Deal Draw
The gimmick is, you play 2 credits per hand as a base (a full bet is 10 credits per hand). You get paid twice, once on the deal and once on the draw. Each of your hands gets cards dealt but only the bottom hand gets holds, the final result of the bottom hand after draw is copied to the other hands like normal.
The deal pay tables for JoB-style games typically start at 1 for pair of 5s-10s
Quote: ThatDonGuyFrom how it is described here and on the IGT website, it appears to be a multi-hand version of Double Pay Poker.
Yeah, but deal draw has some other variants that Double Pay doesn't. Like Bonus, Bonus Deluxe, and JoB.
Strategy is unaffected, darth, just follow drawing strategy based on the draw paytable.
Quote: tringlomane
Yeah, but deal draw has some other variants that Double Pay doesn't. Like Bonus, Bonus Deluxe, and Job.
Does anyone know what the Deal payouts are on the JoB or Bonus Deluxe games?? Neither the Wiz nor VideoPoker.com have any tables for these. Haven't located any in the wild yet either.
Quote: ThatDonGuyFrom how it is described here and on the IGT website, it appears to be a multi-hand version of Double Pay Poker.
wtf? ~97% payout?!?!
Who in the world would play a gimmick that doesn't add to the return?
ie: super times pay adds +.25% to the underlying game, Ultimate X adds +.50% (general rule)
can you not pay the extra coins and just play the underlying game like you can in other gimmick games?
ie: Deal/draw '9/7 Triple Double bonus'
9/7 Triple Double bonus is 99.58% return but the deal/draw gimmick lowers the overall return to ~99.2%.
can you just play normal 5 coin-in instead of 10 and not activate the Deal/draw gimmick?
Quote: 100xOddsWho in the world would play a gimmick that doesn't add to the return?
I believe, by law, the gimmick must return at least as much as the base pay table. So if you're seeing a 97% payout, that's because of the poor base, not the gimmick.
Is that true in all states?Quote: rsactuaryI believe, by law, the gimmick must return at least as much as the base pay table. So if you're seeing a 97% payout, that's because of the poor base, not the gimmick.
Quote: rsactuaryI can only speak for Nevada. But I would find it difficult to believe that an IGT or similar company would create a different game for another state just because they could (excluding the Class II type machines - but they don't seem to have these types of gimmicks). However, I could be wrong on that, I haven't researched it.
in my post, I gave an example of how the gimmick actually lowers the return:
Deal/draw '9/7 Triple Double bonus'
9/7 Triple Double bonus is 99.58% return but the deal/draw gimmick lowers the overall return to ~99.2%.
I've never seen that machine myself. just read about it.
but in Nevada, the deal draw gimmick can still satisfy the law if the underlying game doesn't do more than 97% return.
ie: 8/5 ddb
Quote: RSBTW, some variants can get tricky with this. You might hit max bet, see 9/6 DDB, and say, "Hey, 9/6 DDB is 98.98%, so this is at least that good [or better]." But what you don't realize, is the base paytable might be something like 8/5, which is like 97% return....so effectively, the game you're playing is at least 97%.
I don't understand.
how can 8/5 ddb goto 9/6 ddb at max bet?
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: RSBTW, some variants can get tricky with this. You might hit max bet, see 9/6 DDB, and say, "Hey, 9/6 DDB is 98.98%, so this is at least that good [or better]." But what you don't realize, is the base paytable might be something like 8/5, which is like 97% return....so effectively, the game you're playing is at least 97%.
I don't understand.
how can 8/5 ddb goto 9/6 ddb at max bet?
I'm not sure what's not to understand. Bet more and paytable changes. I'm pretty sure SuperHand does it. Same with 4oaks on QQ. There's some weird game that does it too with 4oaks, it's called Super Triple or something like that.
Quote: RSQuote: 100xOddshow can 8/5 ddb goto 9/6 ddb at max bet?
I'm not sure what's not to understand. Bet more and paytable changes. I'm pretty sure SuperHand does it. Same with 4oaks on QQ. There's some weird game that does it too with 4oaks, it's called Super Triple or something like that.
ahh.. never seen a vp machine that does that.
only seen payout increase when you goto higher denoms
Quote: rsactuarySo you're saying that payouts other than the Royal Flush go up differently than proportionately when you max bet?
On some variants, yes. I think I saw a superhand paytable for DDB that looked like (at 5 credits/line) -
4000
250
2000
800
800
400
250
8
5
4
3
1
1
Which is standard 8/5 DDB.
Then when you bet 10 credits/line, you get something like this:
4000
250
2000
1000
800
410
260
9
6
4
3
1
1
So if you're playing this on ten play max betting, you'll be dealt ten different hands and paid accordingly for any winners. Then you'll follow by using only the first dealt hand and that will replicate in the other 9 hands just as in standard ten play poker.
For these numbers, the 99.0% part of it depended upon your skill level. Good players got the maximum EV (with large swings), while lesser players received lower EV (again, with large swings.) The deal part of the game involved no skill. You got your full 99.2% (on average) whether you were a good player or bad.
There have been some Action Gaming game variants where playing more coins didn't return more (TDB in Quick Quads, and NSU in Wheel Poker, for example), but these were mistakes and are very rare.
The pay schedules themselves for the deal part of the game look very different from those for the deal because the deal part is a "stud" pay schedule where you cannot improve the hand by drawing.
To check the return on these stud hands, you need to start with creating the frequencies for each of the hands. Such as dealt royals 4, dealt straight flushes 36, dealt aces with kicker 12, dealt aces no kicker 36, etc. Here are some of the harder ones:
Full House 3,744
Flush 5,108
Straight 10,200
3 of a Kind 54,912
Two Pair 123,552
Each specific
pair 84,480 (which is useful to know because if they pay you for 9s or higher, for example, you can figure it out)
no pair 1302540
If you do it correctly, you'll see the numbers add up to 2,598,960.
Once you have those numbers in an Excel spread sheet, it's not very difficult to input the pay schedule and get the return.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe version here is found on the All Star II machines at the bottom under Extra Draw Frenzy. Only three games were available: BP, DW, and DDB. I looked at the DDB which was 9/5 for the draw portion and 10/6 for the deal portion. Minimum hand for the deal pays was a pair of 5's. Dealt royal pays 60,000.
That may be the only place you're seeing them where you are located. They started out as a standalone game. All Star Poker , All Star Poker II, and Star Poker all have a variety of games the slot director may choose from.
Quote: BobDancerThat may be the only place you're seeing them where you are located. They started out as a standalone game. All Star Poker , All Star Poker II, and Star Poker all have a variety of games the slot director may choose from.
Yeah, I've seen them as stand alone as well. I believe Toledo has a few. Maybe as rare as single line Ultimate X, I dunno.
odds of that happening is 1 in 650k.
so don't count on hitting it since that's like hitting a small lottery like NY's 'Take 5'?
http://nylottery.ny.gov/wps/portal/Home/Lottery/Home/Daily+Games/TAKE+5/Take+5+-+Chances+of+Winning
wow.. it counts for .9% of the overall return!
basically, assume the return for Deal/Draw is about 1% less than calculated?
Quote: 100xOddsOn the Deal, you get $60k for a dealt Royal (at $1 denom).
odds of that happening is 1 in 650k.
so don't count on hitting it since that's like hitting a small lottery like NY's 'Take 5'?
http://nylottery.ny.gov/wps/portal/Home/Lottery/Home/Daily+Games/TAKE+5/Take+5+-+Chances+of+Winning
wow.. it counts for .9% of the overall return!
basically, assume the return for Deal/Draw is about 1% less than calculated?
I've had three dealt royals. They happen.
but I get a puzzling result on variance.
payout for dealt Royal drops to 2x Royal from 15x.
variance drops to 35.87 for 9/7 tdb?!?!
deal variance = 5.54, draw variance = 30.33.
normal tdb's variance = 90
I could understand the extremely low deal variance because the dealt Royal isn't worth as much anymore.
but why the big drop in draw variance?!
Quote: DRichUnless I am not understanding something from your post, the odds of a dealt royal is the same on single hand and on 3/5/10/50/100 play.
On Deal/Draw, the game deals out separate hands on the deal mode. Then you only play the initial deal hand for the draw mode. Here's an example:
Quote: IbeatyouracesOn Deal/Draw, the game deals out separate hands on the deal mode. Then you only play the initial deal hand for the draw mode.
Thanks, I didn't realize it was like Double Pay poker.
Quote: DRichThanks, I didn't realize it was like Double Pay poker.
You're welcome. I put a picture above. Notice I haven't drawn yet.
Even less variance if you short coin (9 coins)???
Spoke with a guy who accidentally won $60K in Reno (when he was expecting $4k). He got a dealt royal on $1 and didn't realize he was playing Deal Draw.Quote: 100xOddsOn the Deal, you get $60k for a dealt Royal (at $1 denom).
odds of that happening is 1 in 650k.
Dealt royals on Double Super Times Pay are automatic 20x. (16,000x payout)
Quote: mamat
Dealt royals on Double Super Times Pay are automatic 20x. (16,000x payout)
I wish. You have to get a deal multiplier awarded as well (1 in 15 dealt royals on average).
Quote: tringlomaneI wish. You have to get a deal multiplier awarded as well (1 in 15 dealt royals on average).
That was my understanding. As long as you have any multiplier active, it upgrades to 20x on a dealt royal. Like I'm ever going to get one.
Quote: beachbumbabsThat was my understanding. As long as you have any multiplier active, it upgrades to 20x on a dealt royal. Like I'm ever going to get one.
So around 9,000,000 to 1 shot? I've flopped Sequential Royals, which is much harder. I think we could get one of these 20X Royals one of these days if we keep trying! I have actually had the 4 card dealt scare with the multiplier on the last card a few times. That is a fun sweat!!
Quote: monet0412So around 9,000,000 to 1 shot? I've flopped Sequential Royals, which is much harder. I think we could get one of these 20X Royals one of these days if we keep trying! I have actually had the 4 card dealt scare with the multiplier on the last card a few times. That is a fun sweat!!
Wow. I bet your heart actually stopped for a couple beats while it did its doopie-doopie number spin. Did it come on the draw, then?
Quote: monet0412So around 9,000,000 to 1 shot? I've flopped Sequential Royals, which is much harder. I think we could get one of these 20X Royals one of these days if we keep trying! I have actually had the 4 card dealt scare with the multiplier on the last card a few times. That is a fun sweat!!
Between all of us on this Forum, someone hopefully will one day! It probably won't be me, though, because I never play any of the Double Super Times Pay or even Super Times Pay machines. They'd have to be the best game on the floor.
Around 1/9000000 is about the same as nailing the 10/10 on Keno, which comes in at 1 in 8,911,711.18. My, 'Rarest,' deal came in on Jokers + Deuces Wild upon which I was handed 2-2-2-2-J, 1 in 2,869,685, funny thing is I almost never play that game. That's just a game when I am screwing around at the rare parlor that has it for $10-$20 and I am tired of nickel Keno! Still no dealt Royal, yet, though I do have one Royals on a complete throwaway...might even be two? Definitely one. Multi-Line, though.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIs it possible to get a draw multiplier on a dealt royal on DSTP since the hand is auto held?
Yes. You always have the chance to get a draw multiplier.
One thing I don't like about STP/DSTP is it makes it seem like only un-held cards can be turnt into the "multiplier card", when in reality -- any card can be turnt into the "multiplier card", if that makes sense.
Quote: RSYes. You always have the chance to get a draw multiplier.
One thing I don't like about STP/DSTP is it makes it seem like only un-held cards can be turnt into the "multiplier card", when in reality -- any card can be turnt into the "multiplier card", if that makes sense.
First time I ever play this was in Tunica. I discovered you can get a draw multiplier on a pat hand (drawing no cards) when I held a straight.
I've been playing with this on the video poker pocket app and no draw multiplier has shown up when I make it dealt a royal. Only deal multipliers.
Quote: IbeatyouracesQuote: RSYes. You always have the chance to get a draw multiplier.
One thing I don't like about STP/DSTP is it makes it seem like only un-held cards can be turnt into the "multiplier card", when in reality -- any card can be turnt into the "multiplier card", if that makes sense.
First time I ever play this was in Tunica. I discovered you can get a draw multiplier on a pat hand (drawing no cards) when I held a straight.
I've been playing with this on the video poker pocket app and no draw multiplier has shown up when I make it dealt a royal. Only deal multipliers.
On $1 5-play, I got a dealt flush with a 13x total multiplier (or something above 10x) and got a taxable. Slot attendant was like wtf machine malfunctioned, a dealt flush shouldn't pay that much.
Sigh
Quote: RSQuote: IbeatyouracesQuote: RSYes. You always have the chance to get a draw multiplier.
One thing I don't like about STP/DSTP is it makes it seem like only un-held cards can be turnt into the "multiplier card", when in reality -- any card can be turnt into the "multiplier card", if that makes sense.
First time I ever play this was in Tunica. I discovered you can get a draw multiplier on a pat hand (drawing no cards) when I held a straight.
I've been playing with this on the video poker pocket app and no draw multiplier has shown up when I make it dealt a royal. Only deal multipliers.
On $1 5-play, I got a dealt flush with a 13x total multiplier (or something above 10x) and got a taxable. Slot attendant was like wtf machine malfunctioned, a dealt flush shouldn't pay that much.
Sigh
$5 max bet x 5 for 1 flush x 5 hands x 13 multiplier =$1625.
Nice hit.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: RSQuote: IbeatyouracesQuote: RSYes. You always have the chance to get a draw multiplier.
One thing I don't like about STP/DSTP is it makes it seem like only un-held cards can be turnt into the "multiplier card", when in reality -- any card can be turnt into the "multiplier card", if that makes sense.
First time I ever play this was in Tunica. I discovered you can get a draw multiplier on a pat hand (drawing no cards) when I held a straight.
I've been playing with this on the video poker pocket app and no draw multiplier has shown up when I make it dealt a royal. Only deal multipliers.
On $1 5-play, I got a dealt flush with a 13x total multiplier (or something above 10x) and got a taxable. Slot attendant was like wtf machine malfunctioned, a dealt flush shouldn't pay that much.
Sigh
$5 max bet x 5 for 1 flush x 5 hands x 13 multiplier =$1625.
Nice hit.
Pics or it didn't happen. 🤣
I don't usually play DSTP, and haven't personally been in casino when a 20x royal has been hit.Quote: RSOn DSTP, it needs to be both a dealt royal AND a multiplier on the DEAL to be upgraded automatically to 20x. Getting the multiplier on the DRAW just gives you whatever multiplier you get without the auto-upgrade.
A friend who likes DSTP said any dealt royal gets 20x. When I read the instructions, it seemed to say that a 10X deal & 10x draw was automatic if a royal is dealt. Maybe I'm wrong?
Quote:Bet 6 credits per hand to qualify for the Super Times Pay Multiplier Feature on the deal. Bet 7 credits per hand to qualify for the Super Times Pay Multiplier on the draw. If a Deal multiplier is awarded, it is added to the Draw multiplier when awarded. Win are then paid accordingly to the paytable.
Each multiplier appears randomly an average of 1 in 15 games, awards an average multiplier of 4.01, multiplies the win from 2X to 10X except on a dealt natural royal flush with 7 credits bet where if a deal multiplier is awarded, both the deal and draw multipliers are awarded at 10X. On screen paytable values reflect the total multiplied values when Super Times Pay Multipliers are awarded.
Bold and italics emphasis mine.
And yes, I wrote that all by hand. :(
