vpfree2 website down
??? So you don't like sites that help educate players ( consumers ) ? What about WIZARDof ODDS ? Ditto for WIZARDofVEGAS ?Quote: RogerKintWho can I check with to make sure it stays down?
Quote: JohnnyQ??? So you don't like sites that help educate players ( consumers ) ? What about WIZARDof ODDS ? Ditto for WIZARDofVEGAS ?
I agree
VP2FREE is a public service in my opinion
Who wants to go around all day checking pay tables just to find a decent machine to play
Quote: terapinedI agree
VP2FREE is a public service in my opinion
Who wants to go around all day checking pay tables just to find a decent machine to play
I think Roger's comment above is that it is also a public service for casino slot managers.
Quote: RSIt's bad news bears.
I don't understand? I dont play much VP, but when I do the information is always helpful and uaually on point. And, they dont ask for money or anything.
Why do so many people hate that site?
Quote: GandlerI don't understand? I dont play much VP, but when I do the information is always helpful and uaually on point. And, they dont ask for money or anything.
Why do so many people hate that site?
It is a great and useful tool for casual players. The problem is the serious players want the casual players to play worse games. If everybody started playing the best games the casinos would tighten those machines down. Also as someone else mentioned occasionally a machine is mistakenly set and by announcing it publicly the slot director may take notice.
Quote: DRichIt is a great and useful tool for casual players. The problem is the serious players want the casual players to play worse games. If everybody started playing the best games the casinos would tighten those machines down. Also as someone else mentioned occasionally a machine is mistakenly set and by announcing it publicly the slot director may take notice.
Ah well that is kind of messed up, but I guess its not suprising. So basically hoarding knowledge for fear that the casinos will change machines?
I guess that makes sense, I have had MPs get mad at me for sharing very good promos that are available to the public (but hard to find) if they know about them. I do not agree with that mindset, I believe in education proliferation. People who are willing to do the research should be entitled to find the proper information. Its not like its a classified trade secret....
Anything that is available to the public should be freely shared online. Now, if you are talking about exclusive machines in private areas and private promotions that the casino asks you not to share with others, then obviously that is different....
Sure, I agree theoretically. But the average Las Vegas tourist, and there are zillions of them, doesn't know and doesn't care about paytables.Quote: DRichThe problem is the serious players want the casual players to play worse games.
Like you said, Gandler, "People who are willing to do the research should be entitled to find the proper information." Looking up paytables and games on VPFree is NOT that. That's just giving out the information for free with near zero effort taken to find that information. I'd rather there be no public sharing of information so that those who work harder and can find the better games, promotions, glitches, etc. can make the most while the lazy people starve because they expect to get spoon fed information on where to go.
As far as promotions and to a lesser extent machines and paytables -- when information is only known amongst a few people, those few people can make a lot of money. When EVERYONE knows about it, sure, all of those people can get a tiny piece of the pie, but it's gonna get taken out quicker since there's gonna be (potentially) hundreds of people competing and the casino is more likely to take action.
It's just completely backwards when there's something you are able to do yet share the information publicly.
Let's say YOU found a $2 denom, 9/6 JOB machine, that paid double on all four of a kinds (250 credits for $500 instead of 125 credits for $250). That's worth $500/hour, btw. Would you go onto VPFree and report the game so everyone can play it? Would you make a new thread on WOV telling everyone to go play that game? If you would, now you'd have to compete against other APs and of course, if that game is getting pounded 24/7 it's going to be much more likely the game gets taken out.
NO, I wouldn't. However, I don't think this example is what VPFREE2 is about. Extending your logic, WizardofOdds shouldn't have paytables or strategies listed. Are you so good at math that you could figure all this out by yourself ? If so, my hat's off to ya.Quote: RSLet's say YOU found a $2 denom, 9/6 JOB machine, that paid double on all four of a kinds (250 credits for $500 instead of 125 credits for $250). That's worth $500/hour, btw. Would you go onto VPFree and report the game so everyone can play it? Would you make a new thread on WOV telling everyone to go play that game? If you would, now you'd have to compete against other APs and of course, if that game is getting pounded 24/7 it's going to be much more likely the game gets taken out.
YES, I would post that "such and such" a casino has regular 9/6 Jacks or Better located on the 2nd floor.
IF enough consumers know where to play the game they want to play ( best paytable ) and make a decision on where to play based on that, wouldn't that INCREASE competition between casinos ? And like I said before, I think there are so few people interested in learning about good strategy that listing VP games does NOT effect the casinos at all.
Quote: RSIt's not the casual / tourist / ploppy players that are a problem -- most won't check VPFree and for the most part, it's not a problem.
Like you said, Gandler, "People who are willing to do the research should be entitled to find the proper information." Looking up paytables and games on VPFree is NOT that. That's just giving out the information for free with near zero effort taken to find that information. I'd rather there be no public sharing of information so that those who work harder and can find the better games, promotions, glitches, etc. can make the most while the lazy people starve because they expect to get spoon fed information on where to go.
As far as promotions and to a lesser extent machines and paytables -- when information is only known amongst a few people, those few people can make a lot of money. When EVERYONE knows about it, sure, all of those people can get a tiny piece of the pie, but it's gonna get taken out quicker since there's gonna be (potentially) hundreds of people competing and the casino is more likely to take action.
It's just completely backwards when there's something you are able to do yet share the information publicly.
Let's say YOU found a $2 denom, 9/6 JOB machine, that paid double on all four of a kinds (250 credits for $500 instead of 125 credits for $250). That's worth $500/hour, btw. Would you go onto VPFree and report the game so everyone can play it? Would you make a new thread on WOV telling everyone to go play that game? If you would, now you'd have to compete against other APs and of course, if that game is getting pounded 24/7 it's going to be much more likely the game gets taken out.
What he said +100
Quote: RSIt's not the casual / tourist / ploppy players that are a problem -- most won't check VPFree and for the most part, it's not a problem.
Like you said, Gandler, "People who are willing to do the research should be entitled to find the proper information." Looking up paytables and games on VPFree is NOT that. That's just giving out the information for free with near zero effort taken to find that information. I'd rather there be no public sharing of information so that those who work harder and can find the better games, promotions, glitches, etc. can make the most while the lazy people starve because they expect to get spoon fed information on where to go.
As far as promotions and to a lesser extent machines and paytables -- when information is only known amongst a few people, those few people can make a lot of money. When EVERYONE knows about it, sure, all of those people can get a tiny piece of the pie, but it's gonna get taken out quicker since there's gonna be (potentially) hundreds of people competing and the casino is more likely to take action.
It's just completely backwards when there's something you are able to do yet share the information publicly.
Let's say YOU found a $2 denom, 9/6 JOB machine, that paid double on all four of a kinds (250 credits for $500 instead of 125 credits for $250). That's worth $500/hour, btw. Would you go onto VPFree and report the game so everyone can play it? Would you make a new thread on WOV telling everyone to go play that game? If you would, now you'd have to compete against other APs and of course, if that game is getting pounded 24/7 it's going to be much more likely the game gets taken out.
I would not, not on that site because I am not a contributer. But, if I do find an excellent VP machine (which will not happen because I almost never play VP, let alone scout times comparing all of the machines in every nearby casino), but I would post any interesting finds. I see no reason not to. Some casino even advertise when they have VP with a negative house edge because it draws players (and most people play so poorly, that they have a house edge anyway).
I like resources that list off databases of machines and rules, so I view any site like that as a valuable resource.
As for promos, that is a little bit different (since many are only available to certain players anyway), but for public promos, I see no reason to not list them if somebody wanted to. I like databases and information to be available to all.
Quote: JohnnyQNO, I wouldn't. However, I don't think this example is what VPFREE2 is about. Extending your logic, WizardofOdds shouldn't have paytables or strategies listed. Are you so good at math that you could figure all this out by yourself ? If so, my hat's off to ya.
You're right, it probably shouldn't show the paytables and strategies. However, this information can be found in a multitude of different websites, programs, books, or if you're smart enough - doing the math yourself.
Quote: JohnnyQYES, I would post that "such and such" a casino has regular 9/6 Jacks or Better located on the 2nd floor.
IF enough consumers know where to play the game they want to play ( best paytable ) and make a decision on where to play based on that, wouldn't that INCREASE competition between casinos ? And like I said before, I think there are so few people interested in learning about good strategy that listing VP games does NOT effect the casinos at all.
Most players do not care about paytables, house edge, strategy, etc. We're not talking about them, they have very little to do with this conversation. We already know the competition thing doesn't work if the average consumer doesn't care about the product. The average gambler (99%+) don't care about the product (strategy, return, paytables, etc.).
I don't give a s*** if it effects the CASINO. It effects me, because it creates competition where it otherwise wouldn't exist. You remember what happened when someone posted about Magic 21? The max bets got gutted, many places with $5 max bets, a few at $20. The sad part is, I don't think it was an AP who was on the play that posted about it. If it was an AP, then holy ****, they gotta find a new line of work.
Quote: GandlerI would not, not on that site because I am not a contributer. But, if I do find an excellent VP machine (which will not happen because I almost never play VP, let alone scout times comparing all of the machines in every nearby casino), but I would post any interesting finds. I see no reason not to. Some casino even advertise when they have VP with a negative house edge because it draws players (and most people play so poorly, that they have a house edge anyway).
I like resources that list off databases of machines and rules, so I view any site like that as a valuable resource.
As for promos, that is a little bit different (since many are only available to certain players anyway), but for public promos, I see no reason to not list them if somebody wanted to. I like databases and information to be available to all.
Did you not read my post?
The sad part is, most of the time it's not even APs who are exposing plays. The people who are exposing these plays think they're doing something beneficial to the community when in reality it only hurts the community. They think, "If I share this information, everyone gets a piece of the pie!" when in reality, the pie is just taken away, or replaced with cherry pie or something else that's disgusting. Braindead communists.
The VPFree forum is absolutely retarded. You see people on there (from time to time) posting about how good this play is, or that play, or these new machines, etc. etc. I remember when some idiots were posting about some game down town that was giving out extra points, full pay machine, and you got some extra benefits for playing (I don't remember the specifics). A few days later they were all b****ing the point multiplier was reduced, many machines taken out, some of the paytables got chopped, and the ones that remained - their denom got reduced. Granted, that play wasn't great (IMO) and I wasn't playing it....but for some people, that was a great play.
If you feel compelled to share information, do it with someone privately (PM me if you want and we'll make a deal, if you want). A gold mine won't last long if everyone and their mother is playing it.
When you start talking about what's good for the community, there are various sub communities and many times I don't think there's such a thing as "good for the community as a whole." What this is basically turning into is a political topic rather than gambling topic.
You must be bringing up some ancient history here from back in the day when casinos were throwing money at us. Now I see little that isn't already common knowledge on vpfree the forum or database.Quote: RSThe VPFree forum is absolutely retarded. You see people on there (from time to time) posting about how good this play is, or that play, or these new machines, etc. etc. I remember when some idiots were posting about some game down town that was giving out extra points, full pay machine, and you got some extra benefits for playing (I don't remember the specifics). A few days later they were all b****ing the point multiplier was reduced, many machines taken out, some of the paytables got chopped, and the ones that remained - their denom got reduced. Granted, that play wasn't great (IMO) and I wasn't playing it....but for some people, that was a great play.
OK, back to gambling.Quote: mcallister3200What this is basically turning into is a political topic rather than gambling topic.
I would like to know if casino XYZ has 9/6 JoB. I would prefer not to have to check every game by myself, especially because what I saw 6 months ago may not be there on my next trip. And I don't think this info, which I am getting from VPFREE2, is depriving anyone of anything.
