Pay Table Feedback

Below are some pay tables for some bets I'm working on. Would be interested in some feedback on if pay tables look comfortable enough for players, and if Casinos would be comfortable with such pay tables... Thanks...


Da Bet

Hand	Pays	Probability	Return
Da Plays	1	0.314814815	0.314814815
Ends Total 5	2	0.047619048	0.095238095
Ends Total 10	5	0.023809524	0.119047619
Ends Total 15	20	0.002645503	0.052910053
Loser	-1	0.611111111	-0.611111111
Total		1	-0.029100529

Poker Bet

Hand	Pays	Probability	Return
Two Pair	2	0.055555556	0.111111111
Trips	3	0.111111111	0.333333333
Straight	4	0.021164021	0.084656085
Perfect Straight	20	0.010582011	0.211640212
Loser	-1	0.801587302	-0.801587302
Total		1	-0.060846561

Point Bet

Hand	Pays	Probability	Return
No Pair	7	0.106995885	0.748971193
Pair	14	0.003527337	0.049382716
Pair Aces	35	0.000293945	0.010288066
Pair Jokers	140	0.000293945	0.041152263
Loser	-1	0.888888889	-0.888888889
Total		1	-0.039094650

Forget about "Point Bet". If a player bets $35, no one can count $35 x 35, nor $35 x 14..

I think the Poker Bet & the Point Bet have to much RTP tied up in rare events. Poker Bet has .42 tied up in an event that happens once every 95 rolls and Point Bet has .10+ tied up in combined events that occur once every 243 rolls, not as bad as Poker bet.

Neither will provide a great player experience in my opinion, but there are successful bets out there with worse top heavy pay tables. Compare both of those to Da Bet which only has .05 tied up in rare events.....much better experience. I would add that the 7 14 35 140 payouts are also pretty undesirable.

The da bet is the main bet. The point bet wins 7 to 1, with a chance to win a bonus multiplier of 2 times, 5 times or 20 times.

Quote: Paradigm

I think the Poker Bet & the Point Bet have to much RTP tied up in rare events. Poker Bet has .42 tied up in an event that happens once every 95 rolls and Point Bet has .10+ tied up in combined events that occur once every 243 rolls, not as bad as Poker bet.

Neither will provide a great player experience in my opinion, but there are successful bets out there with worse top heavy pay tables. Compare both of those to Da Bet which only has .05 tied up in rare events.....much better experience. I would add that the 7 14 35 140 payouts are also pretty undesirable.

I edited Poker Bet pay table. Also the Point bet has a 1 in 9 chance of winning, which about 75% of payout is the 7 to 1 payout, the rarer events pay less than 25% of the payouts amounts.

Let me state it differently: On the Point bet, 99.59% of hands, you are either going to win 7-1 or lose one unit and you are playing a game with a HE of 13.9%!

The player is going lose 8 hands and then win one hand and get paid 7-1........rinse and repeat for 26 cycles before finally hitting one of the other rare pay events during the 27th cycle. Does that sound fun from a player experience standpoint?

Quote: Paradigm

Let me state it differently: On the Point bet, 99.59% of hands, you are either going to win 7-1 or lose one unit and you are playing a game with a HE of 13.9%!

The player is going lose 8 hands and then win one hand and get paid 7-1........rinse and repeat for 26 cycles before finally hitting one of the other rare pay events during the 27th cycle. Does that sound fun from a player experience standpoint?

HE is 3.9% not 13.9%. I think of it like betting on 4 numbers on roulette, with a lower HE and chance to win 3 different higher payouts so it sounds great to me as a player.

You missed my point with the "99.59% of hands" qualifier..........get it out on the floor and report back on the player reaction.

I'm following this thread as it's interesting to hear people's ideas.

I know 21+3 is very popular in the UK, it pays 9/1 and that's it. There's another associated bet (Top 3) which only pays 90/1 and upwards, and some people like that as well. However Pair+ at 3CP proves popular paying 1/1, 4/1, 6/1 and the long-shots.

So I was wondering if one was designing a simple side-bet that could pay either 5/1 or 25/1 (or 33/1 "long-shot" etc. if it makes it easier) how much of the return should one try to have for the 5/1 part.

Or should one have a bet that includes a fairly common payout of 1/1 or 2/1 to keep the player interested (I always assume 1/2 or stand-off are not really acceptable except for simple even money chances or fruit machines) as well as a "long-shot" chance.

Quote: charliepatrick

I'm following this thread as it's interesting to hear people's ideas.

I know 21+3 is very popular in the UK, it pays 9/1 and that's it. There's another associated bet (Top 3) which only pays 90/1 and upwards, and some people like that as well. However Pair+ at 3CP proves popular paying 1/1, 4/1, 6/1 and the long-shots.

So I was wondering if one was designing a simple side-bet that could pay either 5/1 or 25/1 (or 33/1 "long-shot" etc. if it makes it easier) how much of the return should one try to have for the 5/1 part.

Or should one have a bet that includes a fairly common payout of 1/1 or 2/1 to keep the player interested (I always assume 1/2 or stand-off are not really acceptable except for simple even money chances or fruit machines) as well as a "long-shot" chance.

I feel that 40% of the total payout should be paid on the two most frequent occurrences, if that makes sense.

Da Bet

Hand	Pays	Probability	Return
Da Plays	1	0.314814815	0.314814815
Ends Total 5	2	0.047619048	0.095238095
Ends Total 10	3	0.023809524	0.071428571
Ends Total 15	20	0.002645503	0.052910053
Loser	-1	0.611111111	-0.611111111
Total		1	-0.076719577

Poker Bet

Hand	Pays	Probability	Return
Two Pair	2	0.055555556	0.111111111
Trips	3	0.111111111	0.333333333
Straight	4	0.021164021	0.084656085
Perfect Straight	20	0.010582011	0.211640212
Loser	-1	0.801587302	-0.801587302
Total		1	-0.060846561

Point Bet

Hand	Pays	Probability	Return
No Pair	7	0.106995885	0.748971193
Pair	14	0.003527337	0.049382716
Pair Aces	28	0.000293945	0.008230453
Pair Jokers	280	0.000293945	0.082304527
Loser	-1	0.888888889	-0.888888889
Total		1	0.000000000

Here is updated table, the Point Bet must not exceed amount bet on Da Bet...