Looking to establish a record for fastest video poker player.
Poll
 | 1 vote (4%) | ||
| | 3 votes (12%) | ||
| | 3 votes (12%) | ||
| | 7 votes (28%) | ||
| | 1 vote (4%) | ||
| | 3 votes (12%) | ||
| | 10 votes (40%) | ||
| | 1 vote (4%) | ||
| | 8 votes (32%) | ||
| | 1 vote (4%) |
25 members have voted
October 9th, 2017 at 12:48:43 PM
permalink
I have done four media interviews about the Vegas shooting and one thing that the interviewers seem incredible is my assertion that some highly skilled video poker players can play 1,000 hands per hour accurately, or more. Personally, my speed would impress nobody but I'm also 52 years old.
What I'm looking is somebody who can at least play close to 1,000 hand per hour (HPH) to establish some kind of record to beat. You can play any form of video poker you like, including two machines. I will just stand back and record the play on my iPhone. Later I will take it home and study every hand for accuracy as well as take a count of hands. Some kind of penalty will apply to any hands played incorrectly, according to the degree of lost EV in the error. I will allow anyone interested to remain anonymous. I am willing to pay something in return for allowing me to post the video on YouTube. Play must be done on a Game King (edited).
Who is up for the challenge?
What I'm looking is somebody who can at least play close to 1,000 hand per hour (HPH) to establish some kind of record to beat. You can play any form of video poker you like, including two machines. I will just stand back and record the play on my iPhone. Later I will take it home and study every hand for accuracy as well as take a count of hands. Some kind of penalty will apply to any hands played incorrectly, according to the degree of lost EV in the error. I will allow anyone interested to remain anonymous. I am willing to pay something in return for allowing me to post the video on YouTube. Play must be done on a Game King (edited).
Who is up for the challenge?
Last edited by: Wizard on Oct 9, 2017
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 9th, 2017 at 12:53:53 PM
permalink
What is the requirement for accuracy of play? Otherwise it would be a contest of who can mash the Draw button the fastest.
Edit: Just saw the bit about the penalty depending on cost of errors, but I would still like to know more details.
Edit: Just saw the bit about the penalty depending on cost of errors, but I would still like to know more details.
October 9th, 2017 at 1:35:45 PM
permalink
Quote: WizardPlay must be done on a Game Maker.
Really? Hopefully you mean a Game King as I don't know anyone that plays Game Maker's anymore.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
October 9th, 2017 at 2:06:31 PM
permalink
Guy I run into at SP and Red Rock can play two machines like he's Rick Wakeman playing a solo instrumental. I'd guess he can do 1200 hands an hour, but have no idea how accurate he is.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
October 9th, 2017 at 2:09:54 PM
permalink
You mean this might finally happen? I've been wondering for years why no did this.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 9th, 2017 at 2:22:32 PM
permalink
Yes, Game King is what I meant.
As far as an accuracy penalty, I'm thinking I would deduct 5.8 hands from the total played for every 1% in lost EV due to errors.
Where do I come up with 5.8, you might ask. 10-7 double bonus is a 100%+ game that can still be found at low levels. The player advantage with perfect play is 0.1725%. So it takes 580 hands to gain one hand of profit. I would look at errors as if playing that game, where it would take 5.8 hands to recoup every 1% of error.
Let me emphasize that the player can play any conventional video poker game.
I know a lot of skilled video poker players but they all say the same thing, "I wish you had asked when x years ago, when I was in my prime." Geography has also been an impediment as I've had some interested and worthy people express interest but they live far from Vegas.
As far as an accuracy penalty, I'm thinking I would deduct 5.8 hands from the total played for every 1% in lost EV due to errors.
Where do I come up with 5.8, you might ask. 10-7 double bonus is a 100%+ game that can still be found at low levels. The player advantage with perfect play is 0.1725%. So it takes 580 hands to gain one hand of profit. I would look at errors as if playing that game, where it would take 5.8 hands to recoup every 1% of error.
Let me emphasize that the player can play any conventional video poker game.
Quote: rxwineYou mean this might finally happen? I've been wondering for years why no did this.
I know a lot of skilled video poker players but they all say the same thing, "I wish you had asked when x years ago, when I was in my prime." Geography has also been an impediment as I've had some interested and worthy people express interest but they live far from Vegas.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 9th, 2017 at 2:35:06 PM
permalink
Hmm, so is that to say if you make a mistake that costs less than 1% on a hand it doesn't bother? OR are you saying for every 1% of total mistakes made you'll deduct 5.8 hands? I know fairly advanced strategy, but I guarantee Bob Dancer or other VP pros would roll there eyes here and there. I also presume this is on a single line machine. I feel as though I can accurately play 1,000 hands per hour. On some of the machine plays we've done we've ever intentionally not played as fast as possible for reasons, or we had a really nice edge and we decided to get extra hands rather than worry about a few of the finer detailed plays. Thus, I've 'tried' to play as perfect as I can while playing fast but I've never stopped to look hands up in those situations. If you just want a guinea pig that can play 1,000 hands per hour I'll throw my hat in the ring. Though, I'd imagine you could always give Bob a call and ask for 1 small hour of his time to set the fastest known record! =D
p.s. didn't get a chance to hear your interview on KFI... is there a link/thread?!?! I'm heading out so forgive me for not scanning through the threads right now!
p.s. didn't get a chance to hear your interview on KFI... is there a link/thread?!?! I'm heading out so forgive me for not scanning through the threads right now!
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
October 9th, 2017 at 3:04:17 PM
permalink
Do you have to play for a full hour? What if you played 170 hands in 10 minutes? What if you hit a jackpot? Is a bonus applied as compensation while waiting for an attendant?
With the advent of 100 play machines, is single play speed as important nowadays?
With the advent of 100 play machines, is single play speed as important nowadays?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
October 9th, 2017 at 3:50:15 PM
permalink
NVM 100 play. Super fast speed and Flash credits go faster than one can play.Quote: AyecarumbaDo you have to play for a full hour? What if you played 170 hands in 10 minutes? What if you hit a jackpot? Is a bonus applied as compensation while waiting for an attendant?
With the advent of 100 play machines, is single play speed as important nowadays?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
October 9th, 2017 at 4:11:52 PM
permalink
Quote: RomesHmm, so is that to say if you make a mistake that costs less than 1% on a hand it doesn't bother? OR are you saying for every 1% of total mistakes made you'll deduct 5.8 hands? I know fairly advanced strategy, but I guarantee Bob Dancer or other VP pros would roll there eyes here and there. I also presume this is on a single line machine. I feel as though I can accurately play 1,000 hands per hour. On some of the machine plays we've done we've ever intentionally not played as fast as possible for reasons, or we had a really nice edge and we decided to get extra hands rather than worry about a few of the finer detailed plays. Thus, I've 'tried' to play as perfect as I can while playing fast but I've never stopped to look hands up in those situations. If you just want a guinea pig that can play 1,000 hands per hour I'll throw my hat in the ring. Though, I'd imagine you could always give Bob a call and ask for 1 small hour of his time to set the fastest known record! =D
I'm going to put you down as an interested party. Let's continue this by text or PM.
To answer someone else's question, no, you don't have to play for a full hour. I'm thinking about five minutes would be good.
As for the error penalty, let me give you an example:
Hands played: 85
Time played: 5 minutes
Only error: 4h, 7s, 9s, Js, Ah on deal. Player holds Js, Ah.
EV of holding Js Ah = 0.478261
EV of holding 7s, 9s, Js = 0.540241
Cost of error = 0.061980.
As a reminder, I deduct 5.8 hands for every 1% of error. So the deduction here is 5.8*6.1980 = 35.9484 hands.
Thus total hands is reduced to 85-35.9484 = 49.0516. That equates to playing at a rate of only 589 per hour. Without the error it would have been 1,020.
Quote:p.s. didn't get a chance to hear your interview on KFI... is there a link/thread?!?! I'm heading out so forgive me for not scanning through the threads right now!
I doubt there is any record of it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 9th, 2017 at 4:14:42 PM
permalink
October 9th, 2017 at 4:16:08 PM
permalink
If I recall correctly, WinPoker or one of those computer games kept stats like this. BUT I assume this should be done on a real VP machine. Checking 1000 hands for accuracy just seems like a lot of work. Will a casino allow you to record it ?
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
October 9th, 2017 at 4:23:08 PM
permalink
Quote: rsactuaryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-df06b3eVBc
I'd ask this guy.....
That's the guy billryan is referring to.
October 9th, 2017 at 4:23:47 PM
permalink
Quote: Romes...p.s. didn't get a chance to hear your interview on KFI... is there a link/thread?!?! ...
Here you go: https://kfiam640.iheart.com/featured/john-and-ken/content/2017-10-06-vegas-shooters-gambling-draws-new-attention-to-video-poker/
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
October 9th, 2017 at 4:31:18 PM
permalink
I could easily do this but it is gonna look funny if you are visibly recording it inside the Casino. One place I know has lightning fast JoB at the bar top and I can get 1200 or so per hour give or take. However I wouldn't want to be recorded at the place playing. I'm not sure I'd want to be recorded playing a full hour anywhere.
Perhaps if I was wearing a button camera while playing or some other hidden device but that's pushing it a bit as well but on graveyard for an hour probably is very low risk of getting caught.
Honestly though, who cares what anyone believes. All serious VP players know what can and can't be done and I've witnessed and played at 1200 hands per hour mistake free on single line machines.
Perhaps if I was wearing a button camera while playing or some other hidden device but that's pushing it a bit as well but on graveyard for an hour probably is very low risk of getting caught.
Honestly though, who cares what anyone believes. All serious VP players know what can and can't be done and I've witnessed and played at 1200 hands per hour mistake free on single line machines.
October 9th, 2017 at 4:36:40 PM
permalink
Quote: rsactuaryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-df06b3eVBc
I'd ask this guy.....
I have my doubts. First of all because it can be faked,
You record Lady Gaga playing in a casino on the overhead sound.
Record and the Speed up the video of a guy playing two machines but only record clicking sound. You don't even need real machine for clicking.
Put the sound and the speeded up video together. You also notice the talking guy cannot be seen, nor can we see anyone's mouth moving so you don't have to snyc figures in the video.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 9th, 2017 at 4:47:57 PM
permalink
Quote: monet0412However I wouldn't want to be recorded at the place playing.
I'm more interested in how you play that fast and think no one has been noticing.
I notice anyone playing fast nearby.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 9th, 2017 at 4:51:00 PM
permalink
I might be wrong but that looks like the same kid at the Palms. He used to play two machines at the deuces wild progressive about a year or so before they took it out completely. We used to kinda laugh at him because he was drawing too much attention to the game and himself. I've played two machines like him but it's just not necessary. I find it better to just play multi line or higher denomination. Since I've seen this type of play or player myself and have done this type of play myself I know it can be done but it does catch up on you as you get older with soreness and cramps.
October 9th, 2017 at 4:56:36 PM
permalink
I'm not sure I can even hit the wrong plays at that blistering pace.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 9th, 2017 at 4:57:53 PM
permalink
Quote: rxwineI'm more interested in how you play that fast and think no one has been noticing.
I notice anyone playing fast nearby.
Oh they notice... I've just run good in my life with no trouble. The last two years I've played a different strategy. The way I play now is large amount of coin in at higher denomination or multiline games. Some places I put in around 100k per month and others I have gone insane with 500 to 750k coin in on my card. Sometimes I think they are gonna throw me out just for sheer coin in. I only had trouble at the El Cortez. Im stuck in a catch 22 right now. If I want to keep up my large amount of FP per month I have to put in the play but risk problems. One place I'm showing up over 100k in win loss but it seems they aren't sweating the action. I have thought about taking some time off and letting everything fall off but since I see no signs of heat I just keep rolling. Your point is valid though.
I've had hosts sit beside me in kinda amazement of how fast I'm going through the hands. I usually say something about how Atari and Nintendo gave me this ability and leave soon after. I try not to play on day shift!! I do believe my reel play helps as well.
October 9th, 2017 at 5:11:18 PM
permalink
Quote: rsactuaryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-df06b3eVBc
I'd ask this guy.....
Quite a video. The perfect song playing the background. Love how he gives the guy making the video the finger. Anyway, with the camera moving around it is hard to get an accurate speed, and I didn't consider the issue of errors at all, but I counted 18 hands in 20 seconds (between 0:37 and 0:57). That is a mind-boggling 3,240 hands per hour. Anyone know who the player is?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 9th, 2017 at 5:17:32 PM
permalink
Quote: rxwineI have my doubts. First of all because it can be faked,
I love a skeptic. Also consider how fast the bet column moves across the screen. I never really thought about it before but it seems to me it doesn't roll across that fast, even in the fastest mode. I'm going to investigate this in greater depth.
Also, while Poker Face could have been playing in the background, it raises a red flag with me as being a little too perfect.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 9th, 2017 at 5:17:51 PM
permalink
Quote: rxwineI have my doubts. First of all because it can be faked,
I love a skeptic. Also consider how fast the bet column moves across the screen. I never really thought about it before but it seems to me it doesn't roll across that fast, even in the fastest mode. I'm going to investigate this in greater depth.
Also, while Poker Face could have been playing in the background, it raises a red flag with me as being a little too perfect.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 9th, 2017 at 9:01:10 PM
permalink
After watching again it does look like the video is sped up in some sort of way. I noticed when the people are walking down the hall at the end of the video they look like they are walking too fast. There was this guy/kid though a few years ago at the Palms who used to play like that, banging the deal draw as fast as he could like this video. He didn't play really long sessions though I noticed on the deuces wild progressive when they moved it around a few times and eventually right out the door along with the dollar double bonus progressive and the 2 dollar flat DB.
October 9th, 2017 at 9:06:52 PM
permalink
Tricky. I would expect different speeds for
(1) Basic strategy
(2) Intermediate with some penalty cards
(3) Optimal
(4) Jacks 9/6 versus more complicated game
(5) Length of session - 30 min vs. 24 hrs
And it so much depends on the quality of the slot machine.
I only play VP a little. I can do 1,100 hands/hr for about an hour (basic-intermediate strategy), but my error rate is higher than at 800 hph.
And I stop to consult strategy cards on some hands.
(1) Basic strategy
(2) Intermediate with some penalty cards
(3) Optimal
(4) Jacks 9/6 versus more complicated game
(5) Length of session - 30 min vs. 24 hrs
And it so much depends on the quality of the slot machine.
I only play VP a little. I can do 1,100 hands/hr for about an hour (basic-intermediate strategy), but my error rate is higher than at 800 hph.
And I stop to consult strategy cards on some hands.
October 9th, 2017 at 10:51:28 PM
permalink
The optimal strategy for most games is pretty messed up. AFAIK, JOB is 1000% easier to play completely optimally. Look at the deviations from basic to optimal on games like deuces wild, DDB, or DB. It'd be a feat in it of itself to play one of these games with optimal strategy, let alone at a high speed.
October 9th, 2017 at 11:11:49 PM
permalink
Quote: WizardAs for the error penalty, let me give you an example:
Hands played: 85
Time played: 5 minutes
Only error: 4h, 7s, 9s, Js, Ah on deal. Player holds Js, Ah.
EV of holding Js Ah = 0.478261
EV of holding 7s, 9s, Js = 0.540241
Cost of error = 0.061980.
wait.. what?!
I would have never thought of holding79s over AJo.
what game is this?
edit:
nevermind.. after a re-read, saw you're holding 79Js. then yeah.
dont know why I missed the J for '3 to the SF'? <embarrassed>
Last edited by: 100xOdds on Oct 10, 2017
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
October 10th, 2017 at 1:54:02 AM
permalink
$12K-25K FP/month gets addictive... :-)Quote: monet0412The last two years I've played a different strategy. The way I play now is large amount of coin in at higher denomination or multiline games. Some places I put in around 100k per month and others I have gone insane with 500 to 750k coin in on my card. Sometimes I think they are gonna throw me out just for sheer coin in. I only had trouble at the El Cortez. I'm stuck in a catch 22 right now. If I want to keep up my large amount of FP per month I have to put in the play but risk problems. One place I'm showing up over 100k in win loss but it seems they aren't sweating the action. I have thought about taking some time off and letting everything fall off but since I see no signs of heat I just keep rolling.
-----
Luckily you're not in Southern California.
People getting 86'ed for $20K royals. Very dicey to play high-level VP....unless you're losing big. In which case, they don't seem to mind. :-)
Im my experience, places seem to watch you & let you lose, but when you are making a little comeback is when the ax falls.
If I were running a casino, that's what I would probably do.
-----
Northern California seems to have no problem with VP players.
One casino told me a VP player was up +$250K on the casino, and they were still OK with it.
Four VP players always came in during Tue/Wed/Thu multi-pt specials and filled up one bank. Played $100-200/hand (10x$1-2) for a few hrs, and left when the promotion ended. Casino knew they had a slight edge, but were willing to lose a little to the pros if they could persuade 50-100 other people to play more on weekdays.
----
Not sure about Central California.
October 10th, 2017 at 2:03:13 AM
permalink
The biggest conspiracy theorist on the forum doesn't see a problem with this Video? Looks odd to me.Quote: MaxPenThat's the guy billryan is referring to.
I suggest someone take a look the speed of the animation on the card readers and the bill validator next to it. Then look at how fast the couple is walking. Look how fast the people are walking across the casino floor in the background.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
October 10th, 2017 at 4:23:05 AM
permalink
Quote: mamat$12K-25K FP/month gets addictive... :-)
I don't think I've read a more true statement on this forum. I have to admit I dismissed you months ago with your stories about credit hustlers... later the pickpocket story made me sour. However the more I read your posts the more I learn and realize your already around the corner while I'm coming up the mountain. I take my hat off to you. I do admit when I started getting 4K in one mailer per month I got hooked and sucked in pretty good to play a different style. I'm basically playing a triangle right now... 3 Casinos is all it seems is needed. I'm probably missing out on some other good stuff but like your comment says... it's addictive.
October 10th, 2017 at 6:05:54 AM
permalink
Mike, I think this a great idea! I think WOV should 'own' this championship. To compare this to the crossword puzzle championship that David participates in, the penalty for an error must be severe. If the winner will be around 1500 hands per hour, then the error penalty should be a minimum of 50 hands. I think you are overthinking it when you grade errors differently according to lost EV. I'd pick a number of hands as a penalty and leave it as a defined number. Either you played the hand correctly or you didn't. 50 feels about right.
October 10th, 2017 at 7:43:40 AM
permalink
Wizard,
The first thing I want to suggest is that I believe that it should have to take place over a full hour. When it comes to AP, Video Poker is a marathon, not a race. (unless playing a +EV linked Progressive) That is to say that five minutes of playing doesn't mean someone can sustain that sort of speed for an hour in a casino environment.
There are a number of factors that realistically should and do come into play. A cocktail waitress might ask if you want anything, your hand could cramp, you might just need to take a second and crack your knuckles...Any number of things.
If someone really wants to claim a certain number of hands per hour, then that should be consistently and taken over a, "Session," or for all time played over a gambling day. Of course, such a trial would not be pragmatic because it would take an entire day. That said, one hour is at least somewhat reasonable.
I have seen people play who are amazing, their hands look like they are typing something with an extremely high WPM, or playing the piano, or something along those lines. It's a thing of beauty. Of course, most such people do not play optimally (I have caught mistakes) but they know what they want to hold and hold what they want to hold and play reasonably well.
I can say that I can play 98.91% DW almost perfectly at a consistent 800 hands/hour. I've never really played for speed, but my main one I play is not a Progressive game, so I have no great concern for speed. I don't even play on the highest speed setting, and also, it's not a Game King, but I think the speed is about the same.
I probably play 900-1000 (organically) over the first hour and then just naturally end up slowing down, that's why I said an all day affair would be the only true determinant.
But, five minutes doesn't prove anything. 800/hour is 13.33 hands per minute, so 66.67 over five minutes. I could get an unusual amount of hands that I would instantly recognize as, "No Holds," which would speed me up, or I could catch a bunch of inside straight draws which would slow me way down. Five minutes doesn't prove anything.
The first thing I want to suggest is that I believe that it should have to take place over a full hour. When it comes to AP, Video Poker is a marathon, not a race. (unless playing a +EV linked Progressive) That is to say that five minutes of playing doesn't mean someone can sustain that sort of speed for an hour in a casino environment.
There are a number of factors that realistically should and do come into play. A cocktail waitress might ask if you want anything, your hand could cramp, you might just need to take a second and crack your knuckles...Any number of things.
If someone really wants to claim a certain number of hands per hour, then that should be consistently and taken over a, "Session," or for all time played over a gambling day. Of course, such a trial would not be pragmatic because it would take an entire day. That said, one hour is at least somewhat reasonable.
I have seen people play who are amazing, their hands look like they are typing something with an extremely high WPM, or playing the piano, or something along those lines. It's a thing of beauty. Of course, most such people do not play optimally (I have caught mistakes) but they know what they want to hold and hold what they want to hold and play reasonably well.
I can say that I can play 98.91% DW almost perfectly at a consistent 800 hands/hour. I've never really played for speed, but my main one I play is not a Progressive game, so I have no great concern for speed. I don't even play on the highest speed setting, and also, it's not a Game King, but I think the speed is about the same.
I probably play 900-1000 (organically) over the first hour and then just naturally end up slowing down, that's why I said an all day affair would be the only true determinant.
But, five minutes doesn't prove anything. 800/hour is 13.33 hands per minute, so 66.67 over five minutes. I could get an unusual amount of hands that I would instantly recognize as, "No Holds," which would speed me up, or I could catch a bunch of inside straight draws which would slow me way down. Five minutes doesn't prove anything.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 10th, 2017 at 9:04:35 AM
permalink
Quote: AxelWolfThe biggest conspiracy theorist on the forum doesn't see a problem with this Video? Looks odd to me.
I suggest someone take a look the speed of the animation on the card readers and the bill validator next to it. Then look at how fast the couple is walking. Look how fast the people are walking across the casino floor in the background.
I'm not at all sure that's the guy I'm talking about. The person I see is about six foot,thin with a slight beard. He can be found at SP on double points days and I've seen him at Red Rock on Wednesday's. As that is the only day I am ever at Red Rock, it's possible he is there more.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
October 10th, 2017 at 10:53:48 AM
permalink
Quote: Mission146That is to say that five minutes of playing doesn't mean someone can sustain that sort of speed for an hour in a casino environment.
Those are good points. However, I plan to put the whole thing on YouTube and there are limits to the length of a video. I will also have to analyze the play in slow motion and verify each play is correct. Another factor is videography in casinos is usually against the rules. I think it would look fishy to stand there recording for an hour. I'm sure somebody will suggest putting the camera in my front pocket but I've had trouble getting the aim correct doing that with other projects. My shirt pockets tend to be baggy and the camera aims down too much.
Still, maybe 5 minutes is still too short. Perhaps 10 to 15 would be a happy medium.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 10th, 2017 at 10:56:47 AM
permalink
Quote: billryan...and I've seen him at Red Rock on Wednesday's.
What is the best time to catch this guy on Wednesdays? Is he always at the bank at the parking garage elevators (close to the keno section)?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 10th, 2017 at 10:58:26 AM
permalink
Quote: SOOPOOI think you are overthinking it when you grade errors differently according to lost EV. I'd pick a number of hands as a penalty and leave it as a defined number. Either you played the hand correctly or you didn't. 50 feels about right.
I think it is realistic to deduct according to the severity of the error. Some errors are so minor and happen so often it can be almost excused if one doesn't play it perfectly. For example Kd 10d 2s 9s 5d in 9-6 Jacks.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 10th, 2017 at 11:04:04 AM
permalink
Quote: WizardThose are good points. However, I plan to put the whole thing on YouTube and there are limits to the length of a video. I will also have to analyze the play in slow motion and verify each play is correct. Another factor is videography in casinos is usually against the rules. I think it would look fishy to stand there recording for an hour. I'm sure somebody will suggest putting the camera in my front pocket but I've had trouble getting the aim correct doing that with other projects. My shirt pockets tend to be baggy and the camera aims down too much.
Still, maybe 5 minutes is still too short. Perhaps 10 to 15 would be a happy medium.
Wizard,
YouTube no longer has a ten minute limit, if that is what you are referring to. In fact, I'm not sure that there are any limits at all, but if there are, they are MUCH longer than ten minutes.
I would help you analyze the plays if you wanted to send me the Video. I would say 80% of VP plays are either obviously right or obviously wrong, so most plays could be confirmed as correct in real time.
I agree with your point about videography, maybe prior permission, or a Dotty's? Is there anywhere that you know of where there is a decommissioned machine that functions well? I think a sustained hour is an even more important factor than the casino environment.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 10th, 2017 at 11:29:11 AM
permalink
I self park and go in the entrance by The Yard House. My usual path is to walk through to the movies and afterward walk over by the buffet area. I have a meeting twice a month in the Financial building next to Red Rock that generally gets out about 130 and then I often go to RR to a movie., so I'd say between 130-230. He's there more often than not, I usually stop to admire him for a minute of two.
At South Point, he's on the machines by the bar, west of the showroom.
At South Point, he's on the machines by the bar, west of the showroom.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
October 10th, 2017 at 11:52:21 AM
permalink
1500 hands per hour on single line??? I would like to bet the under... even on turbo that would be impressive.
I think it's pretty simple to print up a strategy and that strategy is agreed upon to use for the specific game/session.
If I did it I'd want to go to somewhere like buffalo bills or somewhere I never play regularly. Certain machines will change the results because of the difference between slant top or uprights and how responsive the buttons are. Some machines are just set faster... the bar at skyline is one example on the newer game kings but you may have to find one where the buttons aren't jammed with dried beer/alcohol.
Also some places on graveyard you never have to worry about being bothered by cocktail girls or slots... club fortune is one of those places.
I think it's pretty simple to print up a strategy and that strategy is agreed upon to use for the specific game/session.
If I did it I'd want to go to somewhere like buffalo bills or somewhere I never play regularly. Certain machines will change the results because of the difference between slant top or uprights and how responsive the buttons are. Some machines are just set faster... the bar at skyline is one example on the newer game kings but you may have to find one where the buttons aren't jammed with dried beer/alcohol.
Also some places on graveyard you never have to worry about being bothered by cocktail girls or slots... club fortune is one of those places.
October 10th, 2017 at 12:18:21 PM
permalink
You could probably devise a relatively good solo test, for individuals who want to submit an anonymous video.
But it takes some planning to make it really hard to cheat.
For instance the amount of cash has to be showing at all times as the machine plays.
Showing us a TITO with all the codes, time and dates when it is put in the machine would give the base information of when play started, and upon stopping play, they would show us the resulting TITO.
Video has to be unbroken, hands should never leave the view of the screen and we should see ticket in and ticket out process uninterrupted.
This probably is not fool proof, but consider even if you played two machines to try to fool us, the machine codes won't match even if the starting and ending times match, and the resulting amount of money left won't be the same. Even if you waited until the next day at the same time, it will be really hard to end with the same amount of money.
So, it's a pretty good method, I think. I'd really stress everything has to be followed strictly, particular never removing hands from the video image.
But it takes some planning to make it really hard to cheat.
For instance the amount of cash has to be showing at all times as the machine plays.
Showing us a TITO with all the codes, time and dates when it is put in the machine would give the base information of when play started, and upon stopping play, they would show us the resulting TITO.
Video has to be unbroken, hands should never leave the view of the screen and we should see ticket in and ticket out process uninterrupted.
This probably is not fool proof, but consider even if you played two machines to try to fool us, the machine codes won't match even if the starting and ending times match, and the resulting amount of money left won't be the same. Even if you waited until the next day at the same time, it will be really hard to end with the same amount of money.
So, it's a pretty good method, I think. I'd really stress everything has to be followed strictly, particular never removing hands from the video image.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 10th, 2017 at 3:02:26 PM
permalink
I know it's not the "perfect" test, but would be interesting nonetheless, assuming it's feasible and not too much work.
Could you make a game on WOO, similar to the one you already have? Include a timer and a "submit" type function, where people can play it on their computer and submit their results. All the heavy lifting would be done already, since the program should be able to analyze correct/wrong holds, % lost, # of hands, etc.
Of course the problem would be first, making the game/app on the website. Not sure how difficult or time consuming that'd be. Secondly, it's not entirely indicative of in-casino speed. Nonetheless, if it's something you can cook up, I think it'd be pretty interesting and kinda cool.
Could you make a game on WOO, similar to the one you already have? Include a timer and a "submit" type function, where people can play it on their computer and submit their results. All the heavy lifting would be done already, since the program should be able to analyze correct/wrong holds, % lost, # of hands, etc.
Of course the problem would be first, making the game/app on the website. Not sure how difficult or time consuming that'd be. Secondly, it's not entirely indicative of in-casino speed. Nonetheless, if it's something you can cook up, I think it'd be pretty interesting and kinda cool.
October 10th, 2017 at 3:21:42 PM
permalink
Quote: WizardThose are good points. However, I plan to put the whole thing on YouTube and there are limits to the length of a video. I will also have to analyze the play in slow motion and verify each play is correct. Another factor is videography in casinos is usually against the rules. I think it would look fishy to stand there recording for an hour. I'm sure somebody will suggest putting the camera in my front pocket but I've had trouble getting the aim correct doing that with other projects. My shirt pockets tend to be baggy and the camera aims down too much.
Still, maybe 5 minutes is still too short. Perhaps 10 to 15 would be a happy medium.
Thinking out loud...
You have the stature in Vegas to get permission to film a person, or several sequentially, for this purpose. The casinos are under heavy scrutiny, and negative publicity has been abundant. If the casino goes uncredited (unless they want credit), the players are anonymous, and you're doing this to demonstrate how basic and harmless video poker is, I can't believe someone won't allow documentation of how good their games are, how well-maintained their machines are, etc.
What would it hurt to ask a few, and do a video with proper production values? Steady, well-focused frames, a clock in the shot, explanation before and after with paytables displayed, etc. I would think Bob Dancer and/or Anthony Curtis would help promote it.
I'm recalling you demoing paytables on film for the BBC that day (don't know if the casino was named), and a series if AC videos shot in casinos. When it's in their interest, I think casinos will help with this.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
October 10th, 2017 at 3:41:29 PM
permalink
Those guys emphasize accuracy, not speed. I'd think anything glorifying speed would not be in their interest zone. Could be mistaken though. I'm a "measure twice, cut once sort," myself when it comes to VP.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
October 10th, 2017 at 3:52:19 PM
permalink
To catch up, nobody will respect it if I make my own video poker machine. I could probably buy the buttons and play through the app on WoO but it would be a major effort and I still think the many skeptics on the forum would still say it ain't the same as a real game.
One thing I've learned in my 52 revolutions around the sun is people are much more prone to saying "no" than "yes." This is especially true in corporate culture where you are quick to get blamed when things go wrong but get little credit for taking chances that turned out well. It is truly easier to ask forgiveness than ask permission. However, if you are a major media crew, then some casinos will make exceptions. Meanwhile, I can't even get a free press pass to G2E, despite people with much smaller sites being approved. Dottie's is a good idea though. Fast modern machines and I don't think they would throw a fit at this experiment.
I'm thinking of paying the Red Rock a visit tomorrow to look for the guy in the video. Anybody up for lunch there?
One thing I've learned in my 52 revolutions around the sun is people are much more prone to saying "no" than "yes." This is especially true in corporate culture where you are quick to get blamed when things go wrong but get little credit for taking chances that turned out well. It is truly easier to ask forgiveness than ask permission. However, if you are a major media crew, then some casinos will make exceptions. Meanwhile, I can't even get a free press pass to G2E, despite people with much smaller sites being approved. Dottie's is a good idea though. Fast modern machines and I don't think they would throw a fit at this experiment.
I'm thinking of paying the Red Rock a visit tomorrow to look for the guy in the video. Anybody up for lunch there?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 10th, 2017 at 3:59:57 PM
permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs
I'm recalling you demoing paytables on film for the BBC that day (don't know if the casino was named), and a series if AC videos shot in casinos. When it's in their interest, I think casinos will help with this.
Did that air? Is that from when I was out there? I've always wondered if I made the final cut.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 10th, 2017 at 4:07:29 PM
permalink
Wizard,
Actually, along those lines, maybe even an independent bar-type place that has a few machines. Not only would that be closer (noise) to a casino atmosphere than a Dottie's, but I'm sure an independent would LOVE any free publicity they could get. A, "Thank you to (establishment)," in the video, something like that.
Actually, along those lines, maybe even an independent bar-type place that has a few machines. Not only would that be closer (noise) to a casino atmosphere than a Dottie's, but I'm sure an independent would LOVE any free publicity they could get. A, "Thank you to (establishment)," in the video, something like that.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 10th, 2017 at 5:28:52 PM
permalink
Quote: Mission146Actually, along those lines, maybe even an independent bar-type place that has a few machines. Not only would that be closer (noise) to a casino atmosphere than a Dottie's, but I'm sure an independent would LOVE any free publicity they could get. A, "Thank you to (establishment)," in the video, something like that.
I am a terrible salesman. Whenever I ask for anything people immediately and instinctively respond with "no." I've leaned it is better to wait to be asked than to ask yourself.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 10th, 2017 at 5:42:25 PM
permalink
Quote: WizardI am a terrible salesman. Whenever I ask for anything people immediately and instinctively respond with "no." I've leaned it is better to wait to be asked than to ask yourself.
I'm a reasonably good salesman, if you would like to PM me some locations when you have a general idea of when this might be done, then I could make a few calls for you.
Change, "We want to test the speed of a video poker player," to, "We want to FEATURE your establishment in a gambling and food video," would be my first tip!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 10th, 2017 at 5:53:09 PM
permalink
FULL PITCH:
ME: Hello, this is Brandon James with WizardofOdds and WizardofVegas.com, a popular Internet gambling and travel guide, how are you today?
(Response)
ME: Fantastic, I'm glad to hear you're doing well.
ME: I'm calling today because we want to make a video that puts the spotlight on locals-type establishments in the Las Vegas area. We feel like visitors to Las Vegas, to really enjoy the full experience of the city, should take the opportunity to spend at least one day in local establishments to talk to the locals and enjoy an atmosphere that is more reminiscent of what they may be used to at home. With that said, do you think that you might be interested in having your establishment FEATURED in a gambling and food video in which we highlight the dining/drinking options available as well as some of your gambling options? In exchange for the courtesy of being able to film, we will feature your establishment heavily on our sites and in the YouTube video both inside and outside.
ME (If yes): Excellent, then all we would need to do is come up with a good date and time for us to do this. Ideally, we would pick a time when your establishment won't be TOO busy, because while there will only be one cameraman, there will perhaps be as many as three or four individuals eating, drinking and gambling. We would hate to take up too much important real estate during a busy time, so do you have any suggestions for when a good time of day would be?
ME (If no): I'm sorry to hear that you wouldn't be interested in this opportunity to be featured prominently on a well-known and visited gambling and travel website that has had web views numbering in the MILLIONS. We would want nothing in exchange except for the permission to film at your facilities, so this would also be business for you. We would not ask for any food discounts or other niceties, just permission to film there and to feature your establishment as one of the hotspots for Vegas locals. Are you sure you wouldn't like to be featured with us?
ME (if no on rebuttal): Thank you for your time, then, I'm sorry we couldn't work anything out. If you would like to perhaps be featured in a future video, please call me at (number) and we'll see if we have anything coming up. Have a great day and thanks for taking the time to speak to me.
ME: Hello, this is Brandon James with WizardofOdds and WizardofVegas.com, a popular Internet gambling and travel guide, how are you today?
(Response)
ME: Fantastic, I'm glad to hear you're doing well.
ME: I'm calling today because we want to make a video that puts the spotlight on locals-type establishments in the Las Vegas area. We feel like visitors to Las Vegas, to really enjoy the full experience of the city, should take the opportunity to spend at least one day in local establishments to talk to the locals and enjoy an atmosphere that is more reminiscent of what they may be used to at home. With that said, do you think that you might be interested in having your establishment FEATURED in a gambling and food video in which we highlight the dining/drinking options available as well as some of your gambling options? In exchange for the courtesy of being able to film, we will feature your establishment heavily on our sites and in the YouTube video both inside and outside.
ME (If yes): Excellent, then all we would need to do is come up with a good date and time for us to do this. Ideally, we would pick a time when your establishment won't be TOO busy, because while there will only be one cameraman, there will perhaps be as many as three or four individuals eating, drinking and gambling. We would hate to take up too much important real estate during a busy time, so do you have any suggestions for when a good time of day would be?
ME (If no): I'm sorry to hear that you wouldn't be interested in this opportunity to be featured prominently on a well-known and visited gambling and travel website that has had web views numbering in the MILLIONS. We would want nothing in exchange except for the permission to film at your facilities, so this would also be business for you. We would not ask for any food discounts or other niceties, just permission to film there and to feature your establishment as one of the hotspots for Vegas locals. Are you sure you wouldn't like to be featured with us?
ME (if no on rebuttal): Thank you for your time, then, I'm sorry we couldn't work anything out. If you would like to perhaps be featured in a future video, please call me at (number) and we'll see if we have anything coming up. Have a great day and thanks for taking the time to speak to me.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 10th, 2017 at 5:59:56 PM
permalink
There are guys posting videos of slot play on YouTube live that run for two plus hours. They claim to have permission from the casinos and I can't imagine they don't as one guy has a tripod set up between him and the machine. I don't think it would be to hard to get approval. I know one place they where videoing from was red rock. Of course they are putting massive amounts of money in and losing great amounts. I'm sure the casinos always make some exceptions for people who put big dollars through their machines.
