How much can you sell a side bet for?
Poll
 | 1 vote (12.5%) | ||
| No votes (0%) | |||
| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 1 vote (12.5%) | ||
| | 6 votes (75%) |
8 members have voted
October 17th, 2015 at 4:49:20 PM
permalink
Many inventors have developed some successful BJ, craps, or poker side bets. What is a fair market price for a reasonably successful side bet? I meant to ask how much SG / SHFL / Galaxy / AGS "should" pay to obtain the total package (including the patent / intellectual property). Forget about the ones that got screwed by the big boys. :-)))
If a side bet has 100 placements, at a full price of $100 /table/month. Then the annual income for the inventor is
$100 X 100 tables x 12 = $120,000 / year. Will a distributor pay 3-year revenue to take over the side bet? Too much or too little?
A premium game may worth several millions, but a side bet? May be only one tenth of that.
If a side bet has 100 placements, at a full price of $100 /table/month. Then the annual income for the inventor is
$100 X 100 tables x 12 = $120,000 / year. Will a distributor pay 3-year revenue to take over the side bet? Too much or too little?
A premium game may worth several millions, but a side bet? May be only one tenth of that.
October 17th, 2015 at 5:24:08 PM
permalink
Quote: UCivanMany inventors have developed some successful BJ, craps, or poker side bets.......$100 X 100 tables x 12 = $120,000 / year. Will a distributor pay 3-year revenue to take over the side bet?
I can't think of any side bets that meet the above criteria that were not distributed by one of the big boys prior to reaching 100 installs. What specific side bets would you consider in this class of "Many"?
October 17th, 2015 at 5:29:41 PM
permalink
Very good question. Let's say Lucky Stuff Blackjack in Washington. It may have about 10-20 placements now and may go up to 50 then 100 quickly. What's a reasonable price (or fair market value) to acquire it?
October 17th, 2015 at 5:51:08 PM
permalink
Most agreements with distributors are shared revenue based at 80/20, and charge $100 to $290 per table-month based on demand.
There are approximately 80 established Blackjack side listed at Mike Shackleford's WOO site alone at his Blackjack side bet appendix, many of which are free, so you might have some rough going.
There are approximately 80 established Blackjack side listed at Mike Shackleford's WOO site alone at his Blackjack side bet appendix, many of which are free, so you might have some rough going.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
October 17th, 2015 at 5:51:16 PM
permalink
[duplicate]
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
October 17th, 2015 at 6:50:58 PM
permalink
Quote: UCivanVery good question. Let's say Lucky Stuff Blackjack in Washington. It may have about 10-20 placements now and may go up to 50 then 100 quickly. What's a reasonable price (or fair market value) to acquire it?
Couldn't tell you that answer today........if Lucky & my part time sales efforts were able to drive it to 100 placements, that would be pretty remarkable.
As Dan said, there are a lot of BJ side bets out there.......I don't think it is a seller's market by any stretch of the imagination.......even with 100 installs.
October 17th, 2015 at 10:45:15 PM
permalink
The interesting thing is that there is room for a handful of installs of a good side bet. Blackjack War did flash up and came back to earth. I know the inventor of one independent side bet, has 80 installs @ $150 in a couple of states, so makes $12K a month, a good living, the house, a new car, middle class. But he introduced it years ago and it has momentum and a brand.
All distributors now have a collection of their own Blackjack side bets, with Galaxy being dominant in that area with Lucky Ladies and 21+3, super established brands.
Game design went from a wide open frontier years ago to a crowded marketplace, and with the known good side bets being a safe decision for casino management. The question is asked "How is your new stuff better? Who are you?" This market is like being an independent screenwriter. the odds are that tough.
All distributors now have a collection of their own Blackjack side bets, with Galaxy being dominant in that area with Lucky Ladies and 21+3, super established brands.
Game design went from a wide open frontier years ago to a crowded marketplace, and with the known good side bets being a safe decision for casino management. The question is asked "How is your new stuff better? Who are you?" This market is like being an independent screenwriter. the odds are that tough.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
October 18th, 2015 at 12:26:44 AM
permalink
Actually, let me add something here concerning the reasons - the motivations - for developing games.
I can think of three reasons why people would want to develop new table games:
1. I want money.
2. I want to be a prominent person in this area as very few people can join this elite club. And I like the gaming conventions in Vegas.
3. The casino games I play (or deal) are missing some juice to them, and I can isolate, define, and implement exactly what is needed (and what can be done) to bring about that fix and improvement. And do it right. For the gamblers, not for me.
I dont want to be a prick over here and say that reasons #1 and #2 are invalid (they arent), but it is really having reason #3 as your intention thatll get your mind and hands to create the better game, a game thatll replace out the lesser and current games within the finite real estate realm that is the casino.
I can think of three reasons why people would want to develop new table games:
1. I want money.
2. I want to be a prominent person in this area as very few people can join this elite club. And I like the gaming conventions in Vegas.
3. The casino games I play (or deal) are missing some juice to them, and I can isolate, define, and implement exactly what is needed (and what can be done) to bring about that fix and improvement. And do it right. For the gamblers, not for me.
I dont want to be a prick over here and say that reasons #1 and #2 are invalid (they arent), but it is really having reason #3 as your intention thatll get your mind and hands to create the better game, a game thatll replace out the lesser and current games within the finite real estate realm that is the casino.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
October 18th, 2015 at 7:42:19 AM
permalink
Other reasons
4. When I tell other gamblers / dealers that I play against that I design table games, everyone thinks I am super smart and I know how to win.
5. I want to own patents, intellectual property...
4. When I tell other gamblers / dealers that I play against that I design table games, everyone thinks I am super smart and I know how to win.
5. I want to own patents, intellectual property...
October 18th, 2015 at 8:16:22 AM
permalink
As someone who has invented a side bet, Poker For Roulette, I can give you another reason for doing it.
Sure, I'm looking forwards to the big payday. But even if the eventual payday is rather small, the other reason I'm still pursuing it is simple: I want to know if I was smart enough, or lucky enough, to come up with an idea that the average gambler actually likes enough to bet real money on.
I really just want to see if my baby will live...
Sure, I'm looking forwards to the big payday. But even if the eventual payday is rather small, the other reason I'm still pursuing it is simple: I want to know if I was smart enough, or lucky enough, to come up with an idea that the average gambler actually likes enough to bet real money on.
I really just want to see if my baby will live...
Last edited by: DJTeddyBear on Mar 21, 2021
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 18th, 2015 at 9:08:04 AM
permalink
Once you have given birth to a life, it's hard to walk away. The baby is so beautiful.
October 18th, 2015 at 9:40:14 AM
permalink
Quote: RoyalBJOther reasons
4. When I tell other gamblers / dealers that I play against that I design table games, everyone thinks I am super smart and I know how to win.
Don't worry, it'll get to be like telling someone you're a screenwriter in L.A.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
October 18th, 2015 at 9:44:16 AM
permalink
Quote: UCivanOnce you have given birth to a life, it's hard to walk away. The baby is so beautiful.
Every new game designer swears his daughter is Miss America. See if she gets a date.....
And it requires a lot of maintenance. You'll be paying for private school, braces, play dates, the whole nine yards, and fending her of from bullies with an attorney that charges by the hour.
Actually, in response to the OP's question, "How much can I make on a side bet [or game]" the real question is "How much does it cost to get a game going in hopes of ever seeing a return?"
The average cost for the first game design (where plenty of mistakes are made) is about $50,000, almost always in vain. Subsequent games are about $20,000 (working efficiently now knowing the process for the patent, independent math, GLI/BMM math, gaming submission fees and artwork), with a better shot.
I did have investors help finance things, and they got paid off several times over, over the years. I did tell them, "You do know you were crazy for investing now, right? You do know that." They say, "We thought your kid was a stunner, and knew she'd get a date." ....may she become a star.
This is rare. It is when others also think you're onto something that you may be on to something. Show us some pictures of your pride and joy, let us opine.....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
October 18th, 2015 at 10:04:22 AM
permalink
Quote: UCivanOnce you have given birth to a life, it's hard to walk away. The baby is so beautiful.
I view games more like race horses....if they train well (at sales meetings with DTG's) or show well (at places like the upcoming TG Conference) then you get to enter them in a maiden race (field trial).
If the run well there, you get a chance to enter them in a few more small stakes races (add'l placements) and see if they can win/place/show in those small time races.
If they don't don't train well or run well once out on the track, it's time to take them out behind the barn and give them to the glue factory rep because it costs too much in time, energy and $$ to feed them and keep them around.
A good stable owner knows he is going to lose quite a few horses along the way. I have received three thank you baskets from the glue factory rep to date.......and those horses sure looked like outstanding foals at birth!
October 18th, 2015 at 10:28:57 AM
permalink
Actually, Michael, "Easy Over Under" is a GREAT name for a horse, I would have bet her in the 3rd. Too bad she scratched....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
October 18th, 2015 at 11:51:27 AM
permalink
Actually she got into the gate and was off and running..........but soon the field left her in the dust and she finished last by 18 lengths :-).......at least I got a Thank You basket from the glue factory rep!!
October 18th, 2015 at 2:33:56 PM
permalink
Quote: PaigowdanActually, Michael, "Easy Over Under" is a GREAT name for a horse, I would have bet her in the 3rd. Too bad she scratched....
Here comes a similar horse in the race (may be)
Casino Over Under
October 18th, 2015 at 6:59:48 PM
permalink
If you search the Apple App store for "Highside" you will find the final iteration of my card/dice over/under game concept. The App is free and has no commercials (I don't make a dime from it).
I never succeeded in getting this game version placed anywhere, but thought it played pretty well.....just to foreign of a concept for the casino floor.
That horse just didn't train well so never got to race :-).
I never succeeded in getting this game version placed anywhere, but thought it played pretty well.....just to foreign of a concept for the casino floor.
That horse just didn't train well so never got to race :-).
October 20th, 2015 at 9:44:44 AM
permalink
Quote: PaigowdanMost agreements with distributors are shared revenue based at 80/20, and charge $100 to $290 per table-month based on demand.
There are approximately 80 established Blackjack side listed at Mike Shackleford's WOO site alone at his Blackjack side bet appendix, many of which are free, so you might have some rough going.
So what is the typical revenue for a table game (not the side bet)?
Also, is the "surrender rule" in BJ a proprietary system, or is it now a public domain system?
October 20th, 2015 at 3:54:22 PM
permalink
Quote: 777So what is the typical revenue for a table game (not the side bet)?
Also, is the "surrender rule" in BJ a proprietary system, or is it now a public domain system?
Depending upon the prior success of the game in other properties and the jurisdiction/property in which the game is being installed... Anywhere from $350 - $1,500 per table, per month.
.
October 20th, 2015 at 6:20:20 PM
permalink
And if you're working with a game distributor, you get a percentage. How big of a percentage depends on the game's status when you strike the deal.Quote: mrsuit31... Anywhere from $350 - $1,500 per table, per month.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 20th, 2015 at 6:47:33 PM
permalink
DJ, are you allowed to use a professional model on an Avatar as you have done ? Good luck with Poker Roulette. If you get a trial in Vegas, I will definitely be a customer.
October 20th, 2015 at 8:19:00 PM
permalink
I'm not sure what you mean. My avatar is me. I'm no model, professional or otherwise.Quote: redjohnDJ, are you allowed to use a professional model on an Avatar as you have done ?
Thanks. You and the rest of the WoV gang will be among the first to know.Quote: redjohnGood luck with Poker Roulette. If you get a trial in Vegas, I will definitely be a customer.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 20th, 2015 at 8:41:18 PM
permalink
Hey Handsome. like your poker roulette game better than this one for sure.
http://www.hmdentertainment.com
http://www.hmdentertainment.com
