Questions about Patents

The Nevada's Gaming Control Board requirements when looking to get a new game approved includes you having to submit proof of a patent filing receipt for a new game patent. However, from going through these forums, it seems like the Alice Corp. v. CLS Bank International 134 S. Ct. 2347 (2014) and Bilski v. Kappos, 561 U.S. 593 (2010) court rulings prevent table games from getting patents. Is my understanding here correct, or is it still possible to obtain patents for table games? If so, are there certain things that need to be included for a successful patent filing given the decisions of the previously mentioned court cases?

Many thanks in advance for any assistance and advice.

For some reason I thought they were all fussy about the card games unless it used a custom deck of cards or something

It’s virtually impossible to get a patent for a table game in the current environment. However, if your concern is that you believe the Nevada Gaming Control Board requires this in order to get a game approved in Nevada, this isn’t the case. Merely include a statement in your submission that you are not pursuing a patent and that will suffice. If you do happen to have other intellectual property associated with the game such as trademarks or copyrights, they do want that documentation submitted in lieu of the patent application. However, if you don’t happen to have any other intellectual property, this won’t prevent you from submitting your application.

Hope this helps!

Thank you for that information - that is great to know.

Now, I have a related question. If the game in question combined not only a regular deck of cards, but also add "accessories" such as a token that gets passed around players to denote certain things, has there been any precedent that such a game would be successfully patentable?

Thanks again!

Quote: Rosebud

The Nevada's Gaming Control Board requirements when looking to get a new game approved includes you having to submit proof of a patent filing receipt for a new game patent. However, from going through these forums, it seems like the Alice Corp. v. CLS Bank International 134 S. Ct. 2347 (2014) and Bilski v. Kappos, 561 U.S. 593 (2010) court rulings prevent table games from getting patents. Is my understanding here correct, or is it still possible to obtain patents for table games? If so, are there certain things that need to be included for a successful patent filing given the decisions of the previously mentioned court cases?

Many thanks in advance for any assistance and advice.

I was not aware that Nevada required a patent filing for a new game, Where did you see this? I have never showed a patent application to Nevada Gaming. Maybe it is a new rule.

I wrote to the Gaming Control Board and was provided that information. However, as Doubleluck1 mentioned, this does not appear to be a hard and fast rule. I suppose you only include your patent if you have one in the first place.

May I also ask, what was your strategy to get your games out there with a patent? I was under the assumption that it would be difficult to get a casino or distributor to pay for a licence for something if they can just “copy” it.

Quote: DRich

I was not aware that Nevada required a patent filing for a new game, Where did you see this? I have never showed a patent application to Nevada Gaming. Maybe it is a new rule.

In PA I’m like 90 percent sure it’s a rule as well. I am pretty sure because I wouldn’t be asking some of the patent questions I have asked about. Come to think of it at one point I would have had To make the decision that it was completely necessary to have one and I have no clue why I am in the first place. I think for some reason I was also under this impression and this is most likely why I think I need a patent.

Having a patent has never seemed to be a deciding factor as to whether or not a casino will place your game on their floor. If they do move on your game, they’ll want any contract you enter into with them to state that you are the responsible party if there is an infringement on someone else’s intellectual property. Additionally, some properties will require you to obtain general contractor insurance that will protect them from being sued for infringement and won’t put your game in their casino until you prove this insurance has been secured (which very few companies issue — and will run you $2,000 - $3,000 per year).

The bigger concern you should have is that a major distributor steals your idea and distributes it across many justifications than a single casino copying your idea itself. The only casino company that seems to be getting their own games legal in Nevada is the Sands Corporation. Additionally, I don’t truly see a distributor trying to copy your game either unless it first becomes a commercial success. Both distributors and casinos are highly risk averse and don’t typically move on any idea until it’s first to be a proven winner and starts taking up their market share.

Lastly, I don’t believe having a card game that includes a token that goes from one player to another would be patentable as this idea already exists in several casino card games.

Quote: Doubleluck1

Having a patent has never seemed to be a deciding factor as to whether or not a casino will place your game on their floor. If they do move on your game, they’ll want any contract you enter into with them to state that you are the responsible party if there is an infringement on someone else’s intellectual property. Additionally, some properties will require you to obtain general contractor insurance that will protect them from being sued for infringement and won’t put your game in their casino until you prove this insurance has been secured.

The bigger concern you should have is that a major distributor steals your idea and distributes it across many justifications than a single casino copying your idea itself. The only casinos that seems to be getting their own games legal in Nevada is the Sands Corporation. Additionally, I don’t truly see a distributor trying to copy your game either unless it first becomes a commercial success. Both distributors and casinos are highly risk averse and don’t typically move on any idea until it’s first to be a proven winner.

Lastly, I don’t believe having a card game that includes a token that goes from one player to another would be patentable as this idea already exists in several casino card games.

Thank you once again for your detailed response. So, I gather a few points from this; please let me know if I am mistaken:

1. Casinos are still willing to pay a creator to license an un-patented game.
2. Las Vegas Sands tends not to licences copied games from the major distributors. However, other companies are willing to pay distributors for copied games.

I have a few follow on questions, but I just wanted to make sure that my understanding of the above is correct before I ask them.

Thank you very much!

Casinos are paying for unpatented games or games for which patents have already expired. Take 3-Card Poker, for example. A competitor has made their own exact copy of the game and brands it as “Tri-Lux”. Another is Spanish 21 — where a competitor has made an exact copy of that game and rebranded it as “Player’s Edge 21”. So operators are already paying for games they could truly copy on their own if they wanted to. I think most casinos don’t want to get into the business of this practice because it may be detrimental to getting new games from those same distributors. Additionally, many players are just loyal to a brand and want to play the game they know even though a copy-cat version is the exact same game.

With respect to the Sands Corporation, what I meant is that they only seem to be the only casino company that is currently in the business of producing their own games and then getting them approved by the NV Gaming Control Board. So even if a casino wanted to copy a game, they would still have to submit an application to the NV Gaming Control Board just like anyone else.

I’d be glad to be able to answer any follow on questions you may have. Just message me your number and I’ll give you a call.

I just doubt the idea is actually patentable as prior art already exists. There are a good number of card games that include a token to denote certain things. I recommend you to at least search on Google Patents for language related to your idea before paying a lawyer to do so. Not knowing every element of your idea, I couldn’t tell you for sure either way — I’m no legal expert but that’s just my opinion.

Quote: Doubleluck1

I just doubt the idea is actually patentable as prior art already exists. There are a good number of card games that include a token to denote certain things. I recommend you to at least search on Google Patents for language related to your idea before paying a lawyer to do so. Not knowing every element of your idea, I couldn’t tell you for sure either way — I’m no legal expert but that’s just my opinion.

e.g. Free-Bet Blackjack use token/s to denote certain things.

I believe they already have a patent or getting a patent on this (token/s to denote certain things).

the query "casino" "card game" "token"

returns about 1300 results at first glance

Quote: Doubleluck1

Casinos are paying for unpatented games or games for which patents have already expired. Take 3-Card Poker, for example. A competitor has made their own exact copy of the game and brands it as “Tri-Lux”. Another is Spanish 21 — where a competitor has made an exact copy of that game and rebranded it as “Player’s Edge 21”. So operators are already paying for games they could truly copy on their own if they wanted to. I think most casinos don’t want to get into the business of this practice because it may be detrimental to getting new games from those same distributors. Additionally, many players are just loyal to a brand and want to play the game they know even though a copy-cat version is the exact same game.

With respect to the Sands Corporation, what I meant is that they only seem to be the only casino company that is currently in the business of producing their own games and then getting them approved by the NV Gaming Control Board. So even if a casino wanted to copy a game, they would still have to submit an application to the NV Gaming Control Board just like anyone else.

I’d be glad to be able to answer any follow on questions you may have. Just message me your number and I’ll give you a call.

Hello! Sorry for the late reply! You actually ended up answering my primary question (why a casino would want to pay for an un-patented game when they could copy it), but if I think of any other questions, I hope I might be able to reach out later to take you up on that offer for a phone call.

Thanks you!

Quote: MrCasinoGames

e.g. Free-Bet Blackjack use token/s to denote certain things.

I believe they already have a patent or getting a patent on this (token/s to denote certain things).

It seems like the issues with new patents being granted for card games is a new problem that stems from the decisions of In re Smith (Fed. Cir. 2016). So, applications prior to this time should not have had issues getting patents, but unfortunately it seems much more difficult to do now.

I saw you on some other threads and you mentioned you had installations in UK casinos. I was wondering, is it easier to get patents in the UK (i.e. are they still granting them for games)? I know they have a big online gaming market as well, and I was wondering, when you licence a game to an online casino, do you need to licence software that you make, or just licence the idea which they code themselves into their systems?

Thank you.

Quote: heatmap

the query "casino" "card game" "token"

returns about 1300 results at first glance

Thank you for doing a search. I will look more into this.

Thanks for asking this question, I have had the same question in mind and everything I have read on the subject matter (published before this case in 2016) suggested a patent was required. I was curious if game inventors were just filing provisional patents so they could get a filing receipt (which it sounded like was required, but maybe not). I am curious if any games post this ruling have acquired patents, or if there are other options to protect a game other than trademarks, design patents. Anyone from the 2019 table games conference around to comment on this?

Quote: zbrownson

Thanks for asking this question, I have had the same question in mind and everything I have read on the subject matter (published before this case in 2016) suggested a patent was required. I was curious if game inventors were just filing provisional patents so they could get a filing receipt (which it sounded like was required, but maybe not). I am curious if any games post this ruling have acquired patents, or if there are other options to protect a game other than trademarks, design patents. Anyone from the 2019 table games conference around to comment on this?

Patents on electronic games are still issued in the U.S. The work around is to make a video version of your table game and patent it. That way you can still protect your claims.

I tell everyone to file a provisional patent applicationjust to hold their date. That gives you a year to flush out the game and file the full patent with claims.

Are there any avenues for table game inventors to protect their game, If they fail to get a patent? Say my game was successful during field trial and got some placements. But then I failed to get my provisional patent to full patent. Copyright s and Trademark or you just dead in the water?

Quote: Rosebud

The Nevada's Gaming Control Board requirements when looking to get a new game approved includes you having to submit proof of a patent filing receipt for a new game patent. However, from going through these forums, it seems like the Alice Corp. v. CLS Bank International 134 S. Ct. 2347 (2014) and Bilski v. Kappos, 561 U.S. 593 (2010) court rulings prevent table games from getting patents. Is my understanding here correct, or is it still possible to obtain patents for table games? If so, are there certain things that need to be included for a successful patent filing given the decisions of the previously mentioned court cases?

Many thanks in advance for any assistance and advice.

No, it is still very possible to obtain a patent that will protect a game in any of its formats. The problem is it's 1000x times more difficult to meet the requirements today than it was just 5 years ago. Follow my comments on this form here for the answers you seek. I just became a patent holder as of this year & have already filed 4 other non-provisionals since then.