Vulturing 'Ultimate X'
Quote: IbeatyouracesLike this one we found at The Palms last week...
Unfortunately, we only profited $20 :-(
Yep, yep. Sounds about right too. :(
Quote: IbeatyouracesLike this one we found at The Palms last week...
Unfortunately, we only profited $20 :-(
$20?!
Man, makes it hard to believe in anything right or good with a lousy return like that.
Yeah, still better than a whiff, I guess.
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Quote: rxwineQuote: IbeatyouracesLike this one we found at The Palms last week...
Unfortunately, we only profited $20 :-(
$20?!
Man, makes it hard to believe in anything right or good with a lousy return like that.
Yeah, still better than a whiff, I guess.
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Deuces Wild. Got dealt a throw away hand and only hit 3 of a kind on two hands. The other 8 bricked.
Quote: Ibeatyouraces
Deuces Wild. Got dealt a throw away hand and only hit 3 of a kind on two hands. The other 8 bricked.
Yeah. My g/f got this in late may. Her first ever deuces. She still hates the game since you "throw everything away" like you did. Wants to play DDB when she has a choice... :-\
Not to be outdone, I hit this later that night... :D
Quote: tringlomaneWants to play DDB when she has a choice... :-\
If I could choose the game upon which I find multipliers, in most cases, (could vary depending on number of hands and what the multipliers are) I would like to find them on BPDx.
Quote: champ724if you have a full screen of multipliers why only bet 5 instead of 10 when you can hve a chance at multiple multiplier screens? and then if you onl;y get a few multipliers then bet 5. i always bet 10 when i find full multiplier UX.
Your payout is the same whether you bet 5 or 10 coins. The current hand has nothing to do with the EV of the next hand. You maximize your EV betting 5 coins on a hand with multipliers.
Quote: champ724got ya i just bet ten on .05 and .10 to try and get multiplier screens thought it would be smart and have mnore chances to hit a big hand.
You will have more chances, but at the cost of sacrificing EV. A good example is... Why don't you just play the machine for hours on end? Then you'll have the most chances possible to hit something big ;).
Quote: 21formeHas anyone else noticed that the number of available mults are dropping off compared with a year or two ago?
I attribute this to two factors, at least in my area:
1. The number of vultures has increased.
2. The ploppies have lost interest in UX because of the lousy pay tables, especially at the 5 and 10 cent levels.
yup, same thing at my local casino.
6months ago, used to put $60-$80 coin-in on screens with multipliers.
(might be only a sole 2x on a 10play, but still, vultures cant be picky.)
nowadays, I don't even put $20 coin-in :(
I Vote #1. :(
Quote: GWAEIt couldn't possibly be from everyone talking about it on places like this.
LOL perfect. Yeah, this 3 years old, 42 page thread that's been viewed 30k times- surely hasn't increased knowledge/interest in vulturing.
Quote: surrender88sLOL perfect. Yeah, this 3 years old, 42 page thread that's been viewed 30k times- surely hasn't increased knowledge/interest in vulturing.
Mission, Wizard, BBB, etc., could always "remove" it ;-)
The bigger problem might be the, "Pics or it didn't happen," mentality. Actually seeing a visual of these good hits might compel people more than merely hearing about it.
Quote: RomesYou will have more chances, but at the cost of sacrificing EV. A good example is... Why don't you just play the machine for hours on end? Then you'll have the most chances possible to hit something big ;).
If you're going to play one hand or many, it's +EV to find a starting condition with multipliers.
I will not reveal the rules, locations, or multiplier entry point. But if you see it at your local establishment, take some time to study it.
15+15?! Are they trying to kill us?!Quote: chaunceyb3There is a newer IGT video poker variant called Barnyard Poker. It is a triple play, 15+15 coin game. With more installations, it could be the next Ultimate X and Multi-Streak VP.
I will not reveal the rules, locations, or multiplier entry point. But if you see it at your local establishment, take some time to study it.
Quote: Mission146If I could choose the game upon which I find multipliers, in most cases, (could vary depending on number of hands and what the multipliers are) I would like to find them on BPDx.
And this is why. Any quad is 400. Although I wouldn't have minded this one on DB, DDB or TDB and a higher denomination...
Quote: AxelWolfI wonder if anyone makes 150+ a day on average just on UX?
In 2009-2010 (UX released Nov 2008 I think), 200+/day in Las Vegas was possible.
Towards the end of 2010, finding around 120/day (Theo).
Fast forward 5 years, surprised UX is still around. 2-3 years ago, there were still casinos where no one was "working"/"vulturing" UX,
but every good casino (e.g. lots of "plays") I know has dedicated locals.
Back in 2009-2012, it was more common to find loaded machines ($40-60+/machine)...usually when a machine could go 2-7 days without being searched. As players play UX for years, many players who repeatedly see the vulturing" community progressively leave fewer multipliers. Usually players leave $3-$9/day/machine. If you see less than that, usually means someone is wiping out multipliers.
If you see a machine with no multipliers, but all games show 10-coin, then there was a dedicated player who switches games & always plays until no multipliers exist.
If you see a machine with lots of old 7X-10X-12Xs and all games show 5-coin, someone was scammed on the machine by a "creator" (someone who puts people on slots to pump up bonuses).
When I used to keep records, average odds were 147-150% (rather than the 205%? necessary for break-even at 10 credits).
The best situations I've seen in 2014-2015 have been $12/hr weekdays in daytime, $20-50/hr weekends or holidays/tournament/promotion days.
Value of casino UX is #machines/casino x $3-9/machine/day.
Some casinos outside Vegas have 40-80 UX machines (Maybe $80,000/yr is max I've seen).
Due to competition, I doubt anyone makes more than $40,000/yr ($110/day).
$150+/day ($300-500/day) is possible for some weekend warriors (who also play weekday evenings & promotional days).
I haven't spent more than a few days in Las Vegas in 2011-2015, so I don't know the current possibilities. When checking one UX machine in Las Vegas 2014, I was chatting with the guy playing next to me. He said ~20 people had searched the machine before me.
Las Vegas picked up some heat starting in 2010 (I was warned about "fishing" in Red Rock, and surrounded by 6 security people in Luxor just talking to someone searching UX - he hadn't played anything yet). Rumor has it that "creators" are responsible for increased surveillance attention.
Most non-Las Vegas casinos are very vulture-friendly. In some cases, the slots department has given the official OK to "searching for multipliers". From the slot department's perspective, they make $100-200-400/day/machine, and only lose -$3-9/day/machine to "vultures". Many people who "vulture", eventually play 10-coin because they get hooked on the game - so they win $100/day searching, and lose -$1,000 to -$2,000 playing heads-up.
In the beginning, I was +$800 playing heads-up, but probably -$5,000 lifetime. No royals while betting 10-coin, very bad.
Best find: 9-7X & 1-3X 10-play $2 Deuces at Red Rock (98% x $560 Theo).
Best unconfirmed story: Friend found All 12Xs 5-play $5, dealt four to Royal ($240,000/Royal), didn't even get a pair, lost -$125.
In areas with good UX, I hit $100+ once/wk, $200+ 1.5 times/month, $400+ three times/yr, $1,000+ twice/year, $2,000+ once/yr.
Have fun everyone!
Quote: beachbumbabsWelcome to the forum, mamat! I know several people on here will really enjoy reading your posts. I don't know much about vulturing, but I understood most of what you said. However, I can't seem to get the concept of "creators" and what they accomplish, or who they accomplish it for. Would you mind explaining that in a bit more detail? Thanks!
It was a scam perpetrated by people suckering civilians into playing UX normally at ten credits but as soon as the civilian would get a load of large multipliers on the screen, these scammers would now have the civilians quit playing by lying to them saying the game is no good or some other reason. Then after the civilian leaves, the scammer or an accomplice plays off the large multipliers.
And no, I never have nor would ever practice this. I just learned about it a few months ago.
Quote: teddysI found a 9/6 DDB pay table for quarters and played it for quite a long time. I hit a 3x Royal for $3,000 and still lost my a$$!!
Sorry you still lost. When I practice full-pay UX, I swing +/- 60,000 credits. 3x Royal is 12,000 credits. Need the dealt quads & high-multiplier royals to succeed heads-up.
No royals heads-up (10 credits), so I'm down -$5,000 or so.
15 royals with "found" multipliers, but no multipliers above nickels. (2X 2X 3X at nickels)
Another guy hit $8,000 (8x 0.25 Royal) last month on a "found" multiplier.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIt was a scam perpetrated by people suckering civilians into playing UX normally at ten credits but as soon as the civilian would get a load of large multipliers on the screen, these scammers would now have the civilians quit playing by lying to them saying the game is no good or some other reason. Then after the civilian leaves, the scammer or an accomplice plays off the large multipliers.
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It's fun to see people mess with the "creators". Once in awhile someone plays along, loads up all the UX games with big multipliers, and then plays them all off with 5 credits. It's funny. :-)
I remember someone here saying something along the linesQuote: IbeatyouracesIt was a scam perpetrated by people suckering civilians into playing UX normally at ten credits but as soon as the civilian would get a load of large multipliers on the screen, these scammers would now have the civilians quit playing by lying to them saying the game is no good or some other reason. Then after the civilian leaves, the scammer or an accomplice plays off the large multipliers.
And no, I never have nor would ever practice this. I just learned about it a few months ago.
about how he would try to annoy people or something, just to get them to leave with active multipliers. I was seriously annoyed at this. DON'T mess with the customers. Advantage players are already disliked because they beat the house. You start messing with their losing customers and it's bad for everyone.
Quote: AxelWolfI remember 21frome or someone saying something along the lines
about try to annoy people or something just to get them to leave with multipliers left behind. I was seriously annoyed at this. DON'T mess with the customers.
"Creators" are well aware of their playable lifetime in each casino, and do their best to stay undercover.
Anyone trying to annoy people into leaving multipliers is an idiot.
Quote: AxelWolfHonestly, I think this is a bad thing to post about. No doubt it's going to give some knucklehead some really bad ideas.
Most "creators" have left Vegas.
Sometimes I report them to "security".
If you think it's a bad idea to post about that, I edited my post (can you delete the "quote"?). I'm actually surprised anyone posts about "live" bonus machines which can still be found. There was much less info on-line 3 years ago (Now, there's Liston's Million Dollar Slots from 2012).
Quote: IbeatyouracesIt was a scam perpetrated by people suckering civilians into playing UX normally at ten credits but as soon as the civilian would get a load of large multipliers on the screen, these scammers would now have the civilians quit playing by lying to them saying the game is no good or some other reason. Then after the civilian leaves, the scammer or an accomplice plays off the large multipliers.
And no, I never have nor would ever practice this. I just learned about it a few months ago.
We've had people 86ed for doing this to customers. Something we've had to look out for from time to time.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIt was a scam perpetrated by people suckering civilians into playing UX normally at ten credits but as soon as the civilian would get a load of large multipliers on the screen, these scammers would now have the civilians quit playing by lying to them saying the game is no good or some other reason. Then after the civilian leaves, the scammer or an accomplice plays off the large multipliers.
And no, I never have nor would ever practice this. I just learned about it a few months ago.
I've only seen it once, at the Linq in Vegas this February. I was going to report it to security...but by the time I found someone to inform, they were already on it?!?!?! Dude got kicked out at the minimum.
. A person isn't going to just stop playing. Or are you saying that if 9 machines are loaded but someone is playing the 10th, they try to get them off the game because they know it is also loaded?
If that is the case, those people are real scum.
Quote: mamata "creator" (someone who puts people on slots to pump up bonuses).
what this means mystifies me. Do you mean the casino uses shills? Or do you mean a player goes around encouraging strangers to play Ultimate X that he thinks will leave multipliers? or what?
Quote: odiousgambitwhat this means mystifies me. Do you mean the casino uses shills? Or do you mean a player goes around encouraging strangers to play Ultimate X that he thinks will leave multipliers? or what?
Imagine me and you at the casino (both just regular gamblers, not casino employees). I tell you how great Ultimate X is and get you to play it. then you hit a dealt full house, then convince you to take your money and run, because the variance is huge.
You believe me and leave... and I get a free hand with 12x multipliers, because I'm going to jump on the machine as soon as you're out of eyesight.
Since the casinos are aware of this scam (at least some of them) and cracking down on it, I don't think it's quite as urgent as Axel did to take it down, but I appreciate that you did and why, mamat. Since you originated the post, I'll give Axel the day to decide whether to take his quote of your now edited post down; I expect he will. Chances are the timing is the only reason he didn't.
Quote: rsactuaryImagine me and you at the casino (both just regular gamblers, not casino employees). I tell you how great Ultimate X is and get you to play it. then you hit a dealt full house, then convince you to take your money and run, because the variance is huge.
You believe me and leave... and I get a free hand with 12x multipliers, because I'm going to jump on the machine as soon as you're out of eyesight.
The scammers are sophisticated. They want the "sucker/ploppy/customer" to make a lot of money. Otherwise, they won't be able to play all the games on the machine, & leave multipliers everywhere. They usually start at 0.25, and work their way up the denominations (0.50, 1.00). When you are "vulturing" a machine, if you see EVERY game set to 5 coins, with tons of old 4X-12X multipliers, you can report this to security (especially if you see that someone got a huge hit). Surveillance can wind back their cameras to catch the culprit (if they feel like it).
Rumor is that many Las Vegas casinos are sending these people to jail, and not just 86'ing them.
P.S. There are more advanced scam strategies which are not as obvious (e.g. don't have to be next to the "victim"). In other words, you have to convince a player to leave multipliers all on their own. In this case, the victim must be able to play video poker on their own...but still not understand the "next hand" multiplier. Very creative, some of these scammers.
[This is old news circa 2009. Scam has been around for 6+ years.]
I overheard this a couple of years ago.
Quote: IbeatyouracesAs sad as this may sound coming from me, but to some of the regulars that play UX, when they ask me what I'm doing as I'm scrolling through games, I'll be honest with them and actually advise them NOT to leave any. I don't do this for everyone, just regulars that I get to know well. Some still don't take the advice though.
I do the same, and advise players they CAN play 5 credits to play off their multipliers.
And not play 1-4 credits when they are running out of money (especially if big multipliers exist).
I also warn them about maybe hitting a dealt full house or flush....on that last bet of 5.
This has happened to me MANY times when playing 10-credits myself.
Saw one guy play off his multipliers, and hit a royal on his "go away" hand. Called his wife over to see, and they both had a good laugh.
Some people legitimately either (1) Don't want the disappointment of hitting a good hand on their "exit" hand. (2) Are playing for the big hits, and don't care about leaving little stuff. Many regular players I know happily give me their machines & tell me if they've left a lot of multipliers. Liike leaving change for tweakers. If it's less than 2.0X average, they don't care.
Probably helps that I play 10-coin UX, so that the players don't that I don't just "vulture" machines. Some players are really pissed at people who just "vulture". Often, if I sense someone is being annoyed (usually I don't try to search machines next to players who can be annoyed), I will start playing 3x0.25 Jacks or Bonus for 10-credits. Sometimes I just play until the multipliers disappear (usually costs no more than -$20 on quarters). Other times, I play for a while. It's a 98-99% play with slight -EV (but big swings).
If someone asks "what am I doing?", I sometimes demonstrate by playing 10-coin, leaving multipliers, switch games, come back. I also tell them it's hard work searching, and you won't find that page of 12Xs more than once every few months, but you won't lose too much money. Most people will go back to playing 10-coins, they are in casinos for the big hit, not to make $12/hr walking around the casino (That would be too much like "work",...and they are there for fun.)
Quote: DRich" I always recommend switching games after a Flush or Full House because....
if you don't, it disrupts the natural flow of the simulated cards.
Beautiful line, but it's a dirty move.
How can they arrest people for this.For telling someone to play a machine and then telling them to quit?I doubt that you can be arrested for that.Quote: mamatThe scammers are sophisticated. They want the "sucker/ploppy/customer" to make a lot of money. Otherwise, they won't be able to play all the games on the machine, & leave multipliers everywhere. They usually start at 0.25, and work their way up the denominations (0.50, 1.00). When you are "vulturing" a machine, if you see EVERY game set to 5 coins, with tons of old 4X-12X multipliers, you can report this to security (especially if you see that someone got a huge hit). Surveillance can wind back their cameras to catch the culprit (if they feel like it).
Rumor is that many Las Vegas casinos are sending these people to jail, and not just 86'ing them.
P.S. There are more advanced scam strategies which are not as obvious (e.g. don't have to be next to the "victim"). In other words, you have to convince a player to leave multipliers all on their own. In this case, the victim must be able to play video poker on their own...but still not understand the "next hand" multiplier. Very creative, some of these scammers.
[This is old news circa 2009. Scam has been around for 6+ years.]
The whole picture of this is 'creator' stuff is giving me a little trouble. How many 'marks' are you going to come across? If a guy was going around making a big effort to find them - and being successful at it - wow, now that's a skill.
Personally, I find gamblers are a little wary of other gamblers and for good reason. Somebody who could make much money at all doing this would be very talented as a con-man. If he's that good he can think of better scams I think.
Wonder what happened?
Hendon Mob link: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=233
Quote: phendricksThere's an Ultimate X vulture and creator named "Syracuse" Chris Tsiprailidis. If you play at Borgata, then you have seen him walking around. He was a former poker professional with a WSOP bracelet and $2.7 million in recorded winnings. Once was in the top 50 on the all time world money list. Last tournament cash was 6 and a half years ago.
Wonder what happened?
Hendon Mob link: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=233
I'm still trying to figure out how 5th place only paid $3800 in a $5000 entry tournament in December 08?
Quote: BozI'm still trying to figure out how 5th place only paid $3800 in a $5000 entry tournament in December 08?
Only 16 players
Quote: HunterhillQuote: mamatRumor is that many Las Vegas casinos are sending these people to jail, and not just 86'ing them.
How can they arrest people for this.For telling someone to play a machine and then telling them to quit?I doubt that you can be arrested for that.
They can't - it's BS. There have been some arrests of machine APs using fake IDs.
