scoob
scoob
Joined: Feb 26, 2014
  • Threads: 3
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February 26th, 2014 at 3:43:25 PM permalink
Hello all, I'm a new member and I hope it's not bad form to start a thread on my first post. I apologize in advance if so. I also apologize if I get too long-winded.

Anyway, I'm a "former" advantage player, but gave up gambling professionally to try to save my marriage about 10 years ago.

In my prior life, I made my money primarily on sports, blackjack, and poker. For various reasons, those opprtunities are not there for me any longer, at least for the amount of time and effort I want to put into them right now.

I have recently discovered that my new girlfriend and I really enjoy video poker, and where I live there is an abundance of advantage play opportunities for low stakes (quarters and dollars). There are opportunities just about every day for at least a 0.5% edge, and a couple days per week a 1.5-2% edge. We only play on promotions where we have a "theortical" edge.

"Theoretical" because while I know I make some mistakes, and don't play perfect, I stick to games I know and have drilled enough to be sure I'm pretty darn close. My girlfriend, on the other hand is not quite there, but if she sticks to 9/6 JoB, she's still playing with a small advantage on those 1.5-2% promos. I'd guess we are cumulatively about even or at a slight disadvantage on the 0.5% days, but with the free food, hotels rooms, and other comps we're still alright.

In addition to the promos we play currently, there are a lot more that we can't play because I work a full-time job. My girlfriend doesn't work so she is available to play these promos when I'm not. She's not exactly a conformist, and for a variety of reasons, it makes more financial sense for her to make $10 an hour playing VP than it does to go back to work and make $15 an hour. It would get her out of the house to go do something she enjoys, maybe make a little money, and keep her away from online shopping sites, ebay, and online casinos.

I'm trying to get to the point where I can trust that she will be able to do this. She is intelligent enough, but just lacks the discipline and focus.

Example: Last week, we are playing a 10x points promo in a casino with a bar that has a bank of full pay triple play quarter GameKing's. The 9/6 jacks is the best option at 102.04% for this promo. These machines are at a premium on promo days and the next best game in the casino is an 8/5 Bonus quarter game. Still likely over 100% at her skill level. So I sit down at the one open triple play machine and she sets off with $100 to the 8/5 Bonus machine. About an hour later, I go check on her and she's playing a nickel, 5-line 6/5 DDB Super Times Play! So, she's playing a game well below 100% even with perfect strategy and 10x points, and I'd guess she's probably 90% proficient at best with her plays on this machine. "I lost $60 in like 15 minutes, so I needed to change it up - I'm only down like $20 on this machine", she says. AAAARG!!!

I've been over the numbers, created cheat sheets with return percentages for all the pay tables, showed her the penalties for playing incorrect strategies or inferior pay tables, and I know she gets it, but still amazes me often.

She gets the numbers, but I think I bore her with all of the statistical minutia I feed her. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can get the importance of game selection and strategy across to her without bogging down in all this? Maybe a good analogy that get my points across. Or maybe it's just a lost cause and I should just let her enjoy herself and have some fun...
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:08:34 PM permalink
I wish I was near a casino that gives 0.25% multiplied by 10X at times. ;)

But yeah...it sounds like you are trying to put your g/f into something she isn't nearly as interested in doing, which is intentionally trying to "beat the house", which obviously takes significant discipline.

My g/f is finally submitting to holding a low pair over two high cards because for awhile she was getting frustrated that low pairs were never hitting for her. In my case, I would just try to gently remind her if I was playing next to her. But then again, she is just playing for 25 or 30c a hand and not trying to make money off the game either.


Quote: scoob



In addition to the promos we play currently, there are a lot more that we can't play because I work a full-time job. My girlfriend doesn't work so she is available to play these promos when I'm not. She's not exactly a conformist, and for a variety of reasons, it makes more financial sense for her to make $10 an hour playing VP than it does to go back to work and make $15 an hour. It would get her out of the house to go do something she enjoys, maybe make a little money, and keep her away from online shopping sites, ebay, and online casinos.



The latter part of this concerns me a lot. Online shopping and casinos??? If you don't convince your g/f to remain on the straight and narrow, her losses will outweigh the wins you grind obviously. Unfortunately, I generally suck with women and don't have any better advice on convincing her what you would like her to do.
movieguy73
movieguy73
Joined: Jun 16, 2012
  • Threads: 5
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:10:08 PM permalink
you could pay her the 10/hr for playing the correct game.
as long as she knows she doesnt get to keep the winnings.
if you dont see the sucker at the table its you!!!
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:11:11 PM permalink
My totally off-the-cuff advice is that if you try to pound the correct VP strategy and approach into her, your relationship will suffer. Might be best to let her enjoy herself and limit the losses.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
  • Threads: 39
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:24:20 PM permalink
Quote: scoob

Hello all, I'm a new member and I hope it's not bad form to start a thread on my first post. I apologize in advance if so. I also apologize if I get too long-winded.

Anyway, I'm a "former" advantage player, but gave up gambling professionally to try to save my marriage about 10 years ago.

In my prior life, I made my money primarily on sports, blackjack, and poker. For various reasons, those opprtunities are not there for me any longer, at least for the amount of time and effort I want to put into them right now.

I have recently discovered that my new girlfriend and I really enjoy video poker, and where I live there is an abundance of advantage play opportunities for low stakes (quarters and dollars). There are opportunities just about every day for at least a 0.5% edge, and a couple days per week a 1.5-2% edge. We only play on promotions where we have a "theortical" edge.

"Theoretical" because while I know I make some mistakes, and don't play perfect, I stick to games I know and have drilled enough to be sure I'm pretty darn close. My girlfriend, on the other hand is not quite there, but if she sticks to 9/6 JoB, she's still playing with a small advantage on those 1.5-2% promos. I'd guess we are cumulatively about even or at a slight disadvantage on the 0.5% days, but with the free food, hotels rooms, and other comps we're still alright.

In addition to the promos we play currently, there are a lot more that we can't play because I work a full-time job. My girlfriend doesn't work so she is available to play these promos when I'm not. She's not exactly a conformist, and for a variety of reasons, it makes more financial sense for her to make $10 an hour playing VP than it does to go back to work and make $15 an hour. It would get her out of the house to go do something she enjoys, maybe make a little money, and keep her away from online shopping sites, ebay, and online casinos.

I'm trying to get to the point where I can trust that she will be able to do this. She is intelligent enough, but just lacks the discipline and focus.

Example: Last week, we are playing a 10x points promo in a casino with a bar that has a bank of full pay triple play quarter GameKing's. The 9/6 jacks is the best option at 102.04% for this promo. These machines are at a premium on promo days and the next best game in the casino is an 8/5 Bonus quarter game. Still likely over 100% at her skill level. So I sit down at the one open triple play machine and she sets off with $100 to the 8/5 Bonus machine. About an hour later, I go check on her and she's playing a nickel, 5-line 6/5 DDB Super Times Play! So, she's playing a game well below 100% even with perfect strategy and 10x points, and I'd guess she's probably 90% proficient at best with her plays on this machine. "I lost $60 in like 15 minutes, so I needed to change it up - I'm only down like $20 on this machine", she says. AAAARG!!!

I've been over the numbers, created cheat sheets with return percentages for all the pay tables, showed her the penalties for playing incorrect strategies or inferior pay tables, and I know she gets it, but still amazes me often.

She gets the numbers, but I think I bore her with all of the statistical minutia I feed her. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can get the importance of game selection and strategy across to her without bogging down in all this? Maybe a good analogy that get my points across. Or maybe it's just a lost cause and I should just let her enjoy herself and have some fun...



I would not risk the relationship. It sounds like she is not interested in being a full-time AP. She would rather have fun and play a variety of games. I guess it's up to you to decide how hard you want to push, but to me a good woman is not worth increasing the already difficult task of having a great long term relationship.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:26:09 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

My totally off-the-cuff advice is that if you try to pound the correct VP strategy and approach into her, your relationship will suffer.



I agree with this. Being too pushy is going to lead to problems. But if she is playing 5-line nickels on a bad paytable (worse than any STP game I have ever seen, fwiw), it's going to be costly to just let her play freely too.

And btw, welcome to the forum scoob! Interesting topic for a first post. I just wish I could be more helpful.
scoob
scoob
Joined: Feb 26, 2014
  • Threads: 3
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:46:46 PM permalink
Thanks for the replies and the advice, everybody. I think the consensus is what I probably already knew deep in my gut. Let her have fun, limit the damage, and don't push too hard.

FWIW, she has out-royaled me 8-4 since we started playing so she's got that going for her (although one was on a nickel 20 coin machine that she hit "BET 5" instead of "BET MAX" and one she held Ah10h, which she'll probably do forever now).
ontariodealer
ontariodealer
Joined: Aug 5, 2013
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:51:19 PM permalink
if she won't listen, withhold sex.
get second you pig
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:56:12 PM permalink
Have SEPARATE gambling accounts and let your GF see her performance over yours... then she may study more but do NOT try to force it or argue about it.

If its to be fun, don't argue. If its to be income,,, you better be sure not to argue about it in any way.

Play. Have fun. If its also "make money" .. congratulations.

Keep accurate records. Stop trying to bore her. She wants to have fun with you and with a VP machine. Let her. Stop with the stats. After she sees her performance levels maybe she will ask you for some more lessons, maybe not.

Play side by side if you want to, but keep your eyes and your mind on your own machine and your own results.

Don't criticize her play. Ever.
scoob
scoob
Joined: Feb 26, 2014
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 15
February 26th, 2014 at 4:57:51 PM permalink
Quote: ontariodealer

if she won't listen, withhold sex.



I hadn't thought of that. My hands per hour would probably suffer with the added stress on my button-pushin' hand, though.

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