Fifteen Video Poker Machines
Does anyone have any knowledge of what bars/taverns/parlors in Vegas do Free Play or Match Play on their Video Poker machines? I have to find some +ER in a real hurry or my Free Play article is going to fail miserably as I will not be able to generate enough ER to theoretically cover all of the costs of the Vegas trip.
It would suck trying to go in for an AP, only to end up with a P in your A :(
I have a feeling if you were to follow any of TK's advice you will have have negative EV.Quote: tournamentkingI'd like to help because I play a lot of free play on bartops that have slots, vp, and/or keno in the same machines, but I'm not clear on the question. If you have free play already, I can't think of a bartop that won't accept free play..
Quote: PerditionI remember reading a thread on here that some of the best plays and free play options were found in gay bars. Unfortunately some were more of the "aggressive" type where the dudes took what they wanted.
It would suck trying to go in for an AP, only to end up with a P in your A :(
WHAT!?
I remember saying something about a few gay bars having promotions. Not sure if it was on here or not. I doubt they have anything better then the normal. And the rest of that is BS. However it was funnyQuote: PerditionI remember reading a thread on here that some of the best plays and free play options were found in gay bars. Unfortunately some were more of the "aggressive" type where the dudes took what they wanted.
It would suck trying to go in for an AP, only to end up with a P in your A :(
Quote: AxelWolfI have a feeling if you were to follow any of TK's advice you will have have negative EV.
Why be so mean-spirited, even though you really have no clue? Something tells me you have too much conflict in your life to be able to help anybody.
One only needs to read all of your posts and they can see what I'm saying. You are one step away from Varmenti and gr8player.Quote: tournamentkingWhy be so mean-spirited, even though you really have no clue? Something tells me you have too much conflict in your life to be able to help anybody.
I said it before I think your gambling advice is dangerous.
If you are insinuating I don't have the knowledge to help anyone make money while gambling, then I assure you that would be absolutely WRONG. The only conflict I would have is teaching anyone, It has came back to bite me in the ass. When I started, I created a well known notorious monster. On the other hand I have some guys that could verify my credibility and assure you I have helped them learn and make easy money. If you would be willing to make it worth my time and effort, I could prove what I'm saying. For a large wager I will do it right in front of you. Or even a contest of some sort.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/12184-best-vegas-local-bars-for-vp/
http://tbirdlounge.com/gaming/
And don't forget the Cosmo and Las Vegas Club loss promos. Those are the two easiest ones I am aware of at the moment.
He will be eligible for the $20, but not the $200. I went in hopes of the $200 and made a mistake, I gave the bartender my ID Thinking i was going to get the $200...oops, only after the bartender told me I would only be receiving $20 because of my zip code. Now since i had a card, even if they added my zip code to the list of a bar near by, I would not be eligible since the cards are all linked. Not to mention even after I cycled more then the $20, I didn't get my free play. The bartender insisted I didn't wager $20.(whats new) I insisted I did. So I asked him. how many points do you get when you play one dollar? He said, 1 point per hand. I asked him how I got over 20 points then? He was confused and said, "good point". I then played 25 hands in front of him, still no free play. I asked him if I had to lose $20. He said, Oh yes, that's probably it. I said, doubtful because if i hit a Royal, I would have to lose $1,020 to get $20. Bartender made a call and then said, "sorry ill just put in $20 for you."Quote: tringlomaneAccording to their site T-Bird gives you $20 for signing up. There was a thread talking about this place and elsewhere. Looks to be this thread. But what Axel wrote in the thread, it may sound like you might not be eligible for it since you're a tourist.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/12184-best-vegas-local-bars-for-vp/
http://tbirdlounge.com/gaming/
And don't forget the Cosmo and Las Vegas Club loss promos. Those are the two easiest ones I am aware of at the moment.
JimmyFocker said that they let anyone do the $200 , Including out of state players, perhaps a particular Tbirds bartender is making a mistake. I know at least one other forum member that will verify they said," only local zip codes." Give it a try, it cant hurt.
That little focker is lying then. JK, hopefully he had a dumb bartender or smart however you want to look at it.Quote: DRichT-Birds rule is definitely local zip code for the $200. In the past they have also required people to present the mailer that is sent out to the zip codes near their locations.
Quote: AxelWolfOne only needs to read all of your posts and they can see what I'm saying. You are one step away from Varmenti and gr8player.
I said it before I think your gambling advice is dangerous.
If you are insinuating I don't have the knowledge to help anyone make money while gambling, then I assure you that would be absolutely WRONG. The only conflict I would have is teaching anyone, It has came back to bite me in the ass. When I started, I created a well known notorious monster. On the other hand I have some guys that could verify my credibility and assure you I have helped them learn and make easy money. If you would be willing to make it worth my time and effort, I could prove what I'm saying. For a large wager I will do it right in front of you. Or even a contest of some sort.
You didn't help yourself with that rant. Bets, wagers, blah blah blah. Everybody's a ferrocious brute in anonymous clothing when it comes to the internet. I choose not to be like that because it does no good. You don't know everything, and you know precious little about me. Only a fool asks to go up against that.
Quote: tournamentkingYou didn't help yourself with that rant. Bets, wagers, blah blah blah. Everybody's a ferrocious brute in anonymous clothing when it comes to the internet. I choose not to be like that because it does no good. You don't know everything, and you know precious little about me. Only a fool asks to go up against that.
But in Axel's defense, you haven't said anything detailed that is advantage play in terms of slot machines from what I have read so far. And discrediting video poker entirely is just shortsighted. Maybe plays aren't great where you are, but at least with video poker, you know exactly where you stand with the machine itself, unlike slot machines. Axel may be a bit skeptical, but he knows what he is talking about. And I have heard it from his face...not just the internet.
Thank you Tring, well spoken as always, I take back all my Miley Cyrus jokes. Not only has he said nothing about advantage slot play he has practically outed himself as just the opposite. It really is hard to fake being an AP unless you know how to AP. You can pick up bits and pieces from the internet. but putting it together and having it make sense really wont add up, You can easily tell the level of ones AP play and knowledge. It would be like me trying to claim I'm a writer.Quote: tringlomaneBut in Axel's defense, you haven't said anything detailed that is advantage play in terms of slot machines from what I have read so far. And discrediting video poker entirely is just shortsighted. Maybe plays aren't great where you are, but at least with video poker, you know exactly where you stand with the machine itself, unlike slot machines. Axel may be a bit skeptical, but he knows what he is talking about. And I have heard it from his face...not just the internet.
Quote: tournamentkingEverybody's a ferrocious brute in anonymous clothing when it comes to the internet.
You're right, I'm one bad mother...on the internet.
Quote: tringlomaneBut in Axel's defense, you haven't said anything detailed that is advantage play in terms of slot machines from what I have read so far. And discrediting video poker entirely is just shortsighted. Maybe plays aren't great where you are, but at least with video poker, you know exactly where you stand with the machine itself, unlike slot machines. Axel may be a bit skeptical, but he knows what he is talking about. And I have heard it from his face...not just the internet.
It's admirable, I suppose, doing what you can to support someone who would rather attack the messenger instead of the message. And it's evident he needs that by his weak follow-up. If he's skeptical over my "lack" of infotmation it's because I'm probably unlike the majority, in that unlike the vp aps, I don't often go around crowing about this skill or that play, likely ruining things for myself or others like me.I believe real AP's know when to say what and why, and they don't go around soliciting bets when they get frustrated with others, ESPECIALLY when they have no idea who they're challenging or what their target's capabilities are. So whether or not he or you accept it, axel still has a lot to learn.
Video poker is one of the biggest money makers for the casinos, nevermind how many "famous" or hot shot players or ap's that might write about it or try so hard to claim it's all the "others" who lose while they win. It really isn't as simple as you say either. From my perspective, most players but the luckiest lose. I've read much of our forum host's analyses on the game and he's a surefire expert. How's he done through the years? Fortunately, playing slots with an edge isn't saddled with all that math like vp is, although there is some. And slot play is far different than the poker machines, in that I truly do believe vp players get their minds corrupted by the ugly habit once they're drawn into those devilish machines. They take over their lives unlike any other casino game, just ask Mr. Dancer. And I was always a believer in him.
So step back a moment and look at the entire picture. Is axel's "skepticism" warranted, or is he even qualified to assume a thing about me.
If he's skeptical over my "lack" of infotmation it's because I'm probably unlike the majority, in that unlike the vp aps, I don't often go around crowing about this skill or that play, likely ruining things for myself or others like me.
Quote: tournamentking
I too am an advantage slot player, and I've done well over the years using a lot of spare time
I hit an $82k $10 progressive at Bellagio five years ago on a wall bank, but I put in months of study beforehand. There've been others, but starting about half that amount and reducing from there.
I am an advantage SLOTS player
I'm pretty good at using these kind of slot tournaments as a positive play. I play exceptionally fast
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
AxelWolf
BTW: If anything, consultants and radio shows do 1000x more damage when it comes to ruining things for others. Please give me an instance where I outed a valuable play or gave information on how best to exploit something that would hurt the AP community.
Quote: tournamentking
playing slots with an edge isn't saddled with all that math like vp is
AxelWolf
That is one example of why I know your full of it.
That's like a doctor saying, "that's why I like holistic medicine more because real doctors have to use all that real medicine, science and stuff"
Quote: tournamentking
I'm not very much concerned with the meter rate
AxelWolf
*Face palm*
Give an example. You just generalize everything with no real content. Off the top of my head The only slots I can think of where you would have an advantage on, where meter movement is not an important part of AP'ing them would be bonus banking one's . With bonus banking machines, the banking is a type of meter move IMO. This would also exclude any AP promotion, such as 35x points or double jackpot situations. I would agree something like that would not require any meter move to make it profitable. If your insinuating that meter movement on slot progressive means nothing, that's simply foolish and idiotic. If there is some rare instance please explain.Quote: tournamentkingGive it up. Meter rates are important stats for the vp crowd, but they mean nothing to a slots ap. Incorporating such a stat into slot play tends to bring out other assumptions that always hurt more than help.
I would bet if you ask any sane authority on smart gambling or AP, someone like Peter Liston Wizard or your beloved Bob Dancer they would agree with me. I know your going to say Bob is a Video poker expert and not a slot expert however I would venture to say if he would play a slot AP if the situation was right.
I'm surprised you have not been picked apart like Varmenti and gr8player, everything your saying about slots is the equivalent to their BAC theories. Then again you really have not said anything substantial, just a lot of nothing.
Not real sure what you meant by an example. ANY progressive slot jackpot can be approached with an advantage, over a certain amount of time and after producing multiple jackpots.
I know Dancer and other vp ap's will occasionally play the progressive slots when they get big enough. But they're mainly guessing and relying on incomplete facts as a way of pretending that the math is "in their favor". He was sitting at the bank of machines I was playing when I hit the $82k in Bellagio. But when these type people go after such jackpots without doing very much homework, all they're doing is taking potshots, while I'm in a whole different zone.
Quote: rdw4potusAre you really in trouble for the article? What if your wife had her own coupons and mirrored your plays? Make it about how a couple could visit for free.....That gives you twice the freeplay and match play, and it also lets you better count the value of 2 for 1 food/drink offers.
That's basically including all that. It's cool, we're just looking to have a good time now and sticking to downtown casinos for Free/Match play offers.
Twilight zone.Quote: tournamentkingwhile I'm in a whole different zone.
tournamentking
"and after producing multiple jackpots"
Axel
What the hell dose that have to do with playing a slot?
I really think after I ask you something, you look something up online then you are regurgitating what you read online and then retyping it in your own words from your understanding.
EXPLAIN to me how YOU figure out when to play a slot. From what I understand you watch other people who think know what they are doing then follow their lead. Then I will address your nonsense about meter move.
Quote: AxelWolfEXPLAIN to me how YOU figure out when to play a slot. From what I understand you watch other people who think know what they are doing then follow their lead. Then I will address your nonsense about meter move.
Axel, I would give up at this point. I agree with you, but I don't think you're going to get anything out of him.
Something about "wising up a chump" and/or "not feeding the trolls."
Quote: tournamentkingAxel, it is NEVER the meter RATE that's important in slots, but the meter AMOUNT. If you study the ones you're going after for a good amount of time, you understand them sometimes well enough to play them. Measuring meter rates would be fine if you had other very pertinent data, but slots do not provide,that. That's what I meant by assumptions doing more hurt than good. Guessing at the payback % is a fool's game indeed. I don't care what Mr. Mickey Crimm says, he rewrites history every time he spins a tale.
Rob, er, tournamentking, it doesn't matter if it's a video poker progressive or slot progressive. Both can be reverse engineered. In the case of slots, even just an empirical study gives up loads of information. And if you studied that Bellagio slot progressive then all you did was an empirical. If meter movement is of no consequence, then which would you play:
There are three banks of dollar 9/6 Jacks progressives in the same casino. The three banks are not linked together....but all three banks show a $9200 Royal. Bank #1 has a .5% meter. Bank #2 has a 1% meter. Bank #3 has a 2% meter.
If you don't think meter movement means anything then Axel, myself, and the others will be on the 2% bank while you blast away on the .5% bank.
Quote: mickeycrimmThere are three banks of dollar 9/6 Jacks progressives in the same casino. The three banks are not linked together....but all three banks show a $9200 Royal. Bank #1 has a .5% meter. Bank #2 has a 1% meter. Bank #3 has a 2% meter. If you don't think meter movement means anything then Axel, myself, and the others will be on the 2% bank while you blast away on the .5% bank.
TK, you will eventually see us down on the .5% bank. First, we're gonna snap off the 2% bank, then snap off the 1% bank. Then we'll join you on the .5% bank. That's how AP's think.
Quote: mickeycrimmThere are three banks of dollar 9/6 Jacks progressives in the same casino. The three banks are not linked together....but all three banks show a $9200 Royal. Bank #1 has a .5% meter. Bank #2 has a 1% meter. Bank #3 has a 2% meter.
A little more on meter movement, TK. Using the arbitrary number of $9200 as your playable number on a 9/6 Jacks progressive, which bank will you get the most plays on in a year's time? On all three banks the meter starts at $4000 and must move $5200 before you will play.
On bank #1 the royal has to miss 208,000 games before you get a playable number.
5200 X 200 divided by $5 = 208,000 games.
On bank #2 the royal has to miss 104,000 games before you get a playable number.
5200 times 100 divided by $5 = 104,000 games.
On bank #3 the royal has to miss 52,000 games before you get a playable number.
5200 times 50 divided by $5 = 52,000 games.
Use the strength of meter rise and it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out which bank the bulk of the plays will develop on. You'll get a play every once and a blue moon on bank #1. You'll get an occasional play on bank #2. But you are gonna get a whole lot of plays on bank #3--the royal only has to miss just a little more than one cycle to get a play.
And guess what? Playing 1000 hph and using a royal strategy that produces a royal an average of every 33,000 games this is what the hourly rate looks like:
Bank #1: $183 per hour
Bank #2: $208 per hour
Bank #3: $256 per hour
Now let's say these three banks are in different casinos. You haven't been out and about for a few days. Which casino will you head to first to see if there is a playable progressive? The first place I'm going to check is whichever casino has bank #3.
Now let's say you know where every progressive in town is located....and you've analyzed them all. Now what are you gonna do mister progressive player? I'll tell you what the AP's do. They don't waste their time going to check an 8/5 Jacks bank with a 1% meter. You're lucky to get a play every two years on something like that. The AP's spend their time monitoring the progressive banks that have the strongest combination of base game plus meter speed.
That's how it's done, TK. And I didn't write this for your benefit. I wrote it for the benefit of others who might be interested in how AP's do it. Whether you believe it or not, I'm in my 18th consecutive winning year as a VP pro. I've never, never, never even come close to having a losing year--and I never will have one.
You claim to win for what was it, 18 years? Great. Lots of people do as do I. How's it feel not to have to prove it?
There are fixed odds to any hit on a slot. I trust me much more than TK to figure out what those odds are. TK just puts up mouth. Never an equation. Nothing but mouth.
Yes I know, but I cant help myself. I see he totally avoided my question. I can confidently say TK is NOT A REAL SLOT AP. He may be leaching off others information and following their lead. Anyone who dose not try to calculate meter move in to their slot progressive play is just fooling themselves into thinking they are a Pro slot player. Their are slot progressive plays that one would play only for the meter movement.Quote: AcesAndEightsAxel, I would give up at this point. I agree with you, but I don't think you're going to get anything out of him.
Something about "wising up a chump" and/or "not feeding the trolls."
Most slots have such a huge hold, large jackpots can be deceiving.
I want one example of a progressive play he has played with an advantage. or an example of how he knows its an advantage. Post up some numbers.
I just get the feeling he is a formerly suspended member recreating himself.
Quote: AxelWolfYes I know, but I cant help myself. I see he totally avoided my question. I can confidently say TK is NOT A REAL SLOT AP. He may be leaching off others information and following their lead. Anyone who dose not try to calculate meter move in to their slot progressive play is just fooling themselves into thinking they are a Pro slot player. Their are slot progressive plays that one would play only for the meter movement.
Most slots have such a huge hold then kiss my ass!
I want one example of a progressive play he has played with an advantage. or an example of how he knows its an advantage. Post up some numbers.
This question is to the world.
I just get the feeling that asshole is a formerly suspended member recreating himself.
He is pure nothing. Axel and me know that. That person has no deliberate charge,
George Carlin skit
Why would he be Rob Singer and tout playing slots? Isn't RS all about playing video poker? If he was RS I would think he would at least be explaining his system to a degree. This dose not seem like his style, but who knows.Quote: MoosetonI truly believe TK is Rob Singer. Here's a funny George Carlin skit I'm reminded of.
George Carlin skit
I have not hear that phrase I assume it means he no real knowable plan of attackQuote: mickeycrimmdeliberate charge,
If mickeycrimm frequently gets belligerent over other's opinions and comments on what they do, then mickey you're right and have a good night's sleep.
WOW i wish you would have just lead with thatQuote: tournamentkingAxel, I am probably not what you believe a slot AP is. There's numbers involved,
but what I do doesn't have to do with meter rates or possible hold percentages. .
BTW i consider AP anything where you have a mathematical edge over the casino. I don't care how you do it. If you have some system where you can predict an event happening because of some flaw in the system I would accept that as an AP. You should still be able to prove the advantage with percentages.
Example: I play a slot machine called "Canadian coo coo's nest" Top line jackpot symbols are 3 matching want-a-be rockstar's with a coo coo bird on his shoulder. When the progressive meter gets above 10k I play because I have never seen it go past 11k. I'm not 100% sure what the hold on the machine is. I assume its 10%. I play for 1hr at most before it hits. I spin 1200 spins per hr at $3 a spin, I lose on average $360. if i don't hit it. I have 1 machine out of 10, so I hit it one out of ten times I make approximately $640 each time I play.
The problem is you really have tried to lead us to believe you play normal progressive slots because they are at a high number. You used an example of a 82k hit at a Las Vegas casino.
What state or province do you play in? Do you know what class of machine you are playing?
Quote: AxelWolfIC...What state or province do you play in? Do you know what class of machine you are playing?
I frequent Nevada casinos but the one I'm talking about here is in Calif. They're Class III
WOW i wish you would have just lead with thatQuote: tournamentkingAxel, I've said several times that because of my way of going after slot progressives, I am probably not what you believe a slot AP is. There's numbers involved,
but what I do doesn't have to do with meter rates or possible hold percentages.
BTW i consider AP anything where you have a mathematical edge over the casino. I don't care how you do it. If you have some system where you can predict an event happening because of some flaw in the system I would accept that as an AP. You should still be able to prove the advantage with percentages.
Example: I play a slot machine called "Canadian coo coo's nest" Top line jackpot symbols are 3 matching want-a-be rockstar's with a coo coo bird on his shoulder. When the progressive meter gets above 10k I play because I have never seen it go past 11k. I'm not 100% sure what the hold on the machine is. I assume its 10%. I play for 1hr at most before it hits. I spin 1200 spins per hr at $3 a spin, I lose on average $360. if i don't hit it. I have 1 machine out of 10, so I hit it one out of ten times I make approximately $640 each time I play.
The problem is you really have tried to lead us to believe you play normal progressive slots because they are at a high number. You used an example of a 82k hit at a Las Vegas casino.
What state or province do you play in? Do you know what class of machine you are playing?
BTW I'm a professional Football Player.Quote: tournamentking, I am probably not what you believe a slot AP is. There's numbers involved, but what I do doesn't have to do with meter rates or possible hold percentages. So if you want to keep saying that I'm not a true slots ap in your eyes, that's ok and I don't argue that. I've done well, not great, with my method and I enjoy the challenge and the studying that goes along with it
If mickeycrimm frequently gets belligerent over other's opinions and comments on what they do, then mickey you're right and have a good night's sleep.
Oh and, I am probably not what you believe a Football player is, There's Balls involved, but what i do doesn't have to do with defense, kicking ,catching, throwing or possible scoring, its more of a FANTASY football thing. So if you want to keep saying that I'm not a true Football player in your eyes, that's ok and I don't argue that. I've done well, not great, with my method and I enjoy the challenge and the studying that goes along with it
Quote: AxelTheFootBallking♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
I'm understanding where our issue has been. Your example is close to what I do..watch, wait, and play at an expected optimal time and on an "optimal" machine if it's in a bank. I do a calculated guess on how high I let the progressive get before playing it. Sometimes I wait too long though, go back the next night, and it's over. The Bellagio win was a bank of $10 machines that hit at $68k and $56k the two times prior. I spent a lot of time preparing but the investment was up there too. Correct, the hold % is not really known, esp. if the machines are in a bank.
IC... Then we must remove your current occupation tittle form AP to AG: Advantage Guesser.Quote: tournamentkingI think you posted when I identified this particular play is in Calif., but more of my play is in Nv.
I'm understanding where our issue has been. Your example is close to what I do..watch, wait, and play at an expected optimal time and on an "optimal" machine if it's in a bank. I do a calculated guess on how high I let the progressive get before playing it. Sometimes I wait too long though, go back the next night, and it's over. The Bellagio win was a bank of $10 machines that hit at $68k and $56k the two times prior. I spent a lot of time preparing but the investment was up there too. Correct, the hold % is not really known, esp. if the machines are in a bank.
It seems your just guessing you have an advantage. So we must just call you a, G ........... Yo wut up G
This is what I was afraid of.Quote: tournamentkingI think you posted when I identified this particular play is in Calif., but more of my play is in Nv.
I'm understanding where our issue has been. Your example is close to what I do..watch, wait, and play at an expected optimal time
My example was the most absurd thing I could think of. Yet I seemed to guess this was what you were doing. What you are doing is total crap and it wont or dose not work.
