What's the worst game that has made it?
So let's set the bar low for a minute... your hot new game doesn't have to be the next Three Card Poker, it just has to be as good as Mr Toad's Crapfest.
Trivia Time! What do these two games have in common?
Sadly, there are countless losers falling under a small handful of winners. Games that make you say "Dude, this game BLOWS!"
A lot of games come to mind.
Some newer games are generally good, but suffer from flaws as well. Wild 6 card poker is tough to follow. Texas Shootout has a houseway that makes Pai Gow Poker look simple. It really hurts to get a premium 5 card hand in Texas Hold'em Bonus and be paid only 1:1 on the hand.
And some houses have terrible procedures that detract from otherwise decent games. I've been to a couple places that require the player to expose 3 card poker and 4 card poker hands mid-game to claim a winning bonus bet. That's a needless procedure that slows the game and provides extra information mid-hand to the other players.
In terms of slot design, I've always wondered about one thing that seems to be fairly common with bonus symbols. On 3x5 and 4x5 games with bonus symbols on all 5 reels, there's almost always a line in the rules that says "the bonus is triggered when 3 or more bonus symbols appear on an active payline." But that's not actually how it works. The bonus is triggered when that happens and the bonus symbols are also in sequence beginning with the left-most reel. Based on what the rules actually say, symbols on reels 3, 4, and 5 should start the bonus and they don't.
There's a similar issue on slots with parent and child reels, like Gems Gems Gems. The rules say that 3 bonus symbols in any game start the bonus. But that isn't how it actually works. symbols on reels 1, 3, and 5 start the bonus, but it's possible on the child games to get more than one bonus symbol per reel and a 1, 1, 5 combination satisfies the rules and does not start the bonus.
It combined slow play, inaccurate machine card reads, a dealer who didn't know how to pay out, confusion as to bet positioning (we ended up negotiating amongst ourselves where we'd place our bets in each block) and improper execution of the rules (in the player's favor).
I was interested in seeing how it felt when I came across the summary of it at WoV... but when actually playing, it came across as being ridiculously slow, frustrating, and boring. Lost 5 consecutive 50/50 1$ bets (no edge, due to them not following the rules) and I left.
Quote: WizardTwo that jump to my mind are Casino Backgammon and Three Dice Football. They both get points for originality, but I fault them for being too difficult to teach and a slow pace of play.
Trivia Time! What do these two games have in common?
You found them at a casino that now also ceases to exist? :)
And personally I did think 3 dice football was very clever, I would have tried to play it if I would have ran into it. But both of these games are very complicated. Backgammon is particularly bad since probably less than <10% of all table game patrons has ever even played Backgammon.
I dunno if it ever got on an actual gaming floor but I thought casino "Monopoly" sounded like it was going to be a big bomb (and was):
http://grochowski.casinocitytimes.com/article/game-maker-rolls-out-monopoly-yahtzee-793
I am not impressed with let it ride. It is painfully boring if you aren't hole carding. Hit rate too low, strategy too simple.
Quote: WizardTwo that jump to my mind are Casino Backgammon and Three Dice Football. They both get points for originality, but I fault them for being too difficult to teach and a slow pace of play.
Trivia Time! What do these two games have in common?
Both Pants
Quote: DRichSadly, this one only made it to one casino and lasted about 4 months. I did all of the programming and G.L.I. submissions.
Wasioux
Shocking, what a terrible game, 4 months hey, they must have been feeling sorry for the inventor
Quote: IbeatyouracesOne of the places I frequent, this game has either no players or its full with spectators three rows deep.
Goes to prove the point, so many poor games, even poorer games have a chance.!
It definitely qualifies as made it, as it's been around a long time.
*I'm sure you know what I mean by no frills, as it's the basic screen, no fancy graphics, and been around since the 70's maybe?
It's an assault on your ears. Who the f**k wants to listen to machine/rock grinding sound effects? (yes, someone does obviously)
Quote: rxwine*I'm sure you know what I mean by no frills, as it's the basic screen, no fancy graphics, and been around since the 70's maybe?
Speaking of that, shouldn't the basic, no frills, one hand VP get updated graphics and sounds? Of course many of the machines now in use must ahve been there since the 90s or so, but, really, pixelated images in 2013?
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Red Dog and Casino War are two of the worst I've seen make it into the Casino. There are a lot that have been pitched to me and I've seen at conventions that are pretty terrible, but have never made it (for obvious reasons when you play them).
ZCore13
I've seen dozens of games by individual inventors over the years at G2E and, before that, WGCE. Most had no shot at all for various fundamental reasons that weren't apparent to the inventor, but were to any competent operator -- the game was too slow, the procedure was irreparably broken, the edge was too low or too high, etc. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen an individual inventor buy a booth at G2E two or more years in a row. The exceptions were mostly when Raving bought a huge booth and was subletting it, but Reed no longer allows that.
I was responsible for evaluating 3rd-party game submissions for my employer in the 1990s and uniformly everything we saw was bad. One fellow submitted a blackjack variant where you always started with two aces and could either "hit it or split it". (Whoever you were, if you're reading this now, that gives the player a huge edge). We weren't focusing on table game content much, though, and ultimately didn't take anything.
Quote: rxwineAlso "Caveman Keno"
It's an assault on your ears. Who the f**k wants to listen to machine/rock grinding sound effects? (yes, someone does obviously)
Funny you mention that game. My very first play of any form of live or electronic keno in a casino, two days ago. I was drunk and done with losing at VP for the night, so I thought what the hell.
I'll listen to that head-bashing noise if I could consistently win like that...lol
Quote: IbeatyouracesSpeaking of Mississippi Stud, I'm currently watching a guy bet $25 on the ante and being allowed to bet LESS on third, fourth and fifth streets.
Are you currently doing the same? I would think that would have to help you chase down all those meddling hands.
ZCore13
Quote: McDemonHas casino war "made it"?
It semi-made it. Remember, at one time Deuces Wild Hold 'em Fold 'em was in 50% of the Las Vegas Valley's casinos. Staying power is key.
I worked with a fellow dealer at Fiesta who also dealt part-time at the Aria. He said there was one high roller who played casino war for $5,000 a hand minimum, for hours on end. I looked at him as if he were from Mars.
Quote: PaigowdanIt semi-made it. Remember, at one time Deuces Wild Hold 'em Fold 'em was in 50% of the Las Vegas Valley's casinos. Staying power is key.
I worked with a fellow dealer at Fiesta who also dealt part-time at the Aria. He said there was one high roller who played casino war for $5,000 a hand minimum, for hours on end. I looked at him as if he were from Mars.
Dan, its "cut the cards", something I use to play when I was 7 with my mates, Are you seriously telling me that " Casino 'Cut the cards' War semi made it? I despair:(
Quote: McDemonDan, its "cut the cards", something I use to play when I was 7 with my mates, Are you seriously telling me that " Casino 'Cut the cards' War semi made it? I despair:(
Yes, and it's a crying shame! On the LAS VEGAS STRIP? And at the Aria??
I assume it will be gone one day soon, as a passing phase, - like Disco, platform shoes, and bell-bottom jeans.
Quote: PaigowdanI assume it will be gone one day soon, as a passing phase, - like Disco, platform shoes, and bell-bottom jeans.
Eventually. But hasn't it stuck around in Vegas for over 10 years now? I don't think I have ever seen the game outside of Vegas though; any casinos in a non-touristy area couldn't support the game for sure.
Quote:One variant has the "dealer" hold up the deck of cards in one hand in a grip similar to the grip one might use to shuffle the cards. The deck is usually pre-arranged to have a few black cards on the bottom. The "dealer" instructs the other player(s) to call out "smoke" if they see a black card, and "fire" if they see a red. They hold up the deck and take the cards one by one off the bottom as the other player(s) call out "smoke" ... "smoke" ... "smoke" ... and, with the first red card, "fire!" On hearing "fire", the "dealer" riffles the cards (as if to shuffle them) into the air, "firing" the entire deck of cards toward the other player(s).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/52_Pickup
I think it falls under the category of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."Quote: NareedSpeaking of that, shouldn't the basic, no frills, one hand VP get updated graphics and sounds? Of course many of the machines now in use must ahve been there since the 90s or so, but, really, pixelated images in 2013?
Quote: tringlomaneEventually. But hasn't it stuck around in Vegas for over 10 years now? I don't think I have ever seen the game outside of Vegas though; any casinos in a non-touristy area couldn't support the game for sure.
Shufflemaster distributes it, so.....
1. They can sell it, they will get some place to install a new game on the (powerful) request.
2. They're willing to have some games that'll have a few dozen installs - also like mini-Pai Gow. It is all income when you think about it. You have ten games each with 50 out-of-the-way installs, it's just a bit more work than having one 500-install Godzilla. On games like this, if there's ever a problem, it's a "fax in the service request, and we'll fax you back what to do....gimme a crayon..." kind of thing, I assume.
3. I would have LOVED to have been in on the pitch meeting for the sale of the game to SHFL. Casino War....it's cool, crisp....refreshing! So easy, a tourist can play it!! Now THAT gives a sale, to quote - "so easy a tourist can play it." $$$.
And it's been out a while. I'm beginning to think that to kill it, you'll need a silver bullet and a crucifix.
Quote: DJTeddyBearI think it falls under the category of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Basically. Most people hate WMS My Poker, and I'm not sure if people would like it better even if they offered the same paytables. What's funny is they tried to offer a bunch of customized things that only serious VP players may care about, and then they crap on the paytables...lol
I see War in every casino I visit. That means several AC casinos as well as the Sands in PA. And the often have crowds.Quote: tringlomaneEventually. But hasn't it stuck around in Vegas for over 10 years now? I don't think I have ever seen the game outside of Vegas though; any casinos in a non-touristy area couldn't support the game for sure.
I could swear I saw two of them at Bally's LV last May. 2012.
Gotta wonder if the fact that it was in Vegas Vacation helped, or not. Or if it was even mentioned!Quote: Paigowdan3. I would have LOVED to have been in on the pitch meeting for the sale of the game to SHFL. Casino War....it's cool, crisp....refreshing! So easy, a tourist can play it!! Now THAT gives a sale, to quote - "so easy a tourist can play it." $$$..
Quote: DJTeddyBearI see War in every casino I visit. That means several AC casinos as well as the Sands in PA. And the often have crowds.
I could swear I saw two of them at Bally's LV last May.
Hmm...okay, won't survive in any Midwest casino I have been to I guess. And 2 tables would be quite nuts, imo.
Quote: Wizard
Trivia Time! What do these two games have in common?
I'm not sure if this is correct but
I would say that 'even money' Blackjack, from a shoe, is the worst game in the casino.
Quote: IbeatyouracesSpeaking of Mississippi Stud, I'm currently watching a guy bet $25 on the ante and being allowed to bet LESS on third, fourth and fifth streets.
Less, like he's playing them for $5? Could he also bet the full $75 on 4th & 5th if he hit a hand on 3rd?
Quote: tringlomaneHmm...okay, won't survive in any Midwest casino I have been to I guess. And 2 tables would be quite nuts, imo.
I know there was at least one at Bally's a few months back; I blew out my bankroll for the time being on craps there and spent about half an hour watching somebody play 100$ war until the rest of my group finished up.
Quote: rdw4potusIn terms of slot design, I've always wondered about one thing that seems to be fairly common with bonus symbols. On 3x5 and 4x5 games with bonus symbols on all 5 reels, there's almost always a line in the rules that says "the bonus is triggered when 3 or more bonus symbols appear on an active payline." But that's not actually how it works. The bonus is triggered when that happens and the bonus symbols are also in sequence beginning with the left-most reel. Based on what the rules actually say, symbols on reels 3, 4, and 5 should start the bonus and they don't.
There is almost always a rule which says something to the effect of, "All symbols pay on consecutive reels, starting with the leftmost reel," with a possible exception for scatter symbols. The two rules taken in conjunction with each other define the game's actual behavior. They typically do not reiterate the first rule when describing the second rule.
Quote: rdw4potusThere's a similar issue on slots with parent and child reels, like Gems Gems Gems. The rules say that 3 bonus symbols in any game start the bonus. But that isn't how it actually works. symbols on reels 1, 3, and 5 start the bonus, but it's possible on the child games to get more than one bonus symbol per reel and a 1, 1, 5 combination satisfies the rules and does not start the bonus.
I have a feeling that there is something being overlooked here too. Help screens are designed like laws or insurance manuals; bits and pieces might be scattered but collectively all bases are covered in one way or another.
Quote: AndyGBWhat's the worst game that has made it?
Caribbean Stud has to be near the top of the list. The house edge is over 5%, and not only must the stars align for you to be dealt a winning hand, but the planets must align too in order to get paid for it. It's sick that the most likely outcome when you are dealt a royal flush is to win even money on your Ante and have your Play bet push. Maybe the royal flush you get after another 650,000 hands will be up against a qualifying dealer hand...
Yes, that recent replay of Las Vegas Vacation showed Casino War as well as such nonsense as Rock Paper Scissors and Guess Which Hand being played.Quote: DJTeddyBearIt continues to amaze me that Casino War is still around. Hell, it looks like its actually gaining ground!
I would love to encourage Game Designers by showing the absurdity of some games that have already made it, but I don't really know many games that have been released and then flubbed in the casino. Perhaps its best to remember that tastes change and what is trendy today just might last or it just might evaporate.
If the game was fun and not too difficult for the dealers to learn, it probably had a fair trial. Not a perfect trial... just a fair one.
Faro was played throughout the American West and yet it totally disappeared.
