dhanks
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October 17th, 2021 at 6:57:36 AM permalink
Triple Wheel poker is a VP variation that includes a bonus spin of a “bronze”, “silver” or “gold” wheel if a player bets an extra amount. Whether a bonus is triggered depends on the initial deal. For Jacks or Better variations, the odds of getting one of those initial deals is easily found here.

What I would like to know is the initial deal odds for select hands in the Deuces Wild variation since the hands that trigger a wheel are very different from the Jacks or Better variations as spelled out below.

Jacks or Better initial deal hands by wheel type:
Bronze: 3 of a kind
Silver: straight or flush
Gold: 4 of a kind or full house

Deuces Wild initial deal hands by wheel type:
Bronze: full house, straight or flush
Silver: 4 of a kind
Gold: 5 of a kind, straight flush or royal w/deuces

So, does anyone know of a resource where this information can be found or maybe how to compute it? I want to know if I get a better chance of getting an initial deal resulting in a wheel trigger in Deuces Wild than I do in Jacks or Better (about 1 in 31 deals on average). Thanks!
Last edited by: dhanks on Oct 17, 2021
Dieter
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October 17th, 2021 at 7:02:41 AM permalink
Welcome to the forum.

Your link isn't coming through because of the probation period.

Was it perhaps https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/wheel-poker/ ?
May the cards fall in your favor.
dhanks
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October 17th, 2021 at 7:19:06 AM permalink
No, that’s not it. How can I get you the correct link? If you search “video poker initial deal odds” you should see the correct link at the Video Poker info website that is returned.

Thanks for the welcome and for letting me know!
Dieter
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October 17th, 2021 at 7:45:54 AM permalink
https://www.videopokerinfo.com/handodds.htm

That seems to cover the non-wild games.

Hopefully one of our experts can locate or calculate the deal odds for deuces wild variants, which are quite different.
May the cards fall in your favor.
dhanks
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:05:33 AM permalink
Yes, precisely, it’s the deuces wild initial deal odds that have proven elusive despite hours of trying to find them.
Mission146
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:19:10 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

https://www.videopokerinfo.com/handodds.htm

That seems to cover the non-wild games.

Hopefully one of our experts can locate or calculate the deal odds for deuces wild variants, which are quite different.
link to original post



Wizard has already done it:

https://wizardofodds.com//games/video-poker/tables/lucky-stud-draw-poker/

This is a game by which four stud games are played (that offer multipliers and pays if the hand is won) after the player makes his holding decision on the bottom hand---which is a draw hand.

While the stud hands can pay for Two Pair and Jacks or Better on the Deuces Wild game, higher ranking hands (Trips+) would supersede these ranks. Therefore, the dealt five-card stud hands for Deuces Wild, from that chart, can also be used for this game, as applicable.

If you scroll down to Deuces Wild, the first chart that you will see has the probabilities for the dealt hands.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
dhanks
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:23:03 AM permalink
Excellent! Thanks so much! I was not looking in the right place!

Edit:
Using that table reveals that a wheel of any kind is triggered an average of 1 in 21 deals in Deuces as opposed to 1 in 35 for Jacks or better, if I’ve done my math right. I think this must mean that the EV for the wheels in deuces is less than that for the other variants.
Last edited by: dhanks on Oct 17, 2021
Mission146
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:27:38 AM permalink
Can you confirm that you don't get a wheel for a dealt Full House? I don't see it listed in your OP.

Anyway, if you want the overall odds of getting a dealt wheel, just take one and divide it by the cumulative probabilities of the dealt hands needed.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:29:32 AM permalink
Quote: dhanks

Excellent! Thanks so much! I was not looking in the right place!
link to original post



Me either, the first eight games I looked at!

I also seem to recall a game that simply paid on the deal (different paytable) and also paid for the hand drawn---which I found, but there was no Deuces variant on that page...even though I think one exists. I want to say I saw it in Atlantic City on an old-school machine at Golden Nugget or Trump Taj Mahal (now Hard Rock), but could be mistaken.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Dieter
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:36:50 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: dhanks

Excellent! Thanks so much! I was not looking in the right place!
link to original post



Me either, the first eight games I looked at!

I also seem to recall a game that simply paid on the deal (different paytable) and also paid for the hand drawn---which I found, but there was no Deuces variant on that page...even though I think one exists. I want to say I saw it in Atlantic City on an old-school machine at Golden Nugget or Trump Taj Mahal (now Hard Rock), but could be mistaken.
link to original post



That sounds like either Deal Draw or Double Pay
May the cards fall in your favor.
dhanks
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:41:59 AM permalink
Full house should be there. I missed that. Post edited to reflect that. Thanks!
dhanks
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:44:27 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Can you confirm that you don't get a wheel for a dealt Full House? I don't see it listed in your OP.

Anyway, if you want the overall odds of getting a dealt wheel, just take one and divide it by the cumulative probabilities of the dealt hands needed.
link to original post



Yes, that’s the easy part and what I did. Also, I fixed the OP. Full house should be there.
Mission146
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:54:38 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter


That sounds like either Deal Draw or Double Pay
link to original post



I think Double Pay is the one I am thinking of...my mistake. I must have missed it in the list here:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/basics/#return-tables

Fortunately, I found the other one. I think I missed Double Pay because I was expecting it to be called, "Deal Draw," which is what I think the game I saw in AC was called, but couldn't swear to it.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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October 17th, 2021 at 8:55:43 AM permalink
Quote: dhanks

Quote: Mission146

Can you confirm that you don't get a wheel for a dealt Full House? I don't see it listed in your OP.

Anyway, if you want the overall odds of getting a dealt wheel, just take one and divide it by the cumulative probabilities of the dealt hands needed.
link to original post



Yes, that’s the easy part and what I did. Also, I fixed the OP. Full house should be there.
link to original post



By all means, post the result please! When I saw that you were online, I figured you would do it and post it.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
dhanks
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October 17th, 2021 at 9:16:34 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: dhanks

Quote: Mission146

Can you confirm that you don't get a wheel for a dealt Full House? I don't see it listed in your OP.

Anyway, if you want the overall odds of getting a dealt wheel, just take one and divide it by the cumulative probabilities of the dealt hands needed.
link to original post



Yes, that’s the easy part and what I did. Also, I fixed the OP. Full house should be there.
link to original post



By all means, post the result please! When I saw that you were online, I figured you would do it and post it.
link to original post



Deuces is a wheel every 21 deals on average as opposed to every 35 in Jacks or Better variants. This must mean the wheel weights are different for Deuces, I think.
Last edited by: dhanks on Oct 17, 2021
Mission146
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October 17th, 2021 at 10:16:56 AM permalink
Probably true, but then the probability of each type of wheel might also be relevant.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
dhanks
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October 17th, 2021 at 10:46:24 AM permalink
No doubt. This trip down the rabbit hole has me discovering an initially counter intuitive thing about deuces is that it’s more likely one gets dealt a 4 of a kind than a full house or a straight.
Mission146
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October 17th, 2021 at 11:00:03 AM permalink
The straight might be a bit counterintuitive, but I don’t think the Full House one is.

A Deuces FH basically only occurs by way of a natural Full House without any deuces or a natural Two Pair (neither two of the pairs can be deuces) with a deuce.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
dhanks
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October 17th, 2021 at 1:23:49 PM permalink
Ah, crap. It’s flush and FH that’s less likely, not straight. Same logic applies to that, no doubt.
Mission146
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October 17th, 2021 at 1:57:49 PM permalink
Quote: dhanks

Ah, crap. It’s flush and FH that’s less likely, not straight. Same logic applies to that, no doubt.
link to original post



Dealt Flush becomes much more likely than standard Video Poker, but basically the same logic on quads. You could look at dealt trips with a deuce anywhere in it (which becomes quads) as a combinatorial problem that I might do next time I’m on a proper computer. Beyond that, two pair with deuces becomes quads…three deuces dealt is quads worst case scenario—-etc.

It’s really just how likely dealt quads becomes, more than anything.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
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