3for3
3for3
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November 15th, 2021 at 4:01:53 AM permalink
Say you have a pay table that is 125%, on a 10 play quarter machine. Every time you play a hand, it is worth $6.25. Further, let's say if you hit a certain hand it takes you below 100%, so you will stop. If you have a spot where you can choose between 2 plays, and the ev difference is less than $6.25, clearly you should make the play that keeps the edge for future hands. The question is how much EV on the current hand should we forego to keep the play alive?

I do understand that deferring value to future hands means the current hand was not 125%, however, this is at least somewhat compensated for by 1. We might get even better multipliers the next hand, or 2. We might get multiple hands with the same multiplier, not just 1.
3for3
3for3
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November 15th, 2021 at 8:13:23 AM permalink
Another way to think about this. Say there is a machine that has some serious multipliers. A Straight is worth $1000 on a .05 cent machine, and you are playing 3 play. You are guaranteed to get $3000 if you just make sure you don't get 1 straight. In the meantime, you are losing some EV. On average, it will take about 250 hands or about $400 to get your $3K. If this was the case, you'd literally never make a play that might result in a single straight. 4 to a royal? Nope. Redraw? No. J9875? Got to hold the J5.

While this is an obviously absurd example, it does highlight the point that playing for the future is vital in this game.
Mission146
Mission146
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November 15th, 2021 at 12:00:37 PM permalink
I understand what you’re saying now and agree that would especially be a consideration in ten play. The only problem is how much does the, “Make impossible,” strategy take away from the total value of the play.

Similarly, if a ton of the value is in multiplied quads, a person is certainly not going to wait to get those dealt, though I do understand what you’re saying on not uncommon dealt hands.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
3for3
3for3
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Mission146
November 15th, 2021 at 5:20:55 PM permalink
Sure, for quads, there would be literally zero changes (as an aside, I got dealt Quads 2 times today). Straights and Flushes are much easier to get dealt, or get multiple versions of. In 3 play, I'd probably just go for the max right away, as you suggest. It is the 10 play where that strategy leaves a lot of $ on the table.
Mission146
Mission146
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November 15th, 2021 at 7:03:44 PM permalink
Quote: 3for3

Sure, for quads, there would be literally zero changes (as an aside, I got dealt Quads 2 times today). Straights and Flushes are much easier to get dealt, or get multiple versions of. In 3 play, I'd probably just go for the max right away, as you suggest. It is the 10 play where that strategy leaves a lot of $ on the table.
link to original post



I guess you’d have to look at the dealt probabilities and multiply that by the pay after multiplier to get a good approximation of added value. Still, I appreciate the much better way of thinking you’ve given me on the ten play situation.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
3for3
3for3
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November 16th, 2021 at 5:47:30 AM permalink
For straights and flushes, it's not just getting dealt a pat hand, one card draws can produce multiple instances quite easily. Have you found many UX gold in live casinos?
Mission146
Mission146
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November 16th, 2021 at 6:44:10 AM permalink
I haven’t. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’ve only seen one, but this area is a little late to most of the parties.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Jimmy2Times
Jimmy2Times
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November 16th, 2021 at 10:35:39 AM permalink
Quote: coilman

The VP GANG meeting is this Wednesday in Vegas.

Big KATS running a group pull @$200 each to enter. More info on that in this video contact him at his email if you want in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxXV1yEQ5RU&t=71s


Slotsmassacre going to be there for his birthday maybe some LIVE ACTION Wednesday or Thursday night ?
link to original post



I did some research on this Bigkats and his last three group pulls by watching the videos at his computer site on YouTube. The start money ranged from 2200 to 2600 (so that would be 11-13 participants at 2 Hondo's each). Play was mostly single line $5 ($25 per hand) VP. Bigkats switches games from Bonus to Deuces Wild to DDB with an occasional hand or two at TDB, His play seems to be reasonably error free as far as hand choices. To be in a pull you send him your quatloos via something called Venmo and if the result is > 0, Venmo is how you get back your proceeds. Pull in June was 200 in per person with a pay back of 167 per person. Pull in August was 200 in 0 back. Recent pull in November was 200 in and 572 back. For 200 in 572 back is a tidy sum, a tidy sum.
I 'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers.
Jimmy2Times
Jimmy2Times
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November 16th, 2021 at 10:40:41 AM permalink
Forget to put this in the last message. In a video from this recent Nov Vegas trip Slotmassacre said that that $500 ($2500 per hand) VP machine he was thinking about playing had been turned off for play, off for play.
I 'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers.
ChallengedMilly
ChallengedMilly
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December 12th, 2021 at 7:50:08 AM permalink
He spent over an hour playing Ultimate X Gold today on the latest video. Crazy amount of swings in the video. Also a ton of strategic mistakes as you'd expect with a newer ultimate x type game. Really hope Wizard put in some time to get a good strategy going for it, because it's definitely one of those games I want to play at some point in my gambling hobby career.
AlanMendelson
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December 18th, 2021 at 4:55:02 PM permalink
I recently watched a few Slotmassacre videos on YouTube and I'm not sure he deserves the title of advantage player.

First he played some games he did not know the strategy for.

Second he sacrificed dealt winners to go for longshots ala Rob Singer.

Third he played double up on some large wins including a $1000 win.

He's a gambler, not an AP
100xOdds
100xOdds
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December 18th, 2021 at 7:25:06 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I recently watched a few Slotmassacre videos on YouTube and I'm not sure he deserves the title of advantage player.

Third he played double up on some large wins including a $1000 win.
He's a gambler, not an AP
link to original post

My double up

and 3yrs later, i still havent done it again :o
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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December 18th, 2021 at 7:38:56 PM permalink
I'm more like if I'm down 90 coins, I win 45, do I want to try to double up to get back to even?
ChallengedMilly
ChallengedMilly
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December 22nd, 2021 at 3:13:46 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I recently watched a few Slotmassacre videos on YouTube and I'm not sure he deserves the title of advantage player.

First he played some games he did not know the strategy for.

Second he sacrificed dealt winners to go for longshots ala Rob Singer.

Third he played double up on some large wins including a $1000 win.

He's a gambler, not an AP
link to original post

I don't think he calls himself an AP, but he does play favorably with his rebates and freeplay offers. Also he's allowed to branch out and play games he doesn't know strategy on, because it's for YouTube. He makes enough money on yt to more than pay for errors he makes.
ChallengedMilly
ChallengedMilly
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January 8th, 2022 at 6:01:13 PM permalink
Latest videos are up and he lost his ass off playing $125 a spin on some 100 hand JOB/Deuces. Just could not get a flopped nut hand to make any money on. He did end up hitting two royals... but at .25 they didn't really pay off that well.
rsactuary
rsactuary
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January 8th, 2022 at 8:18:21 PM permalink
Quote: ChallengedMilly

Latest videos are up and he lost his ass off playing $125 a spin on some 100 hand JOB/Deuces. Just could not get a flopped nut hand to make any money on. He did end up hitting two royals... but at .25 they didn't really pay off that well.
link to original post



I watched that live. If I recall correctly, he might have lost about $3k. I wouldn't call that losing his ass.

The royals paid the same amount as usual. It's just that it's only 8x his bet when playing 100 play.
AlanMendelson
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January 8th, 2022 at 9:50:21 PM permalink
Quote: rsactuary



The royals paid the same amount as usual. It's just that it's only 8x his bet when playing 100 play.
link to original post



I don't understand "it's only 8x his bet" please explain. Thanks
WTflush
WTflush
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January 9th, 2022 at 1:52:47 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: rsactuary



The royals paid the same amount as usual. It's just that it's only 8x his bet when playing 100 play.
link to original post



I don't understand "it's only 8x his bet" please explain. Thanks
link to original post



If youre playing 100 play .25c denom at max bet it's $125 a spin. A quarter royal pays $1000.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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January 9th, 2022 at 3:50:13 AM permalink
Quote: WTflush

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: rsactuary



The royals paid the same amount as usual. It's just that it's only 8x his bet when playing 100 play.
link to original post



I don't understand "it's only 8x his bet" please explain. Thanks
link to original post



If youre playing 100 play .25c denom at max bet it's $125 a spin. A quarter royal pays $1000.
link to original post



Thank you. Got it.
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