Rosebud
Rosebud
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June 26th, 2020 at 11:16:18 AM permalink
I was wondering, for new games, when is a house edge considered "too high" for a table game? To the point where a regular player might not find it attractive to play. Also, are there any rules of thumb around hands per hour and the house edge? For instance, I would imagine you could get away with a slower game if you had a higher house edge, but are there any quantitative metrics or benchmarks in the industry?

EDIT: I should mention that I am talking for an overall house edge for the main section of a game. I know some things like side bets and what not can go very high, but I am taking about the "primary" house edge for the game. For instance, for the purposes of this question, for craps as an example, I would say the primary house edge is the house edge for the pass line and not the house edge for one of the other bets like Big 6 and 8.

Thanks!
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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Rosebud
June 27th, 2020 at 11:00:57 AM permalink
Not a simple question, but here is a simple answer: the house edge is too high when the typical gambler perceives that his bankroll does not last long enough.

Because of the complexity of the question I don't think I can seriously give a figure like "no more than 2% HE" though I think generally that can be a guide. I don't think you can sell a new game to the House with such a low HE though
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
tough
tough
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June 27th, 2020 at 6:27:21 PM permalink
I think the casinos should max out their house edge at 2.7%, like European roulette. Any more than this, like American roulette, and I think the game is a rip off.
100xOdds
100xOdds
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Rosebud
June 27th, 2020 at 6:36:22 PM permalink
Quote: Rosebud

I was wondering, for new games, when is a house edge considered "too high" for a table game? To the point where a regular player might not find it attractive to play. Also, are there any rules of thumb around hands per hour and the house edge? For instance, I would imagine you could get away with a slower game if you had a higher house edge, but are there any quantitative metrics or benchmarks in the industry?

EDIT: I should mention that I am talking for an overall house edge for the main section of a game. I know some things like side bets and what not can go very high, but I am taking about the "primary" house edge for the game. For instance, for the purposes of this question, for craps as an example, I would say the primary house edge is the house edge for the pass line and not the house edge for one of the other bets like Big 6 and 8.

Thanks!

it depends on your goal
ie: hrs of entertainment at a leisurely pace or reaching a certain rewards card tier level quickly

for your $ to last longest, play at the lowest house edge table games:
1) 3:2 bj
2) craps passline/dont pass
3) ultimate texas holdem

craps is probably the best to last the longest.
single passline/dont pass with max odds then just wait till you hit. you can stand there for many rolls with that single bet.

for rewards tier lvl, play video poker with a 99.1+% return and only if the casino doesnt require huge coin-in per tier point
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Rosebud
Rosebud
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June 27th, 2020 at 8:20:33 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Not a simple question, but here is a simple answer: the house edge is too high when the typical gambler perceives that his bankroll does not last long enough.

Because of the complexity of the question I don't think I can seriously give a figure like "no more than 2% HE" though I think generally that can be a guide. I don't think you can sell a new game to the House with such a low HE though



Thanks. And yes, definitely not a simple answer to a question like this! And yes, seems like any new carnival games would definitely need in excess of 2% now.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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Rosebud
June 27th, 2020 at 8:29:32 PM permalink
Imo, i would not have a game where the "perfect" player loses more than 2 "units" per hour on average.

A "unit" in this case is considered to be things like "antes" in multi-bet games.
Rosebud
Rosebud
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June 27th, 2020 at 8:47:17 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

it depends on your goal
ie: hrs of entertainment at a leisurely pace or reaching a certain rewards card tier level quickly

for your $ to last longest, play at the lowest house edge table games:
1) 3:2 bj
2) craps passline/dont pass
3) ultimate texas holdem

craps is probably the best to last the longest.
single passline/dont pass with max odds then just wait till you hit. you can stand there for many rolls with that single bet.

for rewards tier lvl, play video poker with a 99.1+% return and only if the casino doesnt require huge coin-in per tier point



Thanks. And I was actually asking more-so to better calibrate the edge of the game I am working on. I know carnival games are expected to have higher house edge, but at the same time, if it is too high, people won't want to play, so I am trying to figure out what the limit is to how high an edge can go before being perceived as too unattractive. But I figure that this would also have to take the hands per hour into account as well.
Rosebud
Rosebud
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June 27th, 2020 at 8:48:27 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Imo, i would not have a game where the "perfect" player loses more than 2 "units" per hour on average.

A "unit" in this case is considered to be things like "antes" in multi-bet games.



Thank you for the input - I will keep this in mind.
100xOdds
100xOdds
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June 28th, 2020 at 2:38:36 AM permalink
Quote: Rosebud

Thanks. And I was actually asking more-so to better calibrate the edge of the game I am working on.
I know carnival games are expected to have higher house edge, but at the same time, if it is too high, people won't want to play, so I am trying to figure out what the limit is to how high an edge can go before being perceived as too unattractive. But I figure that this would also have to take the hands per hour into account as well.

ah.. you're a game creator.

im not your target audience.
if the Wiz's review of the new game has a house edge greater than 0.9%, im not playing it.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
100xOdds
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June 28th, 2020 at 2:40:53 AM permalink
Quote: Rosebud

And yes, seems like any new carnival games would definitely need in excess of 2% now.

doh.. so BlackJack Switch wouldnt have made it in today's casino environment?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)

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