Which cheating is worse - dice influence, or counting BJ?

This is mainly for Dan, since I presume he thinks anyone who does either is immoral.

Which makes you a bigger cheater - Counting at Blackjack or setting the dice in craps?

Surprise: NEITHER is cheating.

I went with Setting The Dice. They actually believe that they are cheating even though it's a fantasy. Counters are using a skill to evaluate their reasonable expectation of winning.

Who outside the casino says its cheating.

Quote: FinsRule

This is mainly for Dan, since I presume he thinks anyone who does either is immoral.

He may think something is immoral, illegal and fattening ... but that doesn't mean it even exists. Dice Control does not exist.

Well, dice control and dice influencing may not exist, but the enforcement division of the Nevada Gaming Commission says its legal. they also say that card counting is legal but the casino doesn't have to let you play.

Next issue.

Cheating the casino or the player? (she asked innocently).

Is dice setting cheating?

No, because it doesn't work.

But if were objectively proven that a player could achieve an advantage by DI, you better believe it would be criminalized, or else we'd all roll dem bones from a cup.

A shooter should be a random number generator: period.

I agree with MrV. I voted neither because I don't think dice setting has any effect. If it worked then it would be cheating because the rules of the game assume random dice. Card counting is not cheating either because it is entirely within the rules. The casino could easily eliminate any possible advantage through rule or procedure change, such as using CSM.

It depends on what you know is allowed by the rules to be followed.
Many casinos don't mind dice setting if it doesn't slow the game down. Practically no one has the pinpoint skill to ever make it work.
Card counting is a 100% known rule infraction by those who do it, and this cannot be denied. The only use of camoflage is to not be seen or caught doing it while knowing full well it is an infraction.

Cheating is breaking the rules of a game, in order to get something of personal benefit that you wouldn't be able to obtain through legitimate play.
I now believe that most people are fundamentally dishonest to some degree, and it's the way many people simply are: tax cheating, fare-beating, breaking the rules to get or to take something undeserved for nothing, that good-faith behavior wouldn't get you.