Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em: Face up cards?
Q6 off you would need 10 dead cards to shift your strategy 2 dead cards isn’t good enough even the extreme example of one ace and one king
Yes I can put as many dead cards as I want in poker cruncher
Quote: acesideLet me try to understand you first. So, you used poker cruncher to calculate the raise/check decision when there are 10 dead cards. Right? Can you calculate this when there are only two dead cards?
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Thanks for the replies and help regardless though
Still a bit skeptical in general that 10 dead cards only gets the game to break even, it seems so significant to me while playing
Thanks for the replies and help regardless though
Still a bit skeptical in general that 10 dead cards only gets the game to break even, it seems so significant to me while playing
Quote: FaceupUTHI would like to post some screen shots not sure how to but on poker cruncher if player has A2 10 dead cards two of them being dueces player would have 53.7% equity against dealers two random cards
If we switched the two dead dueces with two dead aces player would have 52.2% equity
That’s an extreme example and still only 1.5% that’s where I made my broad conclusion from that they are relativelty equalQuote: gordonm888Quote: FaceupUTHIf you have A2 a dead ace and a dead deuce are fairly equal because the dealer having an ace would be bad for you
Are there a lot of chops ace high versus ace high sure, but the dealer having ace is a disaster and the dealer having a duece is great so that’s why
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I have done the math on this and they are not fairly equal. With an A2 much of your hand's equity comes from the prospect of pairing your Ace, and seeing an ace in someone else's hand reduces that equity by roughly 25%.
If you have done calculations, please show us your results. Otherwise, you are just handwaving, and I claim you have reached an erroneous conclusion.
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I don't agree; I think you've missed something important.
UTH is not the same game as Texas Hold'em poker. In UTH the dealer DOES NOT QUALIFY unless he has a pair. With A2, if you pair your deuce the only dealer hands you can beat are high card hands - but those hands DON'T QUALIFY. If you pair your Ace when holding A2 you can beat 22 pair - KK pair which are like 45% of the dealer hands and those hands all qualify! The difference is large. Use an on-line UTH calculator, not a standard poker calculator.
Also, you are quoting an A2 hand with 10 dead cards. If you've chosen your ten dead cards to not include any 3's, 4's, or 5's then you've artificially increased the chances of making a 5432A straight which may be screwing up your EVs. Try calculating K2 rather than A2 and I suspect you'll see a difference.
Anyway thanks for the reply, is there a UTH calculator with dead card feature ?
Quote: FaceupUTHThis response really annoyed me. It’s talking about not turning any check hands into 4xes based on dead cards which of course would be a huge part of the edge
Quote: tringlomaneQuote: teliotHere it is:
A full (six-player) table gets a computer-perfect edge of about 2.5%.
Stephen How wrote said full table collusion wasn't even enough to overcome the house edge. So someone unfortunately goofed. Or longer sims are needed to get a clearer answer. :(
/2010/06/14/collusion-performance-for-ultimate-texas-holdem/
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The calculations that teliot posted are accurate. See (https://www.888casino.com/blog/novelty-games/ultimate-texas-holdem-collusion) I can reproduce Eliot's EVs for each sampled hand. But, his 500-hand sample size is way too small to draw any conclusions about full table collusion EV. I have done collusion studies with much larger samples and proved that it is impossible to get a player advantage just by seeing all dead cards at a full table. https://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em-collusion/ The house edge using computer perfect play is still significant, so any practical strategy that you could hope to memorize will fare much worse.
Ten dead cards does not get the UTH game to breakeven, even if they let you bring your laptop to the table and hold up the game while you calculate the optimal strategy taking dead cards into account.Quote: FaceupUTHI was replying to someone that said two cards would flip a marginal case like Q6 is all
Thanks for the replies and help regardless though
Still a bit skeptical in general that 10 dead cards only gets the game to break even, it seems so significant to me while playing
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Quote: acesideI am very interested in this app, Poker Cruncher. Can it really calculate Ultimate Texas Hold’em poker hand situations? UTH and Texas Hold’em poker are still very different.
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69 suited,
79 suited,
79 offsuit.
They all raise 4x instead of check. Collusion is supposed to help only with borderline hand decisions, but these three hands are far away from borderlines. So, why are they in this list?
Quote: acesideI looked into these 47 raise/check switches out of 500 hands that Eliot has calculated and found these three hands interesting:
69 suited,
79 suited,
79 offsuit.
They all raise 4x instead of check. Collusion is supposed to help only with borderline hand decisions, but these three hands are far away from borderlines. So, why are they in this list?
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The typical set of ten dead cards is neutral EV, but it is possible to randomly pick 10 dead cards that are very favorable for the player. For middle connectors, having many dead overcards that do not contribute to straights is very favorable to the player's EV.
KQ becomes a substantially weaker hand if you know the dealer has at least one ace. It become very powerful if three aces are dead.
