bobbartop
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smoothgrhMission146
May 17th, 2019 at 1:45:55 PM permalink
Played at Table Mountain in Fresno recently. I'm sure I've seen it mentioned before on this forum so someone else has been there. This is a short, two-part trip report.

First thing was the 5-cent progressive bank. Older machines, uprights, but not too bad. If you've been there you probably know them. 5-cents, 20 coins max. Three games on them. Pretty low base game paytables.

The best, and I was guessing, but I guessed right, was 7-5 JoB. The other two are about the same, 10-8 Bonus Poker and 15-10 Deuces. Anyway, I've never had a reason to play these but I did check the 1% meter just to know. So I was just walking by them, naturally they reset at $800, but today they were over $3200. I was impressed. It's been awhile since I played a progressive so high, relatively speaking, but I thought I could wing it. I chose the JoB. Safe pick, and I was correct when I got home and checked. Pencilled out to over 103%. I decided to play it like 9-6 JoB as far as the full house and flush pays were concerned, I figured that would be an unnecessary distraction. Broke all high pairs for 3-card royal, drew to all 2-card royals when appropriate, even JT-suited out of a hand like AKJT3. That was pretty much it, and I was on the money when I checked at home, of course I missed little things like keeping the lone Jack from AJ. Big deal. So I don't know how long it took to build, but it took someone 45 minutes to hit it when I was playing. Funny thing is, no one but me and the winner, left. Turns out these people were not even interested in this "huge" jackpot, they kept playing at reset. Many were short-coining. I saw one guy betting a nickel a hand. So I left and went to my $1 JoB machine, and my brain was all messed up. Took me several minutes to get my thinking right.

The second part of this story is exciting news. I was talking to a staff member and I mentioned it's too bad they don't have a hotel. He surprised me and told me that they are already working on it across the street. That was the first I heard about it, but there's more, Not only are they going to build a hotel, but they're going to move the whole enchilada and build an entirely new casino. That's big news, especially for Fresno. The employee guessed it would be ready in 2021. Looking forward to it.

Table Mountain is a pretty good place, in my opinion. And they have a lot of business. The place is always packed. They've always treated me good. I wish them well.

The End
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PokerGrinder
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May 17th, 2019 at 5:45:08 PM permalink
I made a short visit there last week. I canít say I remember much about the place.
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FCBLComish
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May 17th, 2019 at 9:31:46 PM permalink
I worked there for 10 years. The rumor is true, they will be building an entirely new place just up the road.
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bobbartop
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PokerGrinder
May 18th, 2019 at 3:56:47 PM permalink
Quote: PokerGrinder

I made a short visit there last week. I canít say I remember much about the place.




Let me take a wild guess. Stopping by to collect a poker chip?
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bobbartop
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May 18th, 2019 at 4:04:39 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

I worked there for 10 years. The rumor is true, they will be building an entirely new place just up the road.




I thought it might have been you who mentioned it before. They've made some changes recently. All the video poker was moved into the room right to the left of the entrance. There's three machines in the high limit room, same machines and denoms as the rest, and then there's a few machines in the new non-smoking room. Also, I think it was around Christmas, they cut the points down on video poker, every machine has that white sticker that says "$2 coin-in for one point". And of course, they have EVERY new slot you can imagine. One thing I can say for Table is that they have MANY Spanish 21 tables, way more than anyone else. I like the place.
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FCBLComish
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May 18th, 2019 at 4:18:30 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I thought it might have been you who mentioned it before. They've made some changes recently. All the video poker was moved into the room right to the left of the entrance. There's three machines in the high limit room, same machines and denoms as the rest, and then there's a few machines in the new non-smoking room. Also, I think it was around Christmas, they cut the points down on video poker, every machine has that white sticker that says "$2 coin-in for one point". And of course, they have EVERY new slot you can imagine. One thing I can say for Table is that they have MANY Spanish 21 tables, way more than anyone else. I like the place.




40 tables and 10 of them are Spanish 21. The players cannot get enough of it. I don't think there are 10 Spanish 21 tables in all of Nevada.

I enjoyed my 10 years there.
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Ayecarumba
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May 18th, 2019 at 4:35:57 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

40 tables and 10 of them are Spanish 21. The players cannot get enough of it. I don't think there are 10 Spanish 21 tables in all of Nevada.

I enjoyed my 10 years there.


Anyone know why they have so many Spanish 21 tables? Did they get a bulk discount? Is it player demand, or the games manager paying off a debt?
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FCBLComish
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May 18th, 2019 at 4:38:34 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Anyone know why they have so many Spanish 21 tables? Did they get a bulk discount? Is it player demand, or the games manager paying off a debt?



I know exactly why. There is enough demand for that many tables. The players in that area love that game. They are getting a pretty good deal on the game, but that is not the only reason.

Players there will bet $25 on the hand, and $200 each on the Match the Dealer (up and down). It is really incredible. Nowhere else have I seen players like this.
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bobbartop
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May 18th, 2019 at 5:25:39 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

I know exactly why. There is enough demand for that many tables. The players in that area love that game. They are getting a pretty good deal on the game, but that is not the only reason.

Players there will bet $25 on the hand, and $200 each on the Match the Dealer (up and down). It is really incredible. Nowhere else have I seen players like this.




The other three casinos in the area have two tables each of Spanish 21. I can understand the attraction, I think it is a great game. I could care less about regular blackjack, I'm a video poker player. But one night at Chukchansi I noticed the Spanish 21 game going and it caught my attention. I watched for awhile and asked the Floor for a rules pamphlet. I fell in love with the game. (btw, they do 8 decks at Chukchansi) With regular blackjack a player can learn Basic in no time. Not so with S21, it's complicated. A lot of fun, too.

I've been to Black Oak, they like the game up there also. Frankly, I think most of the large Indian casinos in California spread S21.

I've seen a couple places that run a promo called Ace-King Bingo. They have a board in the pit with 16 squares. If you're dealt an AK, and no one has that square yet, you get $25. If you complete two lines with it, it's $50. If you get a corner square completing three lines, you get $100. The Blackout is $1000, cash. Table minimum is usually $10, definitely a good low-roller promo.
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PokerGrinder
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bobbartop
May 18th, 2019 at 5:54:54 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Let me take a wild guess. Stopping by to collect a poker chip?


Am I that obvious lol?
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FCBLComish
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May 18th, 2019 at 6:50:09 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop


I've seen a couple places that run a promo called Ace-King Bingo. They have a board in the pit with 16 squares. If you're dealt an AK, and no one has that square yet, you get $25. If you complete two lines with it, it's $50. If you get a corner square completing three lines, you get $100. The Blackout is $1000, cash. Table minimum is usually $10, definitely a good low-roller promo.



I actually like this promo. I may "borrow" it.
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bobbartop
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May 18th, 2019 at 8:14:03 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

I actually like this promo. I may "borrow" it.




Do you still work? Why did I get the impression that you are retired and living the good life just gambling and eating buffets in Vegas? :-)

One casino I know runs this in the morning for two hours, I figured just to get the blood running, it's dead at 8:00 a.m.. They only do it Mon thru Thurs. But then they repeat at 2:00 p.m. and this gets much more interest. On Thursday there is a mandatory blackout, I mean, they don't stop until it's cracked. A thousand bux, cash. You can't get a seat at 3:00 p.m., no way. I'm sure you know the casino, since you used to live in the "neighborhood".
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Ayecarumba
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May 20th, 2019 at 12:14:26 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

...They have a board in the pit with 16 squares. If you're dealt an AK, and no one has that square yet, you get $25...



Iím lost on how the squares are assigned. Do they correspond to the suits of the AK in the combo?
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May 20th, 2019 at 2:48:38 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Iím lost on how the squares are assigned. Do they correspond to the suits of the AK in the combo?



I guess I kind of assumed it. Each suit ace with a particular king would be 4 combos. 4 different kings would make 16. That seemed to be what he was describing.

So, the first combo would be worth $25. Fill a row or a column or diagonal and you get a blingo for morethan that. Fill both at the same time, double blingo. Fill one towards the end, make a triple blingo (not a sure thing, but seems likely there'd be at least one), get the last combo for the blackout, get a big prize.

Maybe it's only run for 2 hours a day and the board is reset each time, so the big prize doesn't always get awarded. I would think that would be a very fun promotion.
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FCBLComish
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May 20th, 2019 at 11:18:34 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Do you still work? Why did I get the impression that you are retired and living the good life just gambling and eating buffets in Vegas? :-)

One casino I know runs this in the morning for two hours, I figured just to get the blood running, it's dead at 8:00 a.m.. They only do it Mon thru Thurs. But then they repeat at 2:00 p.m. and this gets much more interest. On Thursday there is a mandatory blackout, I mean, they don't stop until it's cracked. A thousand bux, cash. You can't get a seat at 3:00 p.m., no way. I'm sure you know the casino, since you used to live in the "neighborhood".



Oh, I am still working, for at least the next 20 years or so. I am not sure which casino you are referring to. I have been gone from the Fresno area for almost 2 years now. I should check some of their websites.
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Ayecarumba
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May 20th, 2019 at 11:20:50 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I guess I kind of assumed it. Each suit ace with a particular king would be 4 combos. 4 different kings would make 16. That seemed to be what he was describing.

So, the first combo would be worth $25. Fill a row or a column or diagonal and you get a blingo for morethan that. Fill both at the same time, double blingo. Fill one towards the end, make a triple blingo (not a sure thing, but seems likely there'd be at least one), get the last combo for the blackout, get a big prize.

Maybe it's only run for 2 hours a day and the board is reset each time, so the big prize doesn't always get awarded. I would think that would be a very fun promotion.


The way it was described, I was thinking any AK would get you a bingo ball, and if it matched the card, you would win.
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bobbartop
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May 20th, 2019 at 5:45:18 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

Oh, I am still working, for at least the next 20 years or so. I am not sure which casino you are referring to. I have been gone from the Fresno area for almost 2 years now. I should check some of their websites.




Oh, you're still a young man. I have to stop making assumptions about people I can't see on the internet. Just because I'm an old man doesn't mean everyone is an old man.

Just to be clear on the promo in case I didn't explain it right, I double-checked this morning. First of all, Barbara has the idea figured out, which I would expect from her, she's sharp.

So there's four Aces at the top of the board and four kings down the side, making 16 squares. The promo is for all BJ tables, not just the Spanish 21. When a player gets AK, almost everyone at the table says "BINGO", lol, they're waiting for it. The dealer will yell to the Floor, "Spade-Diamond", and the Floor will put a red round patch on the square that coincides with Ace of Spades and King of Diamonds. If that space has been taken already, she'll yell back, "No good, taken". If it's good, she'll say, "It's good, twenty-five dollars!"

So, I may have said this wrong earlier, but here's how the pay goes. Single square pays $25. If a line of four squares is completed with this hand, it is $50. If it completes TWO lines, it is $100. If it completes three lines, say it's the corner square and completes the top horizontal, the side vertical, and corner-to-corner diagonal, it's $150. After the first 2-hour session, they clear the board and start fresh for the next one. Here, they have another session at 2:00 p.m. for the after lunch crowd. It also ends in two hours at 4 p.m. and they clear the board for tomorrow. UNLESS, they fill the Blackout, and someone gets $1000, cash. On Thursday, it is mandatory payout to someone for the blackout, they do not stop until it is hit.

Today I hit two Ace-King bingos, then played dollar video poker, almost immediately started off with a straight flush for $250, still lost my ass for the day, had a delicious lunch, went home, fun day. lol At least the rain has stopped, for now.
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May 24th, 2019 at 5:03:07 PM permalink
What are the Spanish 21 rules at Table Mountain? S21 or H21? Redouble allowed or NOT allowed? Does anyone know?
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May 25th, 2019 at 5:52:18 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

What are the Spanish 21 rules at Table Mountain? S21 or H21? Redouble allowed or NOT allowed? Does anyone know?



Here's Table Mountain, and I'm pretty sure this is almost uniform throughout the state.

6 deck. H17. Redouble up to three times. Split, including Aces, up to four hands.

Bonuses like 8-7-6 are good on split hands.

Surrender on anything, including against an Ace.

I dunno, am I forgetting anything? Let me know if there's something else. I know one casino that uses 8 decks, and that's Chukchansi, north of Fresno.

The side bets I don't play so I am not up on all the pays, but I'm pretty sure almost everyone does the Match the Dealer thing, up card and down card.

I don't know if I said it right about doubling. Let's put it this way. Bet $10, double to $20, re-double to $40, and one more time to $80. (and then the dealer spikes a 5 on the River for a seven-card 21, automatic) :-) Let me know if I forgot anything.
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FCBLComish
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May 25th, 2019 at 6:51:08 PM permalink
Bob pretty much has it down pat.

The match payouts are 4:1 and 9:1, so double unsuited match is 8:1 and double suited match is 18:1. 1 suited and 1 unsuited is 13:1.
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DogHand
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May 26th, 2019 at 1:38:58 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

Bob pretty much has it down pat.

The match payouts are 4:1 and 9:1, so double unsuited match is 8:1 and double suited match is 18:1. 1 suited and 1 unsuited is 13:1.



FCBLComish,

I'd play MTD up and down if the dealer would resolve both before I play my hand ;-)

Here's a serious question for you and the board: why do some casinos not allow others to play the sidebet on my hand? I was playing BJ recently on a table with both 21+3 and Top 3 sidebets. I wasn't playing them, but a lady standing behind me seemed interested in doing so. I told her, "Give me your chips and I'll bet them on the sidebet for you." She replied that the casino doesn't allow that. Any thoughts on why the casino would pass up "free money"?

Dog Hand
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May 26th, 2019 at 2:20:22 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Here's Table Mountain, and I'm pretty sure this is almost uniform throughout the state.

6 deck. H17. Redouble up to three times. Split, including Aces, up to four hands.

Bonuses like 8-7-6 are good on split hands.

Surrender on anything, including against an Ace.

I dunno, am I forgetting anything? Let me know if there's something else. I know one casino that uses 8 decks, and that's Chukchansi, north of Fresno.

The side bets I don't play so I am not up on all the pays, but I'm pretty sure almost everyone does the Match the Dealer thing, up card and down card.

I don't know if I said it right about doubling. Let's put it this way. Bet $10, double to $20, re-double to $40, and one more time to $80. (and then the dealer spikes a 5 on the River for a seven-card 21, automatic) :-) Let me know if I forgot anything.



Thanks bobbartop. Is surrender only available on the 1st two cards (after dealer peeks)? Indeed, with an A or T upcard, does dealer peek at the down card before players act? Sorry for the questions, but the variations are confusing.
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bobbartop
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May 26th, 2019 at 2:49:07 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Thanks bobbartop. Is surrender only available on the 1st two cards (after dealer peeks)? Indeed, with an A or T upcard, does dealer peek at the down card before players act? Sorry for the questions, but the variations are confusing.



Yes, dealer peeks at A or T before any action. But you can "forfeit" a hand beyond the first two cards. If you double on eleven, say against a 9 or higher, and catch bad, you can forfeit by surrendering half your bet. You can also forfeit after a re-double.
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May 27th, 2019 at 8:05:15 AM permalink
Quote: DogHand


Here's a serious question for you and the board: why do some casinos not allow others to play the sidebet on my hand? I was playing BJ recently on a table with both 21+3 and Top 3 sidebets. I wasn't playing them, but a lady standing behind me seemed interested in doing so. I told her, "Give me your chips and I'll bet them on the sidebet for you." She replied that the casino doesn't allow that. Any thoughts on why the casino would pass up "free money"?



Because some point the bettor wins 40:1 or 100:1 or whatever and gives the other player back their original stake saying "I was betting it for myself that time" or "LOL, sucks to be you." The casino can't do anything, most (all?) gaming laws say the bettor is the payee. Now the casino has a whole big issue to deal with and has to explain that this is why we don't bet on other people's sidebets.

I personally think the casino is correct to forgo the extra edge by denying this. It's just too much of a hassle to deal with. This is also why I don't like scavenger BJ plays.
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May 28th, 2019 at 5:48:06 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand

FCBLComish,

I'd play MTD up and down if the dealer would resolve both before I play my hand ;-)

Here's a serious question for you and the board: why do some casinos not allow others to play the sidebet on my hand? I was playing BJ recently on a table with both 21+3 and Top 3 sidebets. I wasn't playing them, but a lady standing behind me seemed interested in doing so. I told her, "Give me your chips and I'll bet them on the sidebet for you." She replied that the casino doesn't allow that. Any thoughts on why the casino would pass up "free money"?

Dog Hand



As far as I am concerned, the player whose spot it is can make the side bet, regardless of where the chips come from. However, if someone behind gave a player $5 to make a bet, and it won, we would pay the seated player, and we would not help the behind player to retrieve their winnings.

The reason not to let someone else place the bet is that would put us in a situation where we may pay the wrong player. If that ties up the game, then that is lost revenue and upset players. It is easier just to not allow it.

Sometimes there is also that pain in the butt person that is always asking to put their $1 bet on your hand, since they cannot afford to make the table minimum base bet. Not allowing them to do that is easier than having the player tell them to take a hike. We want to cater to the real players.
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DogHand
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May 28th, 2019 at 6:32:26 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

As far as I am concerned, the player whose spot it is can make the side bet, regardless of where the chips come from. However, if someone behind gave a player $5 to make a bet, and it won, we would pay the seated player, and we would not help the behind player to retrieve their winnings.

The reason not to let someone else place the bet is that would put us in a situation where we may pay the wrong player. If that ties up the game, then that is lost revenue and upset players. It is easier just to not allow it.

Sometimes there is also that pain in the butt person that is always asking to put their $1 bet on your hand, since they cannot afford to make the table minimum base bet. Not allowing them to do that is easier than having the player tell them to take a hike. We want to cater to the real players.



FCBLComish,

Thank you for sharing the "casino view" on this topic... I was hoping one of you guys would explain this to me. I generally play tables without these sidebets, so I have only infrequently had this situation.

Dog Hand
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May 29th, 2019 at 4:31:41 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand

FCBLComish,

Thank you for sharing the "casino view" on this topic... I was hoping one of you guys would explain this to me. I generally play tables without these sidebets, so I have only infrequently had this situation.

Dog Hand




Imagine as the player when some smelly homeless person is standing directly behind you and continually asking if he could bet $1 on your side bet. You will see why this policy is player-friendly.
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bobbartop
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May 29th, 2019 at 5:44:09 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

Imagine as the player when some smelly homeless person is standing directly behind you and continually asking if he could bet $1 on your side bet. You will see why this policy is player-friendly.




Oh sure, like there's any smelly homeless people in Fresno.
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May 29th, 2019 at 6:06:29 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop


The second part of this story is exciting news. I was talking to a staff member and I mentioned it's too bad they don't have a hotel. He surprised me and told me that they are already working on it across the street.




This is not exactly correct as I found out today. It is not to be across the street, but rather on the same side of the street and to the immediate west. Today they already had Catepillars working, leveling ground, and it looks like they've done a lot already. Someone said they're going to be blasting too, blasting away that hill that needs to disappear. Ready in early 2021, and the old place will be used for offices.

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FCBLComish
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May 30th, 2019 at 12:55:03 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

This is not exactly correct as I found out today. It is not to be across the street, but rather on the same side of the street and to the immediate west. Today they already had Catepillars working, leveling ground, and it looks like they've done a lot already. Someone said they're going to be blasting too, blasting away that hill that needs to disappear. Ready in early 2021, and the old place will be used for offices.



All this information is correct according to my sources there.
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June 5th, 2019 at 10:34:19 PM permalink
It seems the dealers in Spanish 21 are cutting off darn near two decks. I don't get it. First off, most of the players in this game are very unsophisticated and probably don't have a clue about the significance of penetration. So not only have they slowed up the game with the Match The Dealer thing, now on both cards, but they reshuffle with almost two decks remaining. That's so stupid. Deal more hands, make more money. Obviously they have been instructed to cut so shallow, it can't be coincidence. They're all doing it.
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February 8th, 2020 at 1:41:32 AM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish


All this information is correct according to my sources there.




Been a few months but I went to Table Mountain today and they're really making progress on the new building. Huge cranes tower into the sky, walls are being built, still at least a year away but they're gettin there. Looking forward to it. And I assume they will have a hotel. YAY!!!

Remember the blackjack game with the three different color lights that tell you what range the hole card is, I can't remember the name right now, Down Under 21 or something like that, I didn't see it today so I suspect they gave it a try at Table Mountain and have since removed it. I'm surprised, I thought it would catch on there. They still have more Spanish 21 than any other casino I've seen.

Just a note on the video keno, if anyone cares, I have to be the only idiot in the world who looks at Keno pay tables. I'm just weird like that. It's not like video poker where even the worst players at least have some clue about pay tables, but I think most Keno players if you mention pay tables it's like a deer in the headlights. Anyway, in the "Fresno area", this casino has the WORST pay tables of all five casinos in the area. (except maybe Mono Wind, which is very small and I have not been there for a long time). And they don't even differentiate with the high limit room, it's the same thing. In fact, I don't think anything is different in their high limit room. I play in it because I enjoy the seclusion. But it's odd that a big, major casino like Table Mountain doesn't offer these differences. The video poker now is all standardized, every machine has the same games. Dollar and up have their games, and 25-cent machines have theirs. But back to their video keno, it's all 92% or less, if anyone gives a darn. I'm just reporting.

It's still a nice place and is always crowded/popular, drawing from Fresno. Really excited about the new casino being built.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.

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