Yall
Yall
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
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February 13th, 2011 at 9:21:39 AM permalink
Hi Gang, long time reader, 1st time poster.

My wife and I recently went to the Hamburg NY Raceway/Casino to practice a little VP before our next trip to Vegas. While sitting at the bar playing VP the woman sitting next to us claimed that if you were dealt a winning hand, regardless of which cards you held or not, you would end up with the same hand or better. For example, if you were dealt three-of-a-kind, you could re-draw all five cards and would be guranteed a three-of-a-kind after the 5 cards had been redealt.

I was ready to dismiss her theory, but she showed me a few times on her machine, and since we were only playing quarters I decided to give it a try myself. After maybe 10 attempts, it worked every time. This lead to a lot of questions that I was hoping might be answered here:

1. Is this normal or something limited to State operated casinos in some attempt to make VP idiot proof?
2. What effect does this have on house edge?
3. Does this imply some level of non-randomness in the game?

Without knowing the above, I've been hesitant to play there since this little discovery. Anyone else have a similar experience?
JB
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JB
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February 13th, 2011 at 9:31:23 AM permalink
They aren't truly random video poker games. You are likely playing a Class II machine, which is bingo presented as something other than bingo. In the case of video poker, your win (or loss) is determined at the time you play the game. Throwing away a winning hand will force the machine to give it back to you on the draw because it was already determined what you would win. A normal (Class III) video poker machine does not behave in this manner.

There is no way (that I know of) to know the house edge of a Class II video poker machine. The reason why it is a Class II machine is because New York most likely does not allow Class III machines.
Yall
Yall
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
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February 13th, 2011 at 9:34:54 AM permalink
Quote: JB

They aren't truly random video poker games. You are likely playing a Class II machine, which is bingo presented as something other than bingo. In the case of video poker, your win (or loss) is determined at the time you play the game. Throwing away a winning hand will force the machine to give it back to you on the draw because it was already determined what you would win. A normal (Class III) video poker machine does not behave in this manner.

There is no way (that I know of) to know the house edge of a Class II video poker machine. The reason why it is a Class II machine is because New York most likely does not allow Class III machines.



Thanks. I just read up a bit more on the subject (wasn't aware of the various classes) and it seems that some people think the NYS machines pay out about 92%. Thanks but no thanks. I'll drive to Niagara Falls instead. ;)
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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February 13th, 2011 at 2:24:25 PM permalink
Yeah, on a Class II poker machine, your final hand is decided upon the initial draw, not after you discard and re-draw.

I.E. If you're dealt trips, and throw one away, you'll get the fourth one on the re-draw.

But I've always wondered what would happen...

Suppose you were dealt trips, and your pre-determined final hand was quads, but you threw one away?

What if you were dealt a straight-flush, and you discarded one of the inside cards?


Would the machine:

A) Violate the standard deck simulation and deal you a discard?
B) Punish you for your stupidity by giving you the next best paying hand?
C) Tilt, requiring a slot technician?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
JB
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JB
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February 13th, 2011 at 4:00:52 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

But I've always wondered what would happen...

Suppose you were dealt trips, and your pre-determined final hand was quads, but you threw one away?

What if you were dealt a straight-flush, and you discarded one of the inside cards?

Would the machine:

A) Violate the standard deck simulation and deal you a discard?
B) Punish you for your stupidity by giving you the next best paying hand?
C) Tilt, requiring a slot technician?


Technically none of the above, but choice A is closest. It will have some sort of 'wild card' or 'match card' that appears on the draw, assuming the position (and rank/suit) of the card you should have held but discarded.
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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February 13th, 2011 at 4:51:25 PM permalink
Quote: Yall

My wife and I recently went to the Hamburg NY Raceway/Casino to practice a little VP before our next trip to Vegas.



http://wizardofodds.com/play/videopoker/

cheaper to practice at the above.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
Wavy70
Wavy70
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
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February 13th, 2011 at 5:01:00 PM permalink
Quote: JB

Technically none of the above, but choice A is closest. It will have some sort of 'wild card' or 'match card' that appears on the draw, assuming the position (and rank/suit) of the card you should have held but discarded.



In all of the NY racinos I have been to if you discard a straight flush even if you do not get the straight flush again a "Genie" appears and will change cards till you get the hand again.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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February 13th, 2011 at 5:36:24 PM permalink
A few years back I went to one of the NYS racinos and was amazed to find a 5-7-10 DB machine with a free "2nd hand". I knew that a fair machine would be playing well over 100 percent. I didn't realize until I got home that I was playing on a class II machine. My odds were at 93 percent, though I felt good about my $22 win.

At the racinos, essentially, play what you want. They're all the same!
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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February 13th, 2011 at 5:51:30 PM permalink
I view these machines as utterly dishonest and deceptive. There's no sign saying in three-inch letters, "THIS ISN'T REALLY A VIDEO POKER MACHINE!!!", and in the absence of such a sign, a player might think that it is what it looks like.

I suppose that state "regulatory agencies" that are actually casino lapdogs have come up with some justification for this misleading and dishonest casino tactic, but whatever it is, I don't buy it. These machines are bullshit, plain and simple.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw

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