100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
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October 11th, 2014 at 6:39:21 AM permalink
so Horseshoe opened up near me. I want to make Diamond (15k points).
2500 points gets me 5000 bonus points = 7500 points
5k points gets me 10k bonus points = 15k points = Diamond in a day

I usually play e-Craps but I cant figure out how much coin-in for 1 Tier point at this place.

they have a new version of e-Craps that I've never seen before. instead of a number telling you how much more coin-in for the next point, it's a bar.
and because I keep adding/pressing bets, its too much trouble to keep track of my coin-in and watching the bar movement.

anyway, they seem to have decent VP here but it's been a loooong while since I played vp.

to make Diamond the quickest, I'm thinking multi-line is best. (ie: 10 play)

I think they have 10play in both regular VP and Ultimate X.
Which to play for points?

or just play the machine with highest return, even if it's not a multi-line machine?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
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October 11th, 2014 at 8:44:28 AM permalink
Theoretically Ultimate X returns a little bit more and you will also be wagering twice as much on each hand so you will hit your goal sooner. Realistically, Ultimate X has different and more complicated strategy that may not be easy to learn for your purposes. Also the variance is really through the roof on Ultimate X. Odds are very good that you will lose a hell of a lot more money playing Ultimate X unless you are smart and attractive enough to hit a royal or big quads on the hand after a flush/full house. I would personally stay away from Ultimate X but my bankroll is probably a lot smaller than yours.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
RS
RS
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October 11th, 2014 at 9:56:21 AM permalink
Ultimate X is a tough game to play. The strategy is wicked confusing....and the variance is a nut cracker. Also, UTX tends to not have too good of pay-tables and return isn't all that great. Considering it's a CET property, I wouldn't be expecting any good pay tables on any non-traditonal machines.

Depends on your bankroll and the paytables they offer on which denoms and machine styles. Might be better off on a slightly worse return (ie: 8/5 BP instead of 9/6 JOB) if there is no 9/6 JOB on multi-line, for example.

Best case scenario is like a 20-line $0.25 denom 9/6 JOB or 100-line $0.05 denom 9/6 JOB.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 11th, 2014 at 10:40:47 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Ultimate X is a tough game to play. The strategy is wicked confusing....and the variance is a nut cracker. Also, UTX tends to not have too good of pay-tables and return isn't all that great. Considering it's a CET property, I wouldn't be expecting any good pay tables on any non-traditonal machines.

Depends on your bankroll and the paytables they offer on which denoms and machine styles. Might be better off on a slightly worse return (ie: 8/5 BP instead of 9/6 JOB) if there is no 9/6 JOB on multi-line, for example.

Best case scenario is like a 20-line $0.25 denom 9/6 JOB or 100-line $0.05 denom 9/6 JOB.

What he said.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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October 11th, 2014 at 3:30:52 PM permalink
VP kills you in CET properties for tier points. Slots are at least twice as productive, sometimes 4x, sometimes 10x more productive. You have to watch carefully.

I would think enough straightforward coin-in to determine how much/point is worth doing on the bubble craps; might be better than the VP.

I got my DIAD with about 14 hours on QP Platinum at $1.50 max bet. They all tend to return decently; it only cost me about $700 in losses to get it, and it's paid off well more than that in comps since. Of course, at 4am, literally 5 minutes after I gave up on the particular machine I'd played throughout and moved over one (same bank), a lady moved in on it and got the 9 QP's for a $22K jackpot I'd been chasing. I'll never forget that; she came and hugged me in her excitement. What are you going to do?
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 11th, 2014 at 3:50:38 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

VP kills you in CET properties for tier points. Slots are at least twice as productive, sometimes 4x, sometimes 10x more productive. You have to watch carefully.

I would think enough straightforward coin-in to determine how much/point is worth doing on the bubble craps; might be better than the VP.

I got my DIAD with about 14 hours on QP Platinum at $1.50 max bet. They all tend to return decently; it only cost me about $700 in losses to get it, and it's paid off well more than that in comps since. Of course, at 4am, literally 5 minutes after I gave up on the particular machine I'd played throughout and moved over one (same bank), a lady moved in on it and got the 9 QP's for a $22K jackpot I'd been chasing. I'll never forget that; she came and hugged me in her excitement. What are you going to do?

Why did you move?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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October 11th, 2014 at 4:05:14 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Why did you move?



Yeah, thanks. like I haven't been asking myself that. lol!
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Mission146
Mission146
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October 11th, 2014 at 4:06:06 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs



I got my DIAD with about 14 hours on QP Platinum at $1.50 max bet. They all tend to return decently; it only cost me about $700 in losses to get it, and it's paid off well more than that in comps since. Of course, at 4am, literally 5 minutes after I gave up on the particular machine I'd played throughout and moved over one (same bank), a lady moved in on it and got the 9 QP's for a $22K jackpot I'd been chasing. I'll never forget that; she came and hugged me in her excitement. What are you going to do?



How many points did you have to earn for DIAD and how many points did you get per $ bet? I'm trying to figure out how well you ran on the QHP.

By the way, the probability of hitting 9QH is 1/2073600, so you are 50% to hit it after about (1-1/2073600)^1437309.5 = 0.50000003542 ---Or, 1,437,309.5 plays, assuming you can get in 1,000 spins/hour (that's probably slam-spinning, Free Games brings Games/Hour down, even slam-spinning through them), it would take:

1437309.5/1000 = 1437.3095

1,437.3095 hours, or roughly, 59.887895333- days of solid playing before you expect to see that happen.

Further, the jackpot of 22K adds $19,000 of value to that jackpot, or:

(1/2073600) * 19000 = 0.00916280864

Slightly less than a penny, per spin, and because each spin costs $1.50, it adds 0.00916280864/1.5 = 0.00610853909 or 0.61085391% to your expected return.

In a word, worthless. However, it had gone 1,900,000 spins without hitting (assuming $0.01 added to that meter per bet), so:

(1-1/2073600)^1900000 = 0.40000385869

It only reaches that point, or higher, from base about 40% of the time before hitting.

Either way, she got EXTREMELY lucky, but even if you had hit it in fourteen hours, I'd say you'd have gotten EXTREMELY lucky.

Out of curiosity, did you hit 8QH during this time?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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October 11th, 2014 at 4:19:27 PM permalink
For Axel; I was on the same jackpot bank, just moved over a machine. So still chasing the same money.

For Mission.

I was in no particular hurry, so let the songs play and money count down on wins rather than cycling as fast as I could. I hit 7QP 3 times, 6QP about a dozen times, 5QP about 80 times (sorry, wasn't writing this down). Did not hit 8QP or 9QP, though I had on a different machine bank earlier in the day (8QP for $1100; went to lunch, came back, that bank was full, but was ahead $1600 at that point, so went and found another one. Played about 600 tier points of this there). Did not hit the Platinum either, which was at about 13K. Had about 150 bonus rounds. 500 points to make 1 tier point, at 150 points/spin. Needed 5000 points. So exposed 5000 x 500 x .01, or $25,000. Hit some good bonuses early, so was ahead of the machine by $300-700 most of the way, but the last 500 tier points, lost all that and $700 more, at which point I moved to finish up. After I had my 5000 tier points, had to wait for the 6am computer reset for the bonus tier points to register, but it was time for bed anyway. Went and got my diamond cards the next day.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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October 11th, 2014 at 4:32:39 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs



I was in no particular hurry, so let the songs play and money count down on wins rather than cycling as fast as I could. I hit 7QP 3 times, 6QP about a dozen times, 5QP about 80 times (sorry, wasn't writing this down). Did not hit 8QP or 9QP, though I had on a different machine bank earlier in the day (8QP for $1100; went to lunch, came back, that bank was full, but was ahead $1600 at that point, so went and found another one. Played about 600 tier points of this there). Did not hit the Platinum either, which was at about 13K. Had about 150 bonus rounds. 500 points to make 1 tier point, at 150 points/spin. Needed 5000 points. So exposed 5000 x 500 x .01, or $25,000. Hit some good bonuses early, so was ahead of the machine by $300-700 most of the way, but the last 500 tier points, lost all that and $700 more, at which point I moved to finish up. After I had my 5000 tier points, had to wait for the 6am computer reset for the bonus tier points to register, but it was time for bed anyway. Went and got my diamond cards the next day.



That's all pretty good, you lost $700 on $25000 coin-in which is an actual return of 24300/25000 = 97.2%, so you ran significantly better than expected despite the quick beat down getting the last 500 tier points. That's the way of QHP, though, it's feast or famine playing them at an advantage...and playing at a disadvantage is just a straight crap shoot! It seems that you made about 25000/1.5 = 16667 spins, though, so you'll notice with a probability of 1/9327, you actually ran pretty well to hit 7QH three times in that span and you ran right about expectation on 6QH.

Hitting the 8QH earlier in the day was probably the single biggest difference maker. The probability of you doing so was:

1 - (1-1/87617)^16667 = 0.17322833852 or 17.322833852%, and that returns $975 at base, so without that you'd be looking at:

(24300-975)/25000 = 0.933

Which is an expected return of 93.3%, everything else equal, which is still probably a little better than expected based on the base pays of the machine, and that would be due in part to hitting that 7QH three times as well as increases to the Progressives when you hit them and the amount you fed into the Progressives and got back.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219

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