VP is dead
Look harder.
I understand bemoaning the fact that it is no more, but these are all smart decisions by casinos.
Quote: terapinedVP died for me when the Four Queens got rid of the banks of machine by Magnolias that was full pay Double Bonus with a progressive. I used to fly out to Vegas and stay at the Four Queens just to play those machines.
Twin arrows casino in Flagstaff has 8 quarter VP machines with an average of over 99% and a progressive. You dont earn comps though. I hit a $1,000 quad last week. A lady next to me was playing DW and got nothing on the deal. Drew all 5 cards and hit a natural royal for the $1,600 progressive.
They also have some $1 progressives that were over $8,000 when I was there.
ZCore13
Quote: WizardNot to mention the change in the tax law, making jackpots taxable for most players.
Why wouldn't jackpots be taxable?
Quote: cmlotitoWhy wouldn't jackpots be taxable?
Here are some reasons:
1. The winner doesn't have enough income to be taxed.
2. The winner still itemizes, despite the increase in the standard deduction, so can deduct a gambling loss against it.
3. The winner files as a professional gambler, who have different rules for gambling winnings.
Quote: WizardHere are some reasons:
1. The winner doesn't have enough income to be taxed.
2. The winner still itemizes, despite the increase in the standard deduction, so can deduct a gambling loss against it.
3. The winner files as a professional gambler, who have different rules for gambling winnings.
Thank you.
Quote: WizardHere are some reasons:
1. The winner doesn't have enough income to be taxed.
2. The winner still itemizes, despite the increase in the standard deduction, so can deduct a gambling loss against it.
3. The winner files as a professional gambler, who have different rules for gambling winnings.
Why do professional gamblers have different rules?
To me its somebody in business for themselves. You subtract loses from gains and pay taxes on the diff regardless if your business is gambling or selling something
in the US, the IRS says so. the recreational gambler gambles for a hobby and that is different from a pro gambler that gambles as a business.Quote: terapinedWhy do professional gamblers have different rules?
hobby is so the IRS can get more money. can't blame them playing the game.
Quote: terapinedWhy do professional gamblers have different rules?
To me its somebody in business for themselves. You subtract loses from gains and pay taxes on the diff regardless if your business is gambling or selling something
That is the case now. You have to be a "professional gambler" to deduct gambling losses before itemizing or taking the standard deduction.
Quote: WizardThat is the case now. You have to be a "professional gambler" to deduct gambling losses before itemizing or taking the standard deduction.
The recent tax law allows casual gamblers to deduct some things previously reserved for professionals.
Quote: billryanThe recent tax law allows casual gamblers to deduct some things previously reserved for professionals.
Yes, but you still have to itemize in order to reap those benefits. Which a much larger number of people won't be doing with the increased standard deduction.
Quote: WizardThat is the case now. You have to be a "professional gambler" to deduct gambling losses before itemizing or taking the standard deduction.
If I am not a professional gambler
Why cant I itemize and deduct my losses
Quote: SandybestdogI think that “Excludes video poker” must be mandated at the bottom of every advertisement in Mississippi. Multiple point days are quite common at most casinos in Biloxi. I haven’t found one that included video poker. I signed up at the Hard Rock awhile ago. Nothing on the promo said video poker was excluded. I started playing and after a few minutes realized it was earning 6x points. On top of that they advertised a $300 loss rebate. Again there was nothing on there that said it wasn’t instant and in fact nothing on there that said 3x in 3 different weeks. Well I won’t be playing there anymore.
Sam's town Tunica used to include VP until a few years ago. Roadhouse/Horseshoe give 3X only on VP but 3X/5X/100X on slots for multiplier days. Gf got 100X on my birthday last year at Roadhouse, so we had to play slots instead that night.
Quote: terapinedIf I am not a professional gambler
Why cant I itemize and deduct my losses
You have to have enough deductions to make it worthwhile. The standard deduction has been raised to a level that many people are better off taking that.
Quote: billryanThe recent tax law allows casual gamblers to deduct some things previously reserved for professionals.
Yes, but only benefits you if you made a profit and would have already itemized deductions. Still can't deduct travel and expense if you had a losing year. But if you made money and are above the standard deduction anyway, that would be a nice perk to deduct flights to Vegas and such.
Quote: terapinedIf I am not a professional gambler
Why cant I itemize and deduct my losses
We just had an entire thread on this. Tax Question
Definitely read through it if you are curious. Also, Michael Bluejay's page is a very good summary:
https://vegasclick.com/gambling/taxes
tl;dr: It sucks, and isn't fair at all. Welcome to taxes.
Quote: terapinedIf I am not a professional gambler
Why cant I itemize and deduct my losses
You can, but pros could also deduct expenses for travel, per diem, etc against their winnings. Some of that did change, but those expenses are significant.
Quote: KeyserI'm not a VP AP. Not at all. But I've often thought that a great countermeasure could involve one that changed the payout percentage based on the SPEED of play. Could such a counter exist to deter an advantage player? It seems as though it would probably be illegal if it did exist.
The payout percentage??? Do you mean you'll offer a 100% VP paytable if you play on slowest setting, but if you play on medium or fast, then the paytable would lower to say, 99%? I dont think there is a regulation against this idea, but I doubt any machine on the market can currently do it.
Now if you mean slow down positive video poker machines to yield less hands an hour and therefore a lower expected hourly rate, this definitely does happen in some casinos and is perfectly legal. Speed settings aren't mandated, and many positive games have slower speed settings than average. But I don't think casinos have the capability to selectively slow down play for a certain subset of players.
Quote: bobbartopAs Brit Brit would say, y'gotta work, bitch.
And by the way, I never hear Mickey crying about vp being dead. He's not afraid to work, and he's not afraid to use his brain.
Quote: FinsRuleCasinos should be getting rid of AP. They should also be preventing counters from getting advantages.
I understand bemoaning the fact that it is no more, but these are all smart decisions by casinos.
WRONG!!! Wrong on all counts. (I say while clicking the nonexistent dislike button)
Quote: Zcore13Twin arrows casino in Flagstaff
Yeah, I've looked at their website. It's on my To Do List. Thanks.
Quote: bobbartopWRONG!!! Wrong on all counts. (I say while clicking the nonexistent dislike button)
Allowing AP play makes no sense on any level for casinos. I have no idea why they allow it. If I owned a casino, I’d set every slot, table game and vp to pay 95-99%.
I’d offer no free play and only give hotel and buffet comps.
Quote: FinsRuleAllowing AP play makes no sense on any level for casinos. I have no idea why they allow it. If I owned a casino, I’d set every slot, table game and vp to pay 95-99%.
I’d offer no free play and only give hotel and buffet comps.
I can see why this would be an unpopular opinion at a site like this FR but I agree with you 100% (I say while clicking the nonexistent like button).
It just seems to solve so many problems.
Quote: FinsRuleAllowing AP play makes no sense on any level for casinos. I have no idea why they allow it. If I owned a casino, I’d set every slot, table game and vp to pay 95-99%.
I’d offer no free play and only give hotel and buffet comps.
Good, I hope your casino is right next to mine. Mine will be the one with the full parking lot, no resort fees, $1 shrimp cocktails, fast progressive meters, and the best looking hookers. We welcome teams, and we take food stamps.
The only thing we ban is Mariah Carey music during the holiday season.
Quote: bobbartopGood, I hope your casino is right next to mine. Mine will be the one with the full parking lot, no resort fees, $1 shrimp cocktails, fast progressive meters, and the best looking hookers. We welcome teams, and we take food stamps.
The only thing we ban is Mariah Carey music during the holiday season.
We will have the right amount of open parking spots, and average looking hookers. No food stamps, and Mariah Carey can play once a day.
Quote: GialmereHmm... Good looking Hookers and no Mariah Carey holiday music? I guess I'm back to neutral here.
Don't get me wrong, Mariah has a beautiful voice, very talented. But after the 12th day of Christmas, omg, stuff a sock in it.
Quote: FinsRuleAllowing AP play makes no sense on any level for casinos. I have no idea why they allow it. If I owned a casino, I’d set every slot, table game and vp to pay 95-99%.
I’d offer no free play and only give hotel and buffet comps.
So what would make customers go to your casino instead of the ones that do offer free play and better slots ?
Quote: michael99000So what would make customers go to your casino instead of the ones that do offer free play and better slots ?
The slots are going to pay more than average and the VP will be pretty good, just not good enough for people to AP. The food comps will be good too.
Quote: FinsRuleThe slots are going to pay more than average and the VP will be pretty good, just not good enough for people to AP. The food comps will be good too.
Progressive video poker with fast meters enable both the AP to profit AND the casino.
Look, just get players under your roof, no matter what you gotta do, fill the place up with loss leaders if you have to, just fill the joint up. People will always find a way to lose their asses. Crowds attract more crowds. Give the players a fair shake, they'll lose anyway, but they will enjoy themselves. Don't sweat every nickel. Don't step over dollars to pick up pennies.
Y'know those things at carnivals where you throw a ball at the target and the clown falls into a tub of water? I have a different twist to that theme. Get the corporate bean counters, CEOs of Harrah's, etc, and put them on the little chair over the water tank, and invite players to throw the baseballs at them and dunk them in the water, their nice Armani suits, ties, expensive shoes, everything, right into the drink. On Wednesdays, "Dunk A Corporate Executive Day", plus 5X points. Must be 50 or over.
Quote: michael99000So what would make customers go to your casino instead of the ones that do offer free play and better slots ?
Earning freeplay on a 85% slot still sucks. Its a sucker play.
FinsRule will set slots at 95 to 99%
Who would offer better slots then that?
I was under the impression that slots on the strip are set around 85%. That sucks compared to FinsRule casino
Is there any casino on the planet that sets slots at 99.1% to beat FinsRule? I really doubt it
I'd play at FinsRule casino
Quote: terapinedEarning freeplay on a 85% slot still sucks. Its a sucker play.
FinsRule will set slots at 95 to 99%
Who would offer better slots then that?
I was under the impression that slots on the strip are set around 85%. That sucks compared to FinsRule casino
Is there any casino on the planet that sets slots at 99.1% to beat FinsRule? I really doubt it
I'd play at FinsRule casino
Lose money on every sale, but make it up on volume. Most people would want to own a successful casino, it's nice to see someone willing to run a non profit.
Quote: billryanLose money on every sale, but make it up on volume. Most people would want to own a successful casino, it's nice to see someone willing to run a non profit.
Slots paying back more should be good for profitability. It’ll get more people in the building, staying longer, and spending more money on food/drinks.
Quote: billryanSure. Now you just have to pay operating expenses, licenses and taxes on that thin margin. How did you get this casino? Have a huge loan that needs servicing? Shareholders to satisfy?
My father is going to give me a small loan. I can always declare bankruptcy a few times if I have any issues.
Quote: FinsRuleMy father is going to give me a small loan. I can always declare bankruptcy a few times if I have any issues.
Sounds like a plan.
Oh that's good. I heard you can win on the VP, but now I just won't come because you said I can't.Quote: FinsRuleThe slots are going to pay more than average and the VP will be pretty good, just not good enough for people to AP. The food comps will be good too.
I didn't care for the soundtrack at Palms during my recent visit. Are they working on a different demographic ? I mean c'mon, let's at least play the good ol' classics at 8 and 9 in the morning.Quote: WizardI'll patronize any casino that doesn't play Feliz Nadidad.
Quote: JohnnyQI didn't care for the soundtrack at Palms during my recent visit. Are they working on a different demographic ? I mean c'mon, let's at least play the good ol' classics at 8 and 9 in the morning.
They played some Linkin Park that's a banger
Quote: djatcThey played some Linkin Park that's a banger
2001 4 lyfe bump me some dmx bro
Quote: onenickelmiracleOh that's good. I heard you can win on the VP, but now I just won't come because you said I can't.
??????
If you want to grind on a 99.00% machine , I'm sure Fins will be ok with it
If you get lucky and win, Fins will be cool about it. At 95 to 99%, be lots of winners, create buzz, crowded casino, make lots of money on a thin margin.
Fin's simply does not think he will attract AP's due to 95 to 99% machines
If an AP wants to grind away on a negative machine, I'm sure Fin's will put out a welcome mat :-)
