Poll

2 votes (13.33%)
2 votes (13.33%)
10 votes (66.66%)
1 vote (6.66%)

15 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
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February 2nd, 2015 at 5:18:55 PM permalink


Dual Action Poker is the second of four video poker variants I noticed at the Rampart casino. The thrust of this one is that the player plays against two pay tables at once and gets paid for both.

Please click the link for my analysis of the game. As always, I welcome comments, questions, and especially corrections.

The question for the poll is would you play this game, assuming the return were the same as conventional video poker?

It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DRich
DRich
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February 2nd, 2015 at 7:07:20 PM permalink
Interesting and thank you for providing it.

Did it take long for you to modify your hand analyzer to calculate the returns based on the blended hold strategy?
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Wizard
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Wizard
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February 2nd, 2015 at 7:15:55 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Interesting and thank you for providing it.

Did it take long for you to modify your hand analyzer to calculate the returns based on the blended hold strategy?



You're welcome. It didn't take that long to modify my program for this game. It was a matter of duplicating a lot of arrays. Took a few hours of programming work. Look Ahead Poker was a lot harder.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Mission146
Mission146
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February 2nd, 2015 at 7:18:42 PM permalink
Has it been determined whether or not a strategy calculator can be used in the State of Nevada on the phone?

The strategy on a by-hand basis would be a simple affair, it would just take two-three minutes to make all but the simplest plays. I guess that you would just look at holds that could be potentially viable and plug the hands into your hand analyzer to see which hold gives the best combined EV.

For example, gut-shot straight draws with no Flush potential could be out with low cards and one high:

5d-6d-8h-9h-Kc Deuces: .340426, Bonus Deluxe: .340426---COMBINED: .680852

Kc ONLY: Deuces-.260970, Bonus Deluxe: .447016---COMBINED: .707986

It seems that you would still hold a gapped straight such as 7-8-9-J-3, though, because you're not tossing a high card.

And, obviously, 8-9-J-Q-3 the gutshot is the best hold in both games, anyway, provided the JQ are not suited, in which event, the suited JQ is the best hold in both games.

The four flush with a single Wild is a hold now, provided the Natural suit of the deuce matches the Flush. If not, and the Flush cards are all 10 or less with no straight possibility, you're holding onto a guaranteed loser on the BPDx and would revert to Deuce only.

Conclusion

I'd play this game if I could use the hand analyzer, though, just for entertainment. Extremely low hourly expected loss (because of the time it takes to play) especially while the player has to learn basic concepts.

This would also be a nice game for people who like DW, but can't stand that rare event where the player is dealt a Wild Royal with one Deuce and has to keep it. Nope, now you throw the Deuce away, even if the Deuce is a natural flush on the BPDx hand!

Can you rig this thing up with your hand calculator, somehow, to come up with an Optimal Strategy. I don't know anything about programming, but it seems that it would just have to add and compare.
Vultures can't be choosers.
rudeboyoi
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February 2nd, 2015 at 8:01:27 PM permalink
I've seen a game like this in a dottys before. That machine with all the graphics and weird games. You can change the payback depending on how much you bet. I think it was called "natural deuces" if I recall correctly.
tringlomane
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February 2nd, 2015 at 9:01:07 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Has it been determined whether or not a strategy calculator can be used in the State of Nevada on the phone?



I would stay it's technically illegal, but I would struggle to think they would prosecute over it. I finally got "caught" and chastised for snapping pics for the first time last week. I felt worse about it than I should have.

One curious question, Wiz, what's the payback of the game in your picture? About 97.5%?
Mission146
Mission146
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February 2nd, 2015 at 10:05:25 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

I would stay it's technically illegal, but I would struggle to think they would prosecute over it. I finally got "caught" and chastised for snapping pics for the first time last week. I felt worse about it than I should have.



I agree with you, that'd be horrible publicity, especially since the goal of using the phone is to play a negative expectation game perfectly.

Could you imagine the Headlines, "Ohio Man Sued for not Playing at Enough Disadvantage"
Vultures can't be choosers.
AxelWolf
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February 3rd, 2015 at 3:04:21 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I agree with you, that'd be horrible publicity, especially since the goal of using the phone is to play a negative expectation game perfectly.

Could you imagine the Headlines, "Ohio Man Sued for not Playing at Enough Disadvantage"

It's doubtful they will mess with the average person to look up a few hands
here and there.

I think the problem would be if you were to find a really good opportunity and you took the casino to the cleaners(using you're phone to help with a strategy). Someone might push the issue. Perhaps they might use it as leverage to get their money back.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizard
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Wizard
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February 3rd, 2015 at 7:24:44 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

I would stay it's technically illegal, but I would struggle to think they would prosecute over it.



I agree. I've used WizPoker at the machines lots of times and nobody has ever said anything. I figure the worst that would realistically happen is I get asked to not do so. Yet, I know other players who are terrified to try, for fear of being arrested.

Quote:

I finally got "caught" and chastised for snapping pics for the first time last week. I felt worse about it than I should have.



I've been questioned for taking pictures of screens several times. Always some over-zealous guard who takes his plastic badge a little too seriously.

Quote:

One curious question, Wiz, what's the payback of the game in your picture? About 97.5%?



I didn't run that one.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
TriathlonTodd
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February 3rd, 2015 at 11:14:45 PM permalink
Thanks for putting up the page Wiz.

This is just conjecture, but I imagine that the return for this game is not the same as a simple average of the return percentages for each individual game. The return percentage for each game is calculated under the assumption that with a given set of dealt cards, the cards to hold or throw away is determined by finding the EV for all 32 options, and choosing the best. If the choice of cards for a Deuces Wild game was applied to a Double Double Bonus game, then there would be a >0 number of cases where the choice of cards would not be appropriate for Double Double Bonus, leading to a lower return percentage for the Double Double Bonus portion, and thus to the overall payback. I would say that the simple average is a theoretical maximum on the return percentage, but it is likely lower.

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