Best Vegas experience with multi-hand VP
So, which casino(s) would you recommend for playing multi-hand VP? Including paytables, certainly, but also other things like:
How easy it is to get there, how much did it cost (cab, bus, rental, walk), what's the players club like, what's the drinks service like, what's the best time of say to go, hwo crowded is it, how's the casino overall and what other good games can you find there, stuff like that.
I liked the Rampart when I visited last year with teddys and the Wizard. I made out ok, too, playing 10 hand NSUD at, as I recall, $0.10 betting max coin per hand. The drinks service seemed quite good; I didn't drink, but the others did and even played double the tip trivia games with the waitress (one question i recall "how did Dorothy kill the wicked witch?". The casino is very nice, not loud at all and easy to navigate. I did not check out the other games, but they did have 100X craps (dind't see the minimums). I don't know the players club well, but the lines were short and when I got my card they gave me a T-shirt. This was all after lunch.
On the downside you either get there with a rental car or by cab. There's no way to get there by bus, though you can get close and then get a cab for the rest of the way. Either way those are added expenses if, like me, you don't rent a car in Vegas. I probably wouldn't go back, unless I got a ride again.
Quote: mkl654321Do you care about the paytables? It's relatively easy to find multi-line VP in Vegas, but it's pretty hard to find DECENT multi-line VP.
What would you say is the average downgrade as a result of playing multiline? For example, here in MN one of the best single line VP games is 8/5 JOB (returns can't exceed 98%) but the multiline machines are all 7/5 or (more often) 6/5. Is that same 2.5ish% downgrade what I could expect on average in LV? Would LV be like 8/5 or 8/6 multiline versus 9/6 single line?
Quote: rdw4potusWhat would you say is the average downgrade as a result of playing multiline? For example, here in MN one of the best single line VP games is 8/5 JOB (returns can't exceed 98%) but the multiline machines are all 7/5 or (more often) 6/5. Is that same 2.5ish% downgrade what I could expect on average in LV? Would LV be like 8/5 or 8/6 multiline versus 9/6 single line?
It's the same, only you stand to lose more because you play, and bet, more hands per hour.
What I like about multi-hand machines is the chance to get a really big payoff from a good initial deal. Things like 3 deuces in the starting hand, or some form of trips. Of course the variance is worse, too, which is why I look for cheaper games and/or a lower number of hands per game (ten rather than 50 or 100, for instance).
Quote: NareedIt's the same, only you stand to lose more because you play, and bet, more hands per hour.
What I like about multi-hand machines is the chance to get a really big payoff from a good initial deal. Things like 3 deuces in the starting hand, or some form of trips. Of course the variance is worse, too, which is why I look for cheaper games and/or a lower number of hands per game (ten rather than 50 or 100, for instance).
I've just started playing more VP, and I didn't really play much in Vegas when I was there. How easy is it to find full-pay multi-line machines? At the casinos here, the multi-game, multi-line pay tables are much worse than the paytables on the single game, single line machines.
(1) South Point. 50-100 hand NSUD at $0.05 a hand. Good drink service. $0.75 hot dogs. Excellent comps and cash back. Downside: hard to get to, but I think there is a direct bus. Decor is kind of the plain vanilla bland of casinos.
(2) Rampart. For all the reasons you mentioned.
(3) Palms. 50-play 9/6 JOB at $0.01. Triple and Five-play NSUD and JOB at $0.25 and up. Decent drink service. Nice atmosphere and music. Easy to get to. Good cashback and comps. Good promos. Lotsa free stuff and multipliers if you play on the day you sign up for a card.
(4) Gold Coast. Three and Five play Super Times Pay JOB at $0.25 and Multistrike NSUD at $0.25. You very rarely find those "bonus games" on full pay machines. Good drink service. Good cashback on multiplier days. Very easy to get hotel and food offers for the future. Kind of a grind joint atmosphere but good food and drink options. Lots of Asians and locals.
(5) Ellis Island. 3/5/10 hand multiplay JOB in $.05/$.10/$.25. Good slot club with free goodies upon sign up. Good restaurant with big portions at cheap prices. The localist of the locals' joints. VERY frequent drink service. Downside: NO atmosphere, unlike darkness counts as a theme.
Quote: rdw4potusI've just started playing more VP, and I didn't really play much in Vegas when I was there. How easy is it to find full-pay multi-line machines? At the casinos here, the multi-game, multi-line pay tables are much worse than the paytables on the single game, single line machines.
To the best of my knowledge, there are no over 100% return multiline games anywhere in Vegas. There are scattered "fullpay" multiline games at the Palms, South Point, Ellis Island, and a few other places, but that is only for -EV games such as NSUD, JOB, and DDB.
Quote: rdw4potusWhat would you say is the average downgrade as a result of playing multiline? For example, here in MN one of the best single line VP games is 8/5 JOB (returns can't exceed 98%) but the multiline machines are all 7/5 or (more often) 6/5. Is that same 2.5ish% downgrade what I could expect on average in LV? Would LV be like 8/5 or 8/6 multiline versus 9/6 single line?
As a rule of thumb, a multiline game is two steps downward from the fullpay version. So, for instance, Deuces games are 15/9 "Illinois Deuces" or "Airport Deuces", Double Bonus is 9/6, and even the already wretched DDB gets knocked down to 8/5 or worse. Every downgrade of a paying hand costs in the neighborhood of 1.1%, so the multiline version of a popular game is usually more than 2% worse than its fullpay version. In a casino where there isn't any fullpay anyway, the downgrade is less severe on a relative basis, but it's still twice as much HA or more.
One exception to the above is JOB, which can sometimes be found in 9/6 "fullpay" versions on multiliners. It's a good game if you like lots of coin-in with low variance, which is why many casinos with decent cashback/point accumulation have yanked it from their inventory.
All in all, you get really screwed over playing multiline, which makes no logical sense, since you're betting considerably more money. In many casinos several years ago (I'm thinking Gold Coast and Stations in particular), the good paytables lasted until somebody got a dealt royal and a big handpay, and then the slot manager went berserk and ordered the slashing of ALL the paytables on ALL multiline games. One slot floorman told me about a slot manager going apeshit because "SOME GUY WON TWENTY GRAND ON A NICKEL GAME!!!!!!!!!" Of course, at 100-play, that guy was betting $25/hand, so he got the same payout he would have gotten for a dealt royal on a regular $5 machine---but that logic fell on deaf ears.
Quote: teddysMy picks:
Thanks!
I may check out South Point. Definitely the Palms, which is easy to get to. 50 play at .01 sounds good. Signing up for a card, well, watch out for more posts in the GLBT section, I've been mulling over that problem.
Question, the Gold Coast is the hotel near the Palms and Rio, or am I confusing it with the Sun Coast again?
Quote: rdw4potusI've just started playing more VP, and I didn't really play much in Vegas when I was there. How easy is it to find full-pay multi-line machines? At the casinos here, the multi-game, multi-line pay tables are much worse than the paytables on the single game, single line machines.
As teddys said, there's full pay JOB in some places. I have never seen nor heard of any multiline full pay DW, just NSUD (not so ugly ducks), but I'm also nto done with VPFree yet.
It's a very different game. The stakes can get very high, for one thing, and above ten hands you have to take the machine's word for your winnings, or spend a lot of time checking out minute pictures on the screen. As I understand each hand is dealt from its own virtual deck, but the cards you hold in the first ahnd are held in all hands. That's why a dealt good hand, before discards, can pay a lot. I dream of being dealt four deuces ( a dealt royal is way beyond dreams).
Yep. Right across the side street from the Rio and just down and across Flamingo from the Palms.Quote: Nareed... Question, the Gold Coast is the hotel near the Palms and Rio,...?
Quote: DocYep. Right across the side street from the Rio and just down and across Flamingo from the Palms.
You'd think I know having stayed at the Rio and having seen the Gold Coast every day for a week (but not having walked there!) But I'm easily mixed up by similar names, or names that I think are similar.
Quote: boymimboMKL is generally right about reduced odds. At Casino Niagara, the best machines for VP are the 50 play nickel Super Aces at 98.85 percent. Otherwise, you don't really find anything above 98 percent there, except for a bank of Super Times Pay machines at about 98.1 percent for deuces. I miss the days when they had full pay Pick-em at 99.95 percent!!!
How long as the PICKEM play at Niagara been gone?
Quote: boymimboAt least a couple of years. It's still there at the lower pays. I think they were competing with Seneca who also had the machines.
Was at Niagara in August of 2009 and the machines were still there.
Does Seneca have any currently?
What are the best plays at Seneca?
