future of table game development
Considering the number of "new games" that keep coming out every day in regards to BJ, BJ side wagers and Poker variants... will there come a time when no new combinations are even possible anymore? From the things that we are starting to see develop is merely redressed/renames existing games. When will there come a time when it just isnt possible to have a "new" game in regards to BJ, BJ side wagers or new poker table games...
Isnt there some cap as to the total possible number of different combinations that cards can possible be viewed?
This isnt me trying to discretely badmouth any new or existing games, im merely just curious to peoples thoughts.
Gambling is like fashion, you can't always explain why you like a certain trend, but the trend will soon fade away, only to make a slightly modified return in a few years.
Quote: ActuarialMathematically, no - there is no limit to the number of combinations of card games.
Gambling is like fashion, you can't always explain why you like a certain trend, but the trend will soon fade away, only to make a slightly modified return in a few years.
Thank you for the clarification on the math aspect.
I would like to address something regarding the second part of your response (nothing relating to you)... This is exactly how the USPTO is inadvertently destroying the industry. By failing to allow most patents on physical table games to pass, they have opened the flood gates for people to rip each other off in the sense, like you said, by slightly modifying or just redressing and existing idea and bringing it back...
Quote: onenickelmiracleYou would have to change the deck of cards themselves for more spice if they became too limiting. Would regulators allow this and would players accept them?
Spanish 21. PaiGowPoker. DoubleDrawPoker. Just a few that have stripped or augmented the basic 52.
Quote: onenickelmiracleYou would have to change the deck of cards themselves for more spice if they became too limiting. Would regulators allow this and would players accept them?
I believe this would be a better question to the member 13s, who is pushing the game lucky 13s BJ, as this is exactly what he is trying to do.
Im not sure how regulators would handle this, i would imagine it wouldnt go smoothly as they wouldnt have presidential standards in place for such a thing...
Personally, if im going to casino to play cards whether it be 31, poker, Bj, pai gow etc... I would want to play cards. Im not sure what novel/irregular decks would bring to the market or how they would be accepted. I couldnt imagine players liking this very much IMHO.
Quote: beachbumbabsSpanish 21. PaiGowPoker. DoubleDrawPoker. Just a few that have stripped or augmented the basic 52.
I assumed he meant actual changes not just adding jokers, which isnt foreign as we all know, or simply removing 10s from a deck.
But Ill let him confirm this...
Quote: beachbumbabsSpanish 21. PaiGowPoker. DoubleDrawPoker. Just a few that have stripped or augmented the basic 52.
And we can't forget my favorite name Ménage à Trois. Arrrggg they changed the name to Monarchy. A BJ variant with no aces. Never seen it in a casino.
Quote: mipletAnd we can't forget my favorite name Ménage à Trois. Arrrggg they changed the name to Monarchy. A BJ variant with no aces. Never seen it in a casino.
Now youve done it Mip, im patenting BJ games with every single card removed respectively... Im going to be a gillionaire!
Actually wait..... no im not.
Quote: mrsuit31Quote: mipletAnd we can't forget my favorite name Ménage à Trois. Arrrggg they changed the name to Monarchy. A BJ variant with no aces. Never seen it in a casino.
Now youve done it Mip, im patenting BJ games with every single card removed respectively... Im going to be a gillionaire!
Actually wait..... no im not.
Coming soon by mrsuit31: Pinochle BJ.
Quote: mipletQuote: mrsuit31Quote: mipletAnd we can't forget my favorite name Ménage à Trois. Arrrggg they changed the name to Monarchy. A BJ variant with no aces. Never seen it in a casino.
Now youve done it Mip, im patenting BJ games with every single card removed respectively... Im going to be a gillionaire!
Actually wait..... no im not.
Coming soon by mrsuit31: Pinochle BJ.
Great, now i have to add you to the trademark application. Comon man!
Yes like adding the welfare queen, Uncle Jack on the roof, King Dom, etc., to the deck making it very unconventional.Quote: mrsuit31I assumed he meant actual changes not just adding jokers, which isnt foreign as we all know, or simply removing 10s from a deck.
But Ill let him confirm this...
Quote: onenickelmiracleThe oligarch, the banker, the lobbyist,
The house edge would be way to high on the last two...
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Ideas are limitless. At last years Raving there was a variation of cribbage within a card game. Recently there's been a horse racing card game. It's only a matter of time before classic games like Mancala or Bidwhist (Look them up if you don't know them. They are actually good games.) get linked to a table game.
ZCore13
I understand Z. I was mainly speaking in regard to BJ, BJ side wagers and poker variants. I Obviously like when people bring forth new "different" games. But I mainly was referring to the extremely large number of these "big three", mentioned above, that come out every year...
Ill take a look at those games you mentioned...
Quote: mrsuit31I understand Z. I was mainly speaking in regard to BJ, BJ side wagers and poker variants. I Obviously like when people bring forth new "different" games. But I mainly was referring to the extremely large number of these "big three", mentioned above, that come out every year...
Well, what about craps and roulette ... they are outside of your list of the big three.
Does that make it "the big three plus two"?
There are not extremely large numbers of the "plus two" varients and/or side bets, although as mentioned here recently DJTeddyBear and the Lucks have some very recent roulette related patents.
Craps may be limited on possible new side bets, but, tell you what, next week or two, I'll come up with a couple new Craps variants (not side bets) to show how Craps still has room for new variants.
Quote: NewToCrapsWell, what about craps and roulette ... they are outside of your list of the big three.
Does that make it "the big three plus two"?
There are not extremely large numbers of the "plus two" varients and/or side bets, although as mentioned here recently DJTeddyBear and the Lucks have some very recent roulette related patents.
Craps may be limited on possible new side bets, but, tell you what, next week or two, I'll come up with a couple new Craps variants (not side bets) to show how Craps still has room for new variants.
You dont see as many people come out with new variants of craps and roulette. I myself started to push a new roulette side wager but halted soon after expressing said wager... I would like to see more variants on games like these...
Roulette i feel has been pretty much conquered by several of different types like the luck brothers, DJ, Mrcasinogames along with many others im sure we havent heard of...
Craps however i would be intrigued to see what you come up with. As far as dice games go i know a few have tried and didnt succeed like scossa and i believe there have been a few attempts to create celo variants as well. others like craps football and many others have posted here with their attempts at craps variants... Then there is always sic bo as well. Believe it or not, there has been a very large number of side wagers people have tried to install on both games mentioned, very few of which have any real value. You know the side wagers for craps that have worked/are working...
The big issue with a lot of this stuff again comes down to the ability to protect the idea. the beauty of roulette is that it passes the machine or transformation test as the wheel i believe is the reason you can get past it (although not a roulette claims expert). Craps on the other hand doesnt have such a "machine" attached.
I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
You could have asked the same question 3-4 years ago, and then there came Blackjack Switch, War Blackjack, Freebet Blackjack, Arizona Stud, etc.. Innovations are endless; it's the American thing.Quote: mrsuit31I understand Z. I was mainly speaking in regard to BJ, BJ side wagers and poker variants. I Obviously like when people bring forth new "different" games. But I mainly was referring to the extremely large number of these "big three", mentioned above, that come out every year...
Ill take a look at those games you mentioned...
Quote: Zcore13Ideas are limitless...
ZCore13
Agreed Zcore13. The well is not dry yet ... far from it.
Quote: mipletAnd we can't forget my favorite name Ménage à Trois. Arrrggg they changed the name to Monarchy. A BJ variant with no aces. Never seen it in a casino.
Wow....a game that used to be called "Menage a Trois" with a side bet now called "Happy Beginning"!! They should have just called it "Happy Ending", why hold back a that point?
Lucky & I are getting enough giggles from players and Deal Staff with the name "Lucky Stiff"......at least our name is a reference to a "Stiff Hand" in blackjack (e.g. a hard 12 - 16) and not a blatant sexual reference.
Sex does sell, but I don't think it works well in a blatantly sexual game name.
Quote: ParadigmSex does sell, but I don't think it works well in a blatantly sexual game name.
I'd imagine it's because people don't like thinking about how expensive sex is...
Quote: LuckyAgreed Zcore13. The well is not dry yet ... far from it.
That's what Bernie Bilski thought too !
Quote: BuzzardThat's what Bernie Bilski thought too !
haha
Quote: Paradigm
Lucky & I are getting enough giggles from players and Deal Staff with the name "Lucky Stiff"......at least our name is a reference to a "Stiff Hand" in blackjack (e.g. a hard 12 - 16) and not a blatant sexual reference.
Might I add the addition of your mascot having a large cigar in his mouth as well... :/ lol just playing around...
Logo was an attempt at an Irish looking regular guy who enjoys few drinks, a cigar and a good laugh. He just happens to be a "Lucky Guy", some might call him a "Lucky Stiff"!
Quote: mrsuit31Craps however i would be intrigued to see what you come up with. As far as dice games go i know a few have tried and didnt succeed like scossa and i believe there have been a few attempts to create celo variants as well. others like craps football and many others have posted here with their attempts at craps variants... Then there is always sic bo as well. Believe it or not, there has been a very large number of side wagers people have tried to install on both games mentioned, very few of which have any real value. You know the side wagers for craps that have worked/are working...
The big issue with a lot of this stuff again comes down to the ability to protect the idea. the beauty of roulette is that it passes the machine or transformation test as the wheel i believe is the reason you can get past it (although not a roulette claims expert). Craps on the other hand doesnt have such a "machine" attached.
I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
I put the first one out there ... the second to follow soon.
Quote: ParadigmHaha....agree, but I can honestly tell you that Lucky & I weren't even considering this line of thinking.
Logo was an attempt at an Irish looking regular guy who enjoys few drinks, a cigar and a good laugh. He just happens to be a "Lucky Guy", some might call him a "Lucky Stiff"!
That green jacket in Lucky's closet did not come from him winning the Master's golf tournament !
This year's rules : Each exhibitor is allowed to enter one
(1) new table game per 10’ x 10’ booth space with a maximum of two (2) new table games in the competition.
Also how many games were displayed last year ?
Well, just found this on the forum : What is impressive is the size of the show growing from 21 games last year to 30 this year. Raving 2013
Raving 2014 :
Please note, the competition is limited to the first 20 complete entries received.
Additional Benefits Announced for Winners of
Casino Journal's Best New Ta
ble Games of 2013 Competition!!
Galaxy Gaming has graciously offered the 1
st
, 2
nd
and 3
rd
place winners of
Casino Journal’s Best New Table Games of
2013 Competition additional benefits!
1
1
st
Place, Gold Winner, will receive Galaxy
Gaming’s Full Service Game Rollout &
Development Program (a $50,000+ value)
Program Elements Include:
Guaranteed Licensing Agreement with w/12 Month 100% Royalty
Development of sales and marketing plan
High-res logo design and brand creation
Optimal layout design
GLI certification
Submission for Nevada approval and field trial
Online interactive game
Production quality video & social media distribution
Operator focus group
2
nd
Place, Silver Winner, will receive Gala
xy Gaming’s Inventor’s Development
Program (a $15,000+ value)
Program Elements Include:
High-res logo design and brand creation
Optimal layout design
Math verification
Paytable consulting
Operator focus group
3
rd
Place, Bronze Winner, will receive Galaxy Gaming’s Co
nsulting Services
(a $5,000 value)
Program Elements Include:
8 Hours Consulting Services by Galaxy Gaming
Owner of the world’s leading in
dependent businesses specializing
in casino table game design, development, and mathematical
certification, Raving Partner,
Dr. Eliot Jacobson
, will provide an
exclusive one hour review and a follow up one hour conversation
with the third place winner. This co
uld include expert feedback on
the way the game plays, math
, marketing materials, etc.
This year ? ? ?
Quote: BuzzardI think they got all the goodies, key word is THINK.
I don't know for sure about all, but I do know they were in contact and the owner (at the time) of War had the opportunity to participate in all of the 1st place benefits.
ZCore13
