Sequential Royal Strategy
assuming there is much playing differences, id guess in a game like (kings+) joker poker, normal strat looking like this:
2 Pair
3 to a Natural Royal Flush TJQ
1 Pair KK
3 to a Natural Royal Flush TJK; TQK; JQK
1 Pair AA
3 to a Natural Royal Flush TJA; TQA; TKA; JQA; JKA; QKA
there might be deviations in hands like Ts Js Qs Jc Qd since we have the first 3 cards being a potential seq. royal. how can i know if the hold here is TJQ or JJQQ and know the cost between the two holds?
im looking for a COMPUTER PERFECT ANALYZER for sequential royal games.
side note, how much difference is there in a sequential royal game of say joker poker (kings+) vs a normal royal game? obviously this is known by inputting into a house edge calculator, but i mean if you make 0 deviations vs trying to play computer perfect sequential strategy, what difference in edge would that make?
Quote: ThatDonGuyThe problem is, the vast increase in the number of hands - there are 120 times as many hands when their order matters, plus when you draw more than one card, the number of possible draws increases as their order matters as well - makes this sort of analysis difficult. An analyzer that works for most 52-card deck games won't work here.
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I couldn't have said it better myself.
Somewhere I addressed this with using a modified royal pay based on the expected royal win if you have hope of a sequential royal. Maybe I'll make an Ask the Wizard question out of it.
Quote: WizardQuote: ThatDonGuyThe problem is, the vast increase in the number of hands - there are 120 times as many hands when their order matters, plus when you draw more than one card, the number of possible draws increases as their order matters as well - makes this sort of analysis difficult. An analyzer that works for most 52-card deck games won't work here.
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I couldn't have said it better myself.
Somewhere I addressed this with using a modified royal pay based on the expected royal win if you have hope of a sequential royal. Maybe I'll make an Ask the Wizard question out of it.
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Can it be solved using the same method you used for ACE$ Bonus in your analyzer and strategy maker, except for a little twist where it is royal cards in the right positions instead of the aces?
A) how can 1.000459 be determined if the correct playing strategy cant be determined?
B) with 0 strategy deviations from the standard royal game, what would the new payback be when playing the sequential royal version vs the standard version? it has to lie somewhere between 0.999763 and 1.000459, but where exactly would it be? how can that be determined?
These are important numbers to me for what I am tackling, thanks in advance :)
Answer for (B):
With no strategy changes, the only difference in return will be that 1/60th of your RF's will be SRF's and so will receive a bonus.
If the normal RF pays 800 coins per coin (so 4000 coins for a normal 5-coin wager) and the SRF pays, I don't know, let's guess 8000, and the RF cycle is, say, 45,000 hands, then every 45,000*60 = 2,700,000 hands you'll get a bonus of 8000 - 800 = 7200 coins. Thus, the return for the SRF game will be 7200/2,700,000 = 0.0027 higher than for the non-SRF game.
Obviously, plug in the correct values for the cycle (which is 1/(RF probability)) and the SRF bonus for your own game.
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
Edit: above I tacitly assumed that both 10-J-Q-K-A and A-K-Q-J-10 count as SRF's. If only one qualifies, then change the factor of 60 to 120 in the analysis.
With four to a sequential royal, the average royal win is 2000.
With three to a sequential royal, the average royal win is 1400.
With two to a sequential royal, the average royal win is 1000.
With one to a sequential royal in the middle position, the average royal win is 850.
With one to a sequential royal not in the middle position, the average royal win is 820.
If you have a possible sequential royal, put these average royal wins into my Video Poker hand analyzer to get the best play.
If you're conflicted about throwing away a potential card to a non-sequential royal, then run it both ways to go with the player with the greater expected value. However, I tend to think this will seldom be an issue. In general, don't throw away cards to a regular royal to chase a sequential one.
Note: Corrected 6:17 AM 5/27/25
Quote: WizardAssuming a sequential royal pays 10,000 (or 2,000 per credit bet), here is my advice. All wins are expressed as per credit bet.
With four to a sequential royal, the average royal win is 1100.
With three to a sequential royal, the average royal win is 875.
With two to a sequential royal, the average royal win is 819.
I think it's not worth discussion for only one card to a sequential royal.
If you have a possible sequential royal, put these average royal wins into my Video Poker hand analyzer to get the best play.
If you're conflicted about throwing away a potential card to a non-sequential royal, then run it both ways to go with the player with the greater expected value. However, I tend to think this will seldom be an issue. In general, don't throw away cards to a regular royal to chase a sequential one.
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Wiz,
I am confused by your answer. If I am dealt 4c Js Qs Ks As and I toss the 4c, then the only possible RF is a SRF, so shouldn't the "average royal win" be 2000 for 4SRF?
Similarly, if I am dealt 4c 5c Qs Ks As and I toss the 4c and 5c, then I can draw 10s Js for the SRF, or Js 10s for the regular RF. Since these two draws are equally likely, shouldn't the "average royal win" be (2000 + 800)/2 = 1400 for 3SRF?
By similar reasoning, for three to a SRF, one-sixth of the RF draws will be a SRF, so shouldn't the "average royal win" be (2000 + 5*800)/6 = 1000 for 2SRF?
Finally, If I am dealt Js 4c Qs Ks As, then a SRF in spades is impossible, so what did you mean by "In general, don't throw away cards to a regular royal to chase a sequential one."?
Dog Hand
Quote: DogHandI am confused by your answer. If I am dealt 4c Js Qs Ks As and I toss the 4c, then the only possible RF is a SRF, so shouldn't the "average royal win" be 2000 for 4SRF?
Similarly, if I am dealt 4c 5c Qs Ks As and I toss the 4c and 5c, then I can draw 10s Js for the SRF, or Js 10s for the regular RF. Since these two draws are equally likely, shouldn't the "average royal win" be (2000 + 800)/2 = 1400 for 3SRF?
By similar reasoning, for three to a SRF, one-sixth of the RF draws will be a SRF, so shouldn't the "average royal win" be (2000 + 5*800)/6 = 1000 for 2SRF?
Finally, If I am dealt Js 4c Qs Ks As, then a SRF in spades is impossible, so what did you mean by "In general, don't throw away cards to a regular royal to chase a sequential one."?
Dog Hand
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You're absolutely right. I have corrected my original post.
Quote: blueman777yes ty. i think i figured out the strategy here, but still curious how the house edge is so quickly calculable but the perfect strategy is so hard to analyze. once i knew what to do i figured out the optimal strategy within a few minutes
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Because the assumption used to calculate the house edge is misleading.
Suppose you are dealt 10s Js 7s 3s 8h. You have two to a sequential Royal.
On the other hand, suppose you are dealt Js 7s 10s 8h 3s. You don't have any cards in a sequential Royal.
However, the strategy calculator will treat both of these hands the same.
If it tells you to keep the Js 10s, it may be overvaluing the possible Royal in the second instance.
Another example: you are dealt 10s Js Kh 10h Qh. The "just plug a higher payout into the Royal" will tell you to keep the three hearts, but is that the better play?
