’s all a matter of confidence. This is not the first time I have worked like this to get something programmed. I love programming more than anything else in the world. I have the great, great honor of being able to still be working with the exact same code I have been for the past 23 years, I am not kidding. And I sat there like a raving lunatic doing just that. Programming. Right up till Larry pulling me away to make the flight, I didn’t leave my workstation seat.

Here’s the thing… I created the NailsULA language but I didn’t have time to actually program it to do the Tunica simulation. I figured I had a week or so on the road to just do that (after I got the thing to load on my laptop). I didn’t count on it taking 5 1/2 days to get it to load.

So now, here it was the last night to try to get it to work. And by the way, I STILL HADN’T HEARD FROM THE WIZARD, Did that stop me? Ha, Ha, Ha!

I worked all night again. And because I couldn’t get my copy of VB and re-program anything, I had to deal with what I had, which didn’t work! It didn’t handle continuing programming steps after a conditional branching statement failed. Huh? I would have liked to use these conditional branching statements as follows: if on_comeout_roll then start_next_stack, but since I couldn’t get that to work, I fudged it and used on_come_out_roll then (steps for come-out roll), on_4_point then (steps for 4 pint), etc.

And by daylight on the very last day of our trip, I finally got the Tunica hedging strategy to actually work as advertised. I ran into some other problems as well, but created a work-around for everything.

Everything except for one last minor detail. I still hadn’t heard from The Wizard!!!

By now, Larry was absolutely sick of me working around the clock on my project. I was in a pissy mood too, not having heard back from Mike. I was explaining how I overcame the bug when Larry decided to call an old friend, and that pissed me off. I stormed out of the room and went downstairs and played some $10 craps.

An hour or so later, Larry happen up to the same table, but didn’t se me. We played for 10 minutes until he did see me, and he shouts out “Marty … HE CALLED” !! The dice suddenly went crazy, and the next 2 shooters rolled 5-point Fire-bets back-to-back. We both won a couple of hundred right then and there.

I ran up to the room and called The Wizard…finally.. the elusive PHONE NUMBER… My first time to speak with him.

He says, “oh, sorry I have made other plans”. I say, “OK, well, I would like to leave you this box, since you don’t want to load my software.” He says, ‘I don’t want to take your box, I don’t want to commit myself to anything”. I’m like, “hey its no big deal, I understand..”

Then after a pause, he says “Well, listen, I’ll be at the Red Rock Casino tonight to watch a movie. It lets out at about 9:30. If you want, I can meet with you, but my wife will be in tow, so I cant spend any more than 15 minutes..” “ I’m like “that will be fine, sir”.

I run down and tell Larry about it. Larry lends me a clean pair of pants and a sweater (my stuff was all dirty). I shave, brush teeth, make myself presentable. Larry does a dry walk-though of my presentation with me. We get to the Red Rock and I find a spot with an outlet near the food court. I kick the kids off the table and get to work setting up the demo.

The Wizard appears. I was scared sh.tless. As an icebreaker, I hand him a disc golf disc with a picture of Nails on it from a tournament I sponsor every year, and it says “sponsored by SpikerSystems” right on it. “This s my cat, Nails.” This ain’t no cheap promo disc like they give out at office picnics. This is a custom Discraft Z-Comet ColorMax disc, worth at least $18 retail.

The Wizard looks at it and gets a sparkle in his eye. I ask “Do you play disc golf?” “Yes, as a matter of fact, I do!!” Wow, I didn’t know that, I been selling disc golf discs professionally of and on for the past 6 years.

We kind of hit it off, and he made me feel at ease. I thought he was going to be hard to talk to and hard to sell my ideas to, but he was really open to my presentation and liked what I was showing him. He was a really nice guy, and that means a lot to me.

He asked me what I wanted with him…. why I was showing this stuff to him. My reply, “Well, I’m ready to sell the software, but there are also a lot of things I could do with it.”, and I went on to describe my idea of having the depots of game descriptions and of strategy simulations.

Then I showed him how TheBetMaker can be programmed to run strategies and suggested that he take the box or get a copy of the software as a tool to help him validate that his theoretical calculations for a given strategy actually matches the balances obtained by empirical testing. I showed him TheBetMaker’s debug mode stepping thought the “program” and running the strategy right in front of him. His eyes twinkled again.

The Wizard had to get going, but before he did, he suggested that perhaps he can “throw some business my way”, he went on to describe how a lot of people are asking him to analyze various strategies for payoff potentials, but that it’s beneath him, at least for simple games like craps and roulette. “Do you think this tool can be used to help these guys?” “Heck, yes.”

Just then, Larry walked up and met the Wizard, who tells him that he moved out to Vegas to be near the disc golf course. BTW, other than programming, I love nothing more than disc golf. He said goodbye and promised to keep in touch via the website.


“How did it go?” My good cousin Larry asked me. Great, I replied. Great.

Talk about having all the pieces fall into place!!!!



The Wizard invited me to join the forum on his web site WizrdOfVegas.com, where I’ve been meeting a lot of game designers and math people, all of whom seem interested in my 10 years of hard work.. finally… it is finally starting to pay off.. thanks to The Wizard, my cousin Larry, and the owner of a Reno Pawn shop.

Quote: discflicker

The Wizard had to get going, but before he did, he suggested that perhaps he can “throw some business my way”, he went on to describe how a lot of people are asking him to analyze various strategies for payoff potentials, but that it’s beneath him, at least for simple games like craps and roulette. “Do you think this tool can be used to help these guys?” “Heck, yes.”

Is this spam? I didn't think the Wiz ever endorsed anything.

Ask him yourself.

marty

Quote: EvenBob

Is this spam? I didn't think the Wiz ever endorsed anything.

I think it's plausible that the Wizard may have seen a use for such a betting calculator to evaluate bet combinations for roulette or craps. I'd think a spreadsheet would be simpler - that's what I use - but that's beside the point.

However, I cannot imagine the Wizard using the phrase "heck, yes" in response to the question that was posed.

Quote: discflicker

To PaiGow Dan: I waited until I had something before I started talking about selling it. I’m just about ready right now. I plan on selling them as boxes, not as software distributions. Each kit comes with a PC fully configured, ready to plug in and go. The idea is to hang whatever touch-screen boxes you want off an IP intra-net, if you’re smart, it’ll be a hard-wired one.

You know you need a gaming license for that, right?

Quote: discflicker

Signature: The difference between zero and the smallest possible number?

Let's see ... using the peano axioms -- the additive inverse of the successor function should do the trick to prove there is no smallest possible integer ... if by "numbers" you're using real numbers, just embed the integers in them and refer to the preceding ... for the complex numbers, they aren't well-ordered, so what are you going to do? Maybe by numbers you are referring to some other field with a linear ordering, in which case I am curious. Do tell ...

--Dorothy

Quote: MathExtremist

You know you need a gaming license for that, right?

Yes. And submit the system for gaming approval as a gaming product. Part of the joys of getting the product out there.
If you have a licensed distributor market it, you often don't need a license, but you sacrifice the lion's share of the profits.

Quote: Paigowdan

Yes. And submit the system for gaming approval as a gaming product. Part of the joys of getting the product out there.
If you have a licensed distributor market it, you often don't need a license, but you sacrifice the lion's share of the profits.

That's true for a table game, but whoever writes the code that gets onto a casino floor has to have a gaming license. If I invented a clever jackpot management system and created a software platform for it, I could either get a manufacturing license myself or I could license it to a manufacturer so they can rewrite it entirely. They could not just take the software that I wrote and put it onto a casino floor unless I already had a gaming license.
see Regulation 14.021

So is this for real or isn't it? It doesn't sound like the Wiz to me.

This is in reply to Dorthy. Where were you when I was off to see the wizard?

They say the universe started out as an infinitely small point, accompanied by a HUGE amount of energy. Imagine that at that moment, instead of MATTER suddenly appearing, gaining mass and flying away, a progression of NUMBERS expanding (actually COUNTING) away from zero and being "assigned" mass, takes place. The Universe would still work the exact same way!


Here is the short answer, which is coming from a different angle (15 pages):

http://spikersystems.com/FlashNet_Pointer/www/documents/ClosedLoopProgramming.htm


Here is the good answer, staying right along a straight line of reasoning../ (close to 200 pages):

http://spikersystems.com/FlashNet_Pointer/www/projects/Martys_World/BigBang.htm


And here is the long answer. I suggest if you start out here, if you are a scientific person (which I assume that you are), please take a first stab at it following the "science-only" links. If you really want to hear me rant, just read it cover to cover, but have some cookies and pepsi with crushed ice ready for breaks. (over 200 paes):

http://spikersystems.com/FlashNet_Pointer/www/projects/Martys_World/HTML-PerpetualLife-TheEyeOfTheOctopuss.htm



Its all free and add-free and I do NOT accpet donations!

I cherish anyones opions of these works.


thanks!

marty

yes its real. please try a download right now! its all free. call me if yiu have any trouble

marty

Personally, I think the "Is this real" question is not about the software, but about the meeting.

I.E. Did you really meet with the Wiz? Did he really think your idea had any merit?

Mind you I'm not saying you didn't have a favorable meeting. I'm suggesting that maybe it wasn't really the Wiz. Or if it was him, maybe he was just humoring you with his response.

Quote: discflicker

This is in reply to Dorthy. Where were you when I was off to see the wizard?

Probably nearby, you just didn't know it. Maybe I was behind the curtain...

This statement has nothing to do with cosmology: "The difference between zero and the smallest possible number..."; rather it assumes a "smallest possible number." If so, I want to know what that number is, not a reductive absurdity about the beginning of time. The easiest way to prove an existential is to provide an example -- so give me the algebraic structure you believe represents the universe (that's an algebraic item -- like the reals, or rationals, or integers, or complex numbers, or integers modulo p), and demonstrate that it has a partial ordering that respects the algebraic structure, then give me the smallest element of that structure.

There is nothing physical going on here. You made a mathematical assertion, and I await one example to demonstrate the existence of what you allege. For example, if I claimed there was a cardinal between the cardinality of the integers and the cardinality of the reals, I should be able to display it, yes?

Quote:

They say the universe started out as an infinitely small point, accompanied by a HUGE amount of energy. Imagine that at that moment, instead of MATTER suddenly appearing, gaining mass and flying away, a progression of NUMBERS expanding (actually COUNTING) away from zero and being "assigned" mass, takes place. The Universe would still work the exact same way!

What algebraic system is the universe counting in? There are lots of algebras out there, which does the universe favor? Is that algebra ordered in some way? Is it a quaternion algebra (4 dimensions)? That's what most physicists believed up until string theory (10 dimensions) and M-theory (11 dimensions). In that case, it is not ordered. How do you count "away" when there is no ordering? It makes no sense to count in a continuous universe, and no sense to count away if there is no order. So, what exactly is the algebraic structure of the universe, and what is the "smallest possible" number in that algebra?

Another important issue if we go your route is that time itself is an emergent property of matter -- it does not exist by itself. Until a certain unquantifiable period after the big bang, time didn't exist, and therefore it makes no sense to count during this period. We believe we know how long that period was by extrapolating backwards, but before the existence of time, it's anyone's guess. This all sounds very contradictory, but time is a dimension, and dimensions were collapsing like crazy and all mixed up for a while. There is a great discussion of this issue in a letter to the editor in the most recent Scientific American.

Here is an important lesson: just because people write a lot to explain what seems to be deep ideas does not mean they are saying something meaningful or worthwhile.

I remain unconvinced.

--D-itty

guys guys

everything I have said

about 14 years at Ford
about my vision of the gaming floor back in 1990
about having written perhaps the first touch-screen gaming interface in 1989
about having spent 10 man years personally creating a freeking MASTERPIECE
about trying to contact the Wizard for 3 years
about going ape-sh.t programing for 5 weeks straight,
and every word in the above long long story,
and every word I have posted on this site,
and eveything I have written about on my web site

is all true.

Please, just ask the wizard.


As for my ol pal, MathEx, it was the Wizard that said "Do you thnk these guys...", and I''m the one who said "Heck Yes".

The Wizard INVITED ME to join this web site, and to participate, contruibute and network with y'all.

You, MathEx, have not been so hospitable with all your negative comments and terse arguments in light if what you KNOW I have. And you dont even know the half of it yet.

Wait until I introduce my game definition database.

Why don't you drop the BULL and accept what I am saying. It is for real.

I may be at least as dedicated as that bullit-ball guy, and maybe a bit more determined, but 26 years ago we both came up with a good idea. For him, that was all he ever really did. I added 26 more years of HARD WORK on top of evrything I have, built upon it, layer by layer, piece by piece, module by module, concept by concept. I didnt really show it to anyone until I felt it was ready to show.

That showing happend at 9:47 Vegas time on 30-Dec-2010 at the Red Rock Casino between me and Mike Shakelford, live and in person.

Thanks for your mistrust.

However, after you hear the real story, I will still repect your opinions!!!

Is there anything I have said or done thus far to leed you to beleive you can ruffle my feathers?

keep it comming !!!

thanks for taking the time to read this and I got a lot more stuff yet to convey, please check out the Ricochet game description in this post... that's just game number 1 of 26, and counting, all running right now live on the world-wide charity roll.

marty

discflicker.com

Dorothy!!!


Great to hear these words. I LOVE this sort of stuff.

PLEASE READ MY BOOKS! In the order I listed them above, PLEASE read them.

Although this is all way off topic for this particular thread, if you want to start up a new one, let me know.

THANKS for your interest!!!


BTW, here is a computer program, fully functional, that I include as a learning guide with my books. It lets you create a Universe any way you want to. It REALLY WORKS!! See the instructions and disclamers in the book Big Bang Formation Of Matter.

http://spikersystems.com/FlashNet_Pointer/www/projects/Martys_World/Z_Octopus_2.zip

Everything is free, add-free, no donations, no bibles to sell, no captive web pages, no hidden agendas in the background, its all purely science and reasoning and a bit of delusion and insanity!

Enjoy !!

marty
discflicker.com

Quote: discflicker

You, MathEx, have not been so hospitable with all your negative comments and terse arguments in light if what you KNOW I have. And you dont even know the half of it yet.

I'm not trying to be inhospitable Marty, I'm just trying to share some knowledge and advice. So are several other members of this forum with, frankly, more gaming industry experience than you give them credit for. But it's entirely up to you to accept or reject it.

Quote: discflicker

Dorothy!!! Great to hear these words. I LOVE this sort of stuff.

Well, I know this sort of stuff ... not great at it, but not bad either.

Quote:

PLEASE READ MY BOOKS! In the order I listed them above, PLEASE read them.

If you say a few smart and knowledgeable things in response to what I wrote, I'll consider it. So far, I'm not convinced of your knowledge of physics and mathematics, so it's not clear there is value there.

I'm very busy with mid-winter farming duties. So, please, convince me.

--Dorothy

Quote: MathExtremist

So are several other members of this forum with, frankly, more gaming industry experience than you give them credit for. But it's entirely up to you to accept or reject it.

Problem with boards like this is that everyone comes off as equal. Some are more equal than others. You, sir, are one of the most equal -- Mr. 60-Minutes guy ...

--Ms. D.

OK, Doro, something concise, huh?

Unzip the above file and just run the executable

octopus_2.exe

without extracting it from the zip. Its safe, I wrote every line of code in it and packaged it myself. It doesn’t write anything or make any changes to anything at all. If you dont trust a stray .exe, and I don't bame you, all of the VB-6 sources are included, and they exactly match the pseudo-code used throughout both books. The thing actully works, demonstrating how a digital universe can really work.

OK, so, now, the math formula for the universe you asked me about?

THAT'S IT, with 9 adjustable variables including dimension count.. all the green buttons and stuff works.

And that is just the tip of it.

Here's a screen shot from it... I just ran it just now.. M7P1DP0U, the sample Universe discussed in the book Big Bang Formation of Matter.




And so, your interaction with me was actually responsible for the creation of an entire run of a Universe. To the beings living within it, they cannot tell that it’s virtual, the same as us. And the same as us, they don’t know it’s a simple math formula being played out... a discrete sequence of perfectly reproducible steps.. and so they don't know that it’s not the first time they have lived.

Now that YOU know this, won't it be easier to live out your next, oh, say 10,000,000 lives than had you never met me? And doesn’t this POSSIBILITY (that’s really what its all about, but its math, not lightning bolts and fear) give you a darn good reason to be nice to others, and follow the golden rule?

There, you don't have to bother reading through 400 pages!!!

OH, by the way, try to just remember this.. you only have one chance to respond to this new knowledge in a positive way, so don’t blow it.. everybody’ll be really bummed out for the rest of eternity.

No pressures.


Does that spark you in any way?


Chapter 1 of my big book: What is Infinity???


Yo, Doro, I'm gonna start a new thread in the MATH area to talk about stuff like this. And so now, thanks to you, (hopefully), others will get to hear this simple message of possibility, and possibly, we can change the world just a bit for the bettter. The thing is, like my Mom used to say, even if I am totally wrong, still, "It Wouldn't Hurt"!!!



marty
discflicker.com

Quote: discflicker

you only have one chance to respond to this new knowledge in a positive way, so don’t blow it

You're going to dictate terms to me? That's a joke. Good bye.

Pleasure metting you. You're obviously a math purist and not interested in describing a realistic way for anything be able to move. Huh? In any computer simulation, in most any rendition of a series of calculations, at some point a digital granularty must be introduced. otherwise it would take an infinate amount of time to make infinately precice calculations, and the entire sequence cannot be executed. This is the point when reality ends and fantasy begins. Go ahead and stay in the world of fantasy and infiinity. In the real world, in the real universe, there is no warm blanket of space-time continuum, and thats why I say that infinity and reality are mutually exclusive.

Scientsis are just starting to all agree upon this. From the discovey that qaurks have no mass and therefore really only function as place-holders, to the derivations that our Universe started as as a point-size object, and the recent agreement upon the finite size, mass, and count of quarks in the Universe, everyone is starting to paint it in a light that is becoming eclipsed by the POSSIBILITY of a purely DIGITAL implementation.

And once that possibility is considered, I like to explore it as deeply as possible.. what if this, what if that,.. and all realistiically withing the context of it being an actual implementation of a digital U. My simple programs, just like all programs, can be reduced down to a single finite series equation.

That is what you asked me for and that is exactly what I showed you, and made available to you in the form of soucre code.

If you want to stop me short at the edge somewhere between zero and the smallest number possible, be my guest, maybe we'll met again somewhere over the rainbow.

I'm not sure why you think I'm imposing anything new upon you. What I'm saying must have occured to most everyone by the age of 6.

marty