Gandler
Gandler
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Mission146
February 5th, 2020 at 6:48:42 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I don't know, they told me I was committing wire fraud and that I would get to wait to have the police come along and do something with me if I refused to present my ID to them (a state regulated casino). Then you have the dude with the slot tickets confiscated, that's tickets plural, who has been able to talk to the only appropriate gaming person in that state once in four months after having to leave countless voicemails both before and after.



Gaming already does protect the casinos, at least financially. They ruled AGAINST Phil Ivey in actual courts. Twice. Because a casino was stupid enough to believe that a professional poker player was just there to gamble and gave him the easiest edge-sorting conditions possible. I would say that they already are an extra layer of security for casinos (at least when it comes to advantage players) in regulated environments.

You then look at Colorado, the state that will allow for you to be arrested, barred from the casino and fined by the state for accidentally putting your ticket in on top of a machine that has a couple bucks in credits on that. The state is actually imposing a fine in that instance. Casino staff threatens players with all sorts of charges that do not fit any legal definition of the word whatsoever, and if a player were to complain to gaming about this activity and be able to prove it, what would happen? Exactly nothing. Why? Because they make the state money. The relationship with any state with Commercial Gambling and any Tribe to its Government is not THAT much different.

And, again, I would argue that there is more of a monopoly on land gaming properties in the State of Ohio than there could ever hope to be in Oklahoma. You have 30-some tribes, for one thing. Ohio has four casinos.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to do the thing that was discussed in the Thread Darkoz linked to in a Tribal Casino, but aside from that, I'm no more concerned about going into those than I would be anywhere else.




Those were civil cases against Ivey heard by a court (not a gaming commission). The borgata is not stuffing him into a mobile home "police station" and forcing him to hand over all of his possessions and seizing his car. They went through a civil process to recoup losses that were determined to be in violation. I don't necessarily agree with the interpretation of that case. But, it was all public record out in the open.

As for Ohio vs Oklahoma, I would rather have four casinos than 30+.

States fine casinos constantly for violations. The idea that states ignore casino wrongdoing is just wrong.

Yes, many bad casinos employees make empty threats, but how many actually stuff them in a backroom in modern times? Its virtually unheard of. It's a big scandal when security touches somebody to escort them out....

Again, I don't think tribal lands should exist, I dont think states should give them exclusive deals. Even if I I morally supported the existence of tribes, I would not go to their casinos because of the stories. Just like I would not go to a casino with mob ties.
Mission146
Mission146
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February 5th, 2020 at 7:17:12 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Those were civil cases against Ivey heard by a court (not a gaming commission). The borgata is not stuffing him into a mobile home "police station" and forcing him to hand over all of his possessions and seizing his car. They went through a civil process to recoup losses that were determined to be in violation. I don't necessarily agree with the interpretation of that case. But, it was all public record out in the open.

As for Ohio vs Oklahoma, I would rather have four casinos than 30+.

States fine casinos constantly for violations. The idea that states ignore casino wrongdoing is just wrong.

Yes, many bad casinos employees make empty threats, but how many actually stuff them in a backroom in modern times? Its virtually unheard of. It's a big scandal when security touches somebody to escort them out....

Again, I don't think tribal lands should exist, I dont think states should give them exclusive deals. Even if I I morally supported the existence of tribes, I would not go to their casinos because of the stories. Just like I would not go to a casino with mob ties.



Thatís my point, it goes all the way to the courts and he loses. The court system, for the most part, doesnít know jack about gambling, for one thing. Teliot even testified in Iveyís favor, I believe. Point being that the casinos have Government protection in their pocket all the way to the top when it comes right down to it. The player must be doing something bad. Itís not the casino staffís fault for being a bunch of idiots in that particular instance.

Iíll take Oklahoma, better returns, as far as I can tell. Not only that, but Ohio gaming is completely apathetic when it comes to anything player related. Additionally, it seems like I am more likely, in general, to advocate for more available forms of gambling (types and locations) than you are, which is fine. Nothing wrong with us disagreeing on the matter. You have one of the most populated states and only four locations in the entire state that can have tables or video poker, personally, that makes no sense to me. Barely more than ten total (when you include racinos) that can have anything close to real machine gaming.

The states donít always ignore wrongdoing. Itís not like the casinos are likely to kick the crap out of somebody and get away with it anymore, Iím just saying the states could almost all go a lot further in terms of player rights, protections and information access, such as percentage returns being put on all machines. Any state could make that a law anytime it wants to. They wonít, because it would likely not have a positive effect on state revenues, but they could.

I donít care if states give them exclusive deals or not. If they want to legalize Commercial Casinos, thatís fine, but then the tribes get to do whatever they want and donít have to pay the state anything or some very small percentage. The market can then decide whether tribal gambling or commercial gambling is better, or more likely, the market will decide both are fine.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Gandler
Gandler
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Mission146
February 5th, 2020 at 7:20:06 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Thatís my point, it goes all the way to the courts and he loses. The court system, for the most part, doesnít know jack about gambling, for one thing. Teliot even testified in Iveyís favor, I believe. Point being that the casinos have Government protection in their pocket all the way to the top when it comes right down to it. The player must be doing something bad. Itís not the casino staffís fault for being a bunch of idiots in that particular instance.

Iíll take Oklahoma, better returns, as far as I can tell. Not only that, but Ohio gaming is completely apathetic when it comes to anything player related. Additionally, it seems like I am more likely, in general, to advocate for more available forms of gambling (types and locations) than you are, which is fine. Nothing wrong with us disagreeing on the matter. You have one of the most populated states and only four locations in the entire state that can have tables or video poker, personally, that makes no sense to me. Barely more than ten total (when you include racinos) that can have anything close to real machine gaming.

The states donít always ignore wrongdoing. Itís not like the casinos are likely to kick the crap out of somebody and get away with it anymore, Iím just saying the states could almost all go a lot further in terms of player rights, protections and information access, such as percentage returns being put on all machines. Any state could make that a law anytime it wants to. They wonít, because it would likely not have a positive effect on state revenues, but they could.

I donít care if states give them exclusive deals or not. If they want to legalize Commercial Casinos, thatís fine, but then the tribes get to do whatever they want and donít have to pay the state anything or some very small percentage. The market can then decide whether tribal gambling or commercial gambling is better, or more likely, the market will decide both are fine.




Except in states where Tribal lands are granted the sole ability to have casinos.
Mission146
Mission146
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February 5th, 2020 at 7:23:17 PM permalink
I guess the first thing would be that any such arrangement is the fault of the state agreeing to it, not the fault of the tribes. Secondly, the states could just violate the compact, authorize Commercial Casinos, then the tribes can continue to operate, but no longer need to pay the state anything.

Itís not like the two canít co-exist. They do in New York.

Added: And Michigan. I think a few others.
Vultures can't be choosers.
PokerGrinder
PokerGrinder
Joined: Apr 30, 2015
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February 5th, 2020 at 10:17:56 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: tringlomane

.
You won 13k dollars tax free in a month? Pics??? Only vulturing? I wish I've won that in the last 6 years part-time.

Last big hit in April at M Resort. Didn't post the trip, and the last nine trips to Vegas, partly thanks to EvenBob.



Since it was tax-free (not jackpots), why would he take pics?

I don't vulture but I saw someone who does wait about 15 minutes for a player to get up from a vulturable machine. When the vulture had his chance he wound up winning close to $200.

Repeated on a daily basis, hour upon hour it adds up

$13,000 in a month is not difficult to believe.


Trust me Iím not doing that lol. I couldnít be bothered. Iím in and out of the casino in 30-60 mins depending on some of the plays take longer to play off. A couple of my plays can take 30 mins for one play, thatís all Iíll say. I have about 40-50 machines to check in each casino.

Also DO Iím in Canada so everything is tax free in gambling.

I do have pictures that I like to take of any big hits but they are only posted on an anonymous twitter account because no offence to anyone but Iím not in the business of giving away my plays (that I didnít figure out on my own lol).

Also Iím up 2k more since posting that 13k comment the other day. Easy money!
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. ó Amarillo Slim Preston
Gandler
Gandler
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February 6th, 2020 at 2:37:07 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I guess the first thing would be that any such arrangement is the fault of the state agreeing to it, not the fault of the tribes. Secondly, the states could just violate the compact, authorize Commercial Casinos, then the tribes can continue to operate, but no longer need to pay the state anything.

Itís not like the two canít co-exist. They do in New York.

Added: And Michigan. I think a few others.



They do. It just sounds like OK, has an extra terrible deal.

But, like I said I am against tribal land existing at all, so its more of a philosophical issue for me.
darkoz
darkoz 
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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Mission146
February 6th, 2020 at 3:19:42 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I guess the first thing would be that any such arrangement is the fault of the state agreeing to it, not the fault of the tribes. Secondly, the states could just violate the compact, authorize Commercial Casinos, then the tribes can continue to operate, but no longer need to pay the state anything.

Itís not like the two canít co-exist. They do in New York.

Added: And Michigan. I think a few others.



They can not only co-exist but share property

In PA both wind Creek Bethlehem and Mohegan sun Poconos are tribal owned but on state land and operate as commercial gaming vs tribal gaming. If you were to get falsely imprisoned in those two casinos you have all legal recourse as any traditional commercial casino
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
DRich
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February 6th, 2020 at 3:41:34 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

They can not only co-exist but share property

In PA both wind Creek Bethlehem and Mohegan sun Poconos are tribal owned but on state land and operate as commercial gaming vs tribal gaming. If you were to get falsely imprisoned in those two casinos you have all legal recourse as any traditional commercial casino



Yes, I believe those are both state licensed casinos being operated by the tribes. They are not Native American casinos.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

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