FYI. AC Can Now Ban AP Players.

Since they've now regulated AC, the casinos are free to regulate themselves. This means they can now 86 you if they don't like your action.

Until we see another Ken Uston like case, APs should treat AC like they would treat play in LV.

Quote: Keyser

Since they've now regulated AC, the casinos are free to regulate themselves.

Is there a reference for this assertion or is it a surmise?

Quote: Keyser

Since they've now regulated AC, the casinos are free to regulate themselves. This means they can now 86 you if they don't like your action.

Until we see another Ken Uston like case, APs should treat AC like they would treat play in LV.

Wow! That's news to me. What about Uston v Resorts International Hotel, Inc? If this is true, maybe they won't half shoe and shuffle up anymore on their already lousy blackjack games.

Quote: SanchoPanza

Is there a reference for this assertion or is it a surmise?

I want to see the evidence, you're just making an assumption.

They can now ask you to stop playing any casino game since it is now at their discretion. Gaming is no longer required to be on the floor. If you want to talk with gaming, then you'll have to pick up the phone. Ken Uston's case is out the door!

Quote: Keyser

They can now ask you to stop playing any casino game.

Says who? Give us the link.

It simply is what it is.

Quote:

Says who? Give us the link.

Says me.

Quote: Keyser

It simply is what it is. Says me.

Seeing as how you can't even find an exclusion list, to touch base with reality, here is the official one. Is yours bigger and better or what?

Sancho,

Your link has nothing on it. By the way, don't confuse an exclusion list with a list of people that have been banned from specific casinos.

With regards to the recent changes in regulations: If you're in doubt, then feel free to call gaming control in AC.

Quote: Keyser

Your link has nothing on it. By the way, don't confuse an exclusion list with a list of people that have been banned from specific casinos.

You can't show where any casino in New Jersey has such a list. Too bad.

Quote:

With regards to the recent changes in regulations: If you're in doubt, then feel free to call gaming control in AC.

That material has been posted here in extensive detail, and nowhere there or in any other media in New Jersey has there been any mention about barring advantage players. The fact that you are unable to produce anything approaching a cite is clear evidence of that.
In the meantime, the decisions of the New Jersey courts is the rule of law that is in effect.

Quote: SanchoPonza

You can't show where any casino in New Jersey has such a list. Too bad.

Sancho,

Neither casinos in LV or AC publish a list of people that are banned from specific casinos for winning, etc. However, gaming control does have an exlcusion list of people that are not allowed in ANY casino within the state. Here's an example of a denied and excluded list. http://gaming.nv.gov/loep_main.htm
Again, I suspect that you are confusing an exclusion list with a list of people that a casino has banned. A banned list is not available to the public.

Quote: SanchoPanza

That material has been posted here in extensive detail, and nowhere there or in any other media in New Jersey has there been any mention about barring advantage players. The fact that you are unable to produce anything approaching a cite is clear evidence of that.
In the meantime, the decisions of the New Jersey courts is the rule of law that is in effect.

1. The law has changed.
2. I suspect that you do not live or gamble in the affected area and have not read on the recent changes in regulations.
3. If you believe otherwise, then feel free to make a phone call.

OK, I'll bite. Did you get banned again? Is that how you know?

As more and more people experience the new regulations, you will see more people coming out to complain.

Here's another person that has also experienced the change in regulations.

"Johnson says he's been banned at the Caesars and Harrah's casinos in Nevada and was turned down by Resorts and Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort in Atlantic City. And he says casinos no long offer him a 20 percent discount on his losses or shower him with other high-roller perks."

``I don't think they will let me play anymore,'' he said of the Atlantic City casinos. ``But it's not going to change my life. If I don't play blackjack, I'll just go to the horse races.''




The Caesars and Harrah's casinos to which he refers are in Nevada.

However, Resorts and Trump Taj Mahal Casinos are in Atlantic City! In the article he says that he was "turned down". You can read into that what you will, however, it doesn't change the fact that the casinos are now free to clamp down on the APs.

Here's the article: http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_times_news/bensalem-blackjack-player-wins-about-m-at-ac-casinos/article_2d5cff9c-f5b9-5d09-ae05-62724a0cfc81.html

Sancho,

Would you like to add any additional sarcastic remarks?

Quote: Keyser

``I don't think they will let me play anymore,'' he said of the Atlantic City casinos. `

C'mon, he 'thinks' he can't play anymore? Gimmee a break.

Did you get banned again, is that why you brought this up?

I really don't get how one can translate the story:

Quote: PhiillyBlurb

"But his run of good luck has caused some setbacks. Johnson says he's been banned at the Caesars and Harrah's casinos in Nevada and was turned down by Resorts and Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort in Atlantic City. And he says casinos no long offer him a 20 percent discount on his losses or shower him with other high-roller perks."

into some law that has changed. If the player is counting, the casino must use other countermeasures to take away the advantage (early shuffle, multiple decks, CSMs). The sentence said "turned down", not banned. "Turned down" could simply mean that the casino was unwilling to take his action, which would be fair given the experiences that other casinos had. The original AC Press article says "turned down", not "banned" which to me means a different thing.

Original story here.

If you read down, there is a quote:

Quote: article

Dennis Gomes, CEO of Resorts Casino Hotel, said his gaming hall refused Johnson an opportunity to play because "he wanted to bet very big."

.

It means that the casinos are now self regulating and that they are now free to turn people away, denying them the ability to play at the games if they so choose.

Like I said, if you don't believe this to be true, then make a phone call to the AC gaming control.

Back in February the Casino Control Commission transferred much of its responsibility to the Divistion of Gaming Enforcement (in NJ), the result of which 115 gaming inspectors (who were in the casinos 24/7) were let go. Most of their responsibility was to ensure that money was being counted properly and that revenue was being recorded properly. So yes, Keyser's right... they're no longer in the casino.

It doesn't mean that they can turn away an advantage player.

Quote: Keyser

then make a phone call to the AC gaming control.

Obviously you didn't do that or you would tell us what they said.

Quote:

It doesn't mean that they can turn away an advantage player.

Think again. They most certainly can.

Thinking and reading is exactly what I'm doing. I've read the gaming regulations as well. Nothing's changed. Any casino can turn down a bet due to its size. This same man is being invited back to the Tropicana (where he won $5M) to participate in a high roller tourney.

The casino can now deny you the freedom to play.

Quote: Keyser

The casino can now deny you the freedom to play.

Until you supply proof, thats just your opinion. I can find nothing
on this anywhere, you are the only one who knows, apparently.

If this were true, I would expect the internet to be buzzing and people screaming from the rooftops. The casinos would also be gloating because they just can't help themselves.

Perhaps this doesn't apply to blackjack???

Quote: SanchoPanza

Seeing as how you can't even find an exclusion list, to touch base with reality, here is the official one. Is yours bigger and better or what?

a link that works

I've seen that list. I'm not going to go through it again but those people are criminals and cheaters. I doubt that advantage players are on it.

Quote: Keyser

"Johnson says he's been banned at the Caesars and Harrah's casinos in Nevada and was turned down by Resorts and Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort in Atlantic City. And he says casinos no long offer him a 20 percent discount on his losses or shower him with other high-roller perks."

So he wasn't "banned." The casinos stopped giving him the 20 percent rebate, making it pretty stupid of him to bet $100,000 a hand. As posted here, if any of us got 20 percent rebates, we could end up big winners on games with small house advantages.

The fact of the matter is that you remain unable to come up with a single example of banning. In fact, you can't even find the pertinent regulations.

Nevada and New Jersey casinos are not in the business of losing money. With the casinos still struggling to recover from the economic recession, the last thing they need is a shark gambler to come along and win tens of millions of dollars playing blackjack.

That is exactly what happened for Dan Johnson. The forty-nine year old has been on an incredible ruin over the first few months of 2011, winning over $15.1 million in the first six months of the new year. That winning streak has put Johnson on the outs with several casinos.

In the old days, Las Vegas casinos were run by mobsters, and they would have ways of dealing with a gambler who took too much of their money. Today, however, things are much more calm, and casinos use more diplomatic ways of ridding themselves of gamblers who win too much.

Caesars and Harrah's in Nevada and the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City have banned the blackjack player from enjoying the game he loves at their casinos. No evidence has been revealed to show that Johnson won the money by cheating, but the casinos figured they would cut their losses nonetheless.

"This comes down to a few casinos who simply believe that this gambler is too good, and they are unwilling to take their chances with him anymore," said Gaming Analyst Steve Schwartz. "It may not be fair for Johnson, but there will be plenty of casinos that will welcome a high roller into their establishments. He should have no problem finding action if he wants it."

Atlantic City casinos, in particular, are not in a position to take million dollar hits. Pennsylvania has made a strong push to become the gambling capital of the East Coast in the past couple of years, and New Jersey casinos have not responded. Analysts believe that by the end of 2012, Pennsylvania casinos will have passed New Jersey casinos in overall gaming revenue.

Source: Casinogamblingweb.com - News added: 2011-05-25 at: 00:00:03
--------------------------------------

Now Sancho,

If you'd like to go ahead and call these casinos and explain to them how wrong they are for banning Dan Johnson, then by all means feel free to go for it. I have no doubt that they will listen to you, recognize the error of their ways, and will undoubtedly change their minds. I'm sure Dan would also love to have you as his advocate and would have complete confidence in your legal skills. However, perhaps you should read again the part where it specifically says that, "The Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City have banned the blackjack player from enjoying the game he loves at their casinos".

Yes, that's right, they have banned him and have stripped the love.

The facts are more of us are having similar experiences.

Quote: Keyser

However, perhaps you should read again the part where it specifically says that, "The Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City have banned the blackjack player from enjoying the game he loves at their casinos". Yes, that's right, they have banned him and have stripped the love.

That three-month-old article from a non-functioning Web site is not only outdated, it is wrong like so many others at that time, even those that stated Johnson was a counter. It would also help to have the correct name.
At any rate, Johnson gave an interview a month later in which said he was still playing blackjack at the casinos.
"High-roller's rebate deal leads to $15M blackjack win
By Mark Gruetze
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, June 17, 2011

Don Johnson was betting $100,000 a hand at the blackjack table, but he figured he really wasn't risking that much.
Turns out he was right.

From December to April, Johnson won $4.23 million from Caesars Atlantic City and a little more than $4 million from Borgata, also in Atlantic City. Then he won $5.8 million in a 12-hour session at Atlantic City's Tropicana in what reportedly was a record loss for that casino. Even with some losing sessions scattered among the big scores, he netted millions.

Johnson, 49, of Bucks County told Player's Advantage this week that he negotiated the playing rules for his sessions before putting money on the table. One was that he could bet up to $100,000 a hand if he bought in for at least $1 million.

He declined to specify the rest of the rules, other than the dealer used a six-deck shoe and had to stand on soft 17 (Ace-6). By Johnson's calculation, the rules reduced the house edge to 0.253 percent for a player following basic strategy perfectly.
That's even less than the 0.339 percent house edge for a six-deck game with Pennsylvania's player-friendly rules.

For Johnson, the clincher was an agreement that the casino would reimburse him for 20 percent of his losses if they totaled at least $500,000. "You'd never lose the million," he said. "If you got to minus-five hands (an overall loss of $500,000) ... you would stop and take your 20 percent discount. You'd only owe them $400,000.

"It's like going to the horse races and betting an even-money shot and only having to spend 80 cents on the dollar to get that shot," said Johnson, chief executive officer of Heritage Development LLC, a company that offers computer-assisted wagering in horse-racing. "It's a huge edge. I just think somebody (at the casinos) missed the math when they did the numbers on it."

Johnson said he didn't bother with card-counting -- a legal maneuver in which a player mentally tracks the ratio of high-value to low-value cards as they are played to determine when to raise or lower his bet.

"The discount gives you a bigger edge," he said. "Why waste your time counting?" . . .

Johnson said he still plays blackjack, although some casinos have stopped offering him the rebate. It's a business decision. While he might lose $500,000 — actually, $400,000 after the rebate — he might get lucky again and beat the house out of millions. "They said it's just not a piece of business that's attractive enough," Johnson said.

Johnson said the comps he could get as a high roller don't matter all that much. "To be honest, what can they give you — a suite? Big deal," he said. "If they give me the right game and the right discount, they can give me an umbrella on the beach."

As a matter of fact, the president of the Trop said he was inviting back a similar player (in another post here from two months ago):
Gambler wins $5.3M at Tropicana in Atlantic City
Published: Tuesday, June 07, 2011, 7:48 AM Updated: Tuesday, June 07, 2011, 7:49 AM
The Associated Press o a gambler weeks after another high roller won $5.8 million at the same casino.

Tropicana Casino and Resort CEO Tony Rodio told The Press of Atlantic City the unidentified gambler won most of the cash during a six-hour streak playing craps Wednesday. He also won at blackjack and mini-baccarat. Rodio says the player left a $150,000-plus tip, which was divided up among the Tropicana table games dealers.

Rodio declined to name the player. However, Rodio says it was not Don Johnson. The Bensalem, Pa., resident won nearly $6 million during a hot streak at the Trop in March and April. Rodio told the newspaper Johnson and the winning craps player will be invited back for more high-stakes gambling.

Quote:

The facts are more of us are having similar experiences.

If you have experienced or know of any barring, it would the congenial way to post it here and not play cat-and-mouse games.

Quote: SanchoPanza

That three-month-old article from a non-functioning Web site is not only outdated

You're joking right? Why don't you come up with something better than basically saying, "Nuh Huh!"

On February 1, 2011, Governor Chris Christie signed into law Bill S-12 which dramatically changes casino regulations in Atlantic City since casino gambling was approved in 1978. This new law transfers regulatory power over the casinos from the Casino Control Commission to the Division of Gaming Enforcement and eliminates many regulations.

While the Tropicana may be inviting Don Johnson back, the Taj has banned him.
My experience backs up his claims of having been banned, as do various news articles.


In short, you'll need to call gaming on Monday if you're still in doubt.

Quote: Keyser

You're joking right? Why don't you come up with something better than basically saying, "Nuh Huh!"

Writes a poster whose answer to a request for real information in this thread, was "Says me."

Quote:

On February 1, 2011, Governor Chris Christie signed into law Bill S-12 which dramatically changes casino regulations in Atlantic City since casino gambling was approved in 1978. This new law transfers regulatory power over the casinos from the Casino Control Commission to the Division of Gaming Enforcement and eliminates many regulations.[/a]
The changes have absolutely nothing to do with barrings except to transfer jurisdiction over cheaters and self-excludeds.

Quote:

While the Tropicana may be inviting Don Johnson back, the Taj has banned him.

Your own cite says the Taj rejected his offer. That means that they realized the terms were too unfavorable for them.

Quote:

My experience backs up his claims of having been banned, as do various news articles.

You haven't posted one or even excerpts from one retrievable item that addresses barring or banning.

Quote:

In short, you'll need to call gaming on Monday if you're still in doubt.

In short, you say your experience backs up Johnson's nonexistent claims of being banned. Why won't you say what your experience has been?

For people who interested in dealing with reality and not suppositions, presumptions and just plain old erroneous statements, here are two pieces dealing with card counting:

This is proof that the doofus who was running the Trop at the time for Icahn didn't understand the first thing about the game and what was happening:
Blackjack Card Counting Teams Rape Atlantic City Casinos for Millions
May 12, 2011
Written by: Nick Meisher
card counting teams hit Atlantic City
In an epic attack upon the beleaguered Atlantic City casinos, multiple blackjack card counting teams reaped millions this April from Borgata and Tropicana casinos.

In April of 2011, a number of professional blackjack teams using the latest card counting systems descended upon Atlantic City, known as the jewel of New Jersey, and came away with millions from Tropicana and Borgata casino blackjack tables.

Considering past earning, during the month of April, a total of 9-11 million was lost at the Borgata, and 7-9 million at the Tropicana only at the blackjack tables.

The normal monthly profit from an Atlantic City casino blackjack card game tables is around 11%-16% of the total amount bet. Tropicana Casino & Hotel lost $1.87 million in April on their blackjack games while Borgata made less than a million from blackjack on a total of $75 million bet (1.2% profit).

In comparison, Caesars, which the card counters avoided, made a $7.6 million profit from blackjack gambling during the same time frame.

Card counting, as has been described in yesterday’s BlackjackChamp article – Professional Casino Blackjack Card Counting Training Manual: Part 1 – requires the nerves of steel, Academy Award worthy acting ability, and the memory of an elephant.

When a group of such professional blackjack players work as a single unit, and with a large enough bankroll, the casinos stand very little chance of coming out on top.

The CEO of Tropicana Casino, Mr. Mark Giannantonio, revealed that a single player, ‘the head’, raped the blackjack table for 6 million dollars during a single session which accounted for 60% of the monthly loss. The CEO would not identify the player.

The NJ Casino Control Commission spokesman, Mr. Daniel Heneghan, was flabbergasted to explain Tropicana’s loses and said that since 1978, when casino gambling became legal, there has never been such a loss in the history of the state. “It’s extraordinarily unusual for a casino to lose money at the game of blackjack in a particular month,” the spokesman commented, unwilling to speculate about the root causes.

The University of Houston’s Director of Gaming and Education, Mr. Jim Wortman, was a little more blunt – “A casino can have a losing day, but it’s maybe once or twice a year. I’m looking at other (factors) if the percentage goes down for a month.”

“I just want to make sure the (people winning big) are not cheating or our dealers are that bad. Generally, I would have more eyes on this guy than if he’s sitting there naked,” added Director Wortman.

Professor William Eadington of the University of Nevada saw a connection between the monthly blackjack results at Tropicana and Borgata – “The fact (Borgata) only made $1 million makes you think they had more players like the … Tropicana.”-- http://www.blackjackchamp.com/casino-news/11530-blackjack-card-counting-teams-rape-atlantic-city-casinos-for-millions/
----
The casinos' options are codified in state law:
19:47-2.5 (h)(1)
"1. The casino licensee may determine after each round of play that the cards should be reshuffled;"

Here is a key decision that affected counting:
(This syllabus is not part of the opinion of the Court. It has been prepared by the Office of the Clerk for the convenience of the reader. It has been neither reviewed nor approved by the Supreme Court. Please note that, in the interests of brevity, portions of any opinion may not have been summarized).
Campione v. Adamar of New Jersey, Inc. (A-125/126/160-97)
Argued March 16, 1998 -- Decided July 22, 1998
POLLOCK, J., writing for a unanimous Court.

This appeal presents several issues. The first is whether the Casino Control Commission (CCC) has exclusive jurisdiction over claims by patrons against casinos for discrimination and breach of contract. A related issue is whether patrons may maintain such claims as common-law causes of action. The final issue questions the award of damages on the malicious prosecution claim.

Campione was a blackjack player and professional card counter who frequented casinos in Atlantic City. Defendants are Adamar of New Jersey, which operates the TropWorld Casino, and various employees of TropWorld.

Campione alleges that on two occasions, TropWorld allowed other blackjack players, but not him, to play multiple hands and to increase their bets. On the second occasion, Campione became involved in a dispute with TropWorld personnel and refused to remove his hands from his cards and leave the game as directed. Campione was arrested, and an employee signed a complaint in municipal court charging Campione with disorderly conduct and defiant trespass. In municipal court, Campione was acquitted of the criminal charges.

Campione filed this action in the Law Division seeking both compensatory and punitive damages, alleging malicious prosecution, discrimination, and breach of contract. TropWorld answered and moved for summary judgment, arguing that the CCC regulations authorize different treatment of card counters; that the CCC had exclusive jurisdiction over claims concerning the application of CCC regulations; and that no cause of action existed for damages for a violation of CCC regulations. The trial court denied the motion, stating, among other things, that it is discriminatory to treat card counters differently from other patrons at the same table.

The jury returned a verdict in Campione's favor on the discrimination and malicious prosecution claims, awarding over $500,000 in compensatory damages and over $1 million in punitive damages.

The Appellate Division reversed the judgment and remanded to the Law Division. It expressed grave reservations about the Law Division's ruling that a casino must treat card counters and other patrons equally, noting that the CCC had adopted regulations that specifically authorize some disparate treatment. The Appellate Division also concluded that the CCC had exclusive jurisdiction regarding the application and interpretation of the rules of the games, and that the Law Division therefore should not have entertained Campione's complaint. Finally, the Appellate Division held that the CCC had the power to order a casino to make restitution to a patron and gave Campione 60 days to submit his complaints to the CCC.

The Supreme Court granted Campione's petition for certification. It also granted motions of the CCC and the Division of Gaming Enforcement (DGE) to intervene and granted their petitions for certification.

HELD: The CCC has primary jurisdiction to resolve issues concerning the interpretation of the Casino Control Act and the CCC's regulations. A casino patron does not have a private cause of action under the Act or the CCC's regulations where no such cause of action existed at common law. The errors in the jury instructions require reversal of the damage award on the malicious prosecution claim.

1. The CCC is responsible for promulgating regulations controlling the operation of authorized games. It is also authorized to adjudicate regulatory violations. Initial complaints are filed with the CCC, which refers them to the DGE for prosecution if it finds evidence of a violation. (pp. 12-15)

2. The CCC has adopted regulations authorizing casinos to take specific countermeasures against card counters. In addition, casinos have made use of other regulations that were not intended to be used as countermeasures, but which the CCC has impliedly permitted by approving the casinos' internal controls. (pp. 15-18)

3. The CCC has primary jurisdiction to resolve issues concerning the interpretation of the Act and its regulations. The Legislature has not, however, granted the CCC jurisdiction over a patron's common law claims. Nor did it intend that the CCC be a court of claims for actions arising under the Act. The CCC is limited in such proceedings to requiring restitution and imposing administrative sanctions. If the CCC summarily rejects a patron's complaint, the patron does not have the right to request a hearing before the CCC. (pp. 18-23)

4. The place for patrons to file private claims for damages is in the Superior Court. To the extent that the resolution of a patron's claim depends on an interpretation of the Act or administrative regulations, those questions should be referred to the CCC for resolution. (pp. 23-25)

5. There is no private right of action by a patron against a casino for money damages unless the claim has a basis in the common law. Campione's claim of discriminatory treatment does have a common-law basis. Even without statutory or regulatory support, a casino has a common-law duty to treat patrons fairly. Remaining is the issue whether the CCC permits casinos to discriminate among patrons in the manner alleged by Campione. On remand, the Law Division should refer that question to the CCC so that it may interpret its own regulations. (pp. 25-27)

6. The trial court's instructions on the discrimination claim in effect told the jury that defendants had been guilty of invidious discrimination. This instruction also had the capacity to prejudice defendants with regard to the malicious prosecution claim. In addition, the malicious prosecution charge failed to relate the law to the facts of the case, many of which were in dispute. (pp. 27-32)

The judgment of the Appellate Division is AFFIRMED as MODIFIED.

CHIEF JUSTICE PORITZ and JUSTICES HANDLER, O'HERN, GARIBALDI, STEIN and COLEMAN join in JUSTICE POLLOCK's opinion.

Still can't find a shred of evidence anywhere that anything has
changed in AC. Nothing, zip, nada.

Sancho,

Where's your proof that the news articles and Don Johnson are both wrong about the banning claims? Please provide some evidence other than basically just saying nuh huh.

Quote: odiousgambit

a link that works

Wow; New Jersey actually excludes people based on where they got their money from before they came in and played with it?

Quote: New Jersey Exclusion List

Respondent has made cash buy-ins in Atlantic City casinos in excess of $450,000 since 1987, including cash buy-ins in excess $200,000 prior to his reaching the legal age to engage in gaming in Atlantic City casinos by providing a false date of birth to several casinos. Respondent has no known legitimate source of income which would account for the amount of cash buy-ins which he has made and on at least one occasion, money with which the Respondent and an associate attempted to make a cash buy-in was found by a drug-sniffing dog to be tainted money.

I mean, I get that he did some gambling before he was of age, but he was twenty-four when they excluded him, and had bought in for at least a quarter of a million dollars since becoming of legal age. The only real complaint against him seems to be how he makes his money before he enters the casino. I figured it was all green.

Quote: SanchoPanza

For people who interested in dealing with reality and not suppositions, presumptions and just plain old erroneous statements, here are two pieces dealing with card counting:

This is proof that the doofus who was running the Trop at the time for Icahn didn't understand the first thing about the game and what was happening:
Blackjack Card Counting Teams Rape Atlantic City Casinos for Millions
May 12, 2011
Written by: Nick Meisher
card counting teams hit Atlantic City
In an epic attack upon the beleaguered Atlantic City casinos, multiple blackjack card counting teams reaped millions this April from Borgata and Tropicana casinos.

In April of 2011, a number of professional blackjack teams using the latest card counting systems descended upon Atlantic City, known as the jewel of New Jersey, and came away with millions from Tropicana and Borgata casino blackjack tables.

Considering past earning, during the month of April, a total of 9-11 million was lost at the Borgata, and 7-9 million at the Tropicana only at the blackjack tables.

The normal monthly profit from an Atlantic City casino blackjack card game tables is around 11%-16% of the total amount bet. Tropicana Casino & Hotel lost $1.87 million in April on their blackjack games while Borgata made less than a million from blackjack on a total of $75 million bet (1.2% profit). etc etc etc

I object! I lived in NJ for many years. AC is not known as the jewel of anything.

According to the NYPost article, Johnson wasn't banned at all. He just isn't getting the loss rebate anymore.

Quote: Wizard (from the article)

"A smart player could gain an advantage with even a 10 percent rebate in blackjack. It's just a mathematical fact that [20 percent] was very generous and very foolish," Shackleford said.

Later on in that article, someone else even says the Trop invited him back:

Quote:

Johnson is adamant that he didn't count cards, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a system.
"He probably didn't count cards, because the Tropicana has invited him back," said Leonard Benson, a gaming consultant in Las Vegas.

So I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. Nothing appears to have changed from a legal standpoint. Is there some reason to believe that Uston v Resorts and Campione v Adamar are no longer precedential case law?

Quote:

So I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. Nothing appears to have changed from a legal standpoint. Is there some reason to believe that Uston v Resorts and Campione v Adamar are no longer precedential case law?

Yes, it has changed thanks to deregulation.

Johnson is banned from the Taj and Resorts, but the Tropicana is allowing him to play.

Quote: Keyser

Where's your proof that the news articles and Don Johnson are both wrong about the banning claims? Please provide some evidence other than basically just saying nuh huh.

You haven't shown one news article or Johnson saying he was banned in Atlantic City. The first quotation is from a posting of yours here that was a quotation but never bothered to give the citation:

"Johnson says he's been banned at the Caesars and Harrah's casinos in Nevada and was turned down by Resorts and Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort in Atlantic City. And he says casinos no long offer him a 20 percent discount on his losses or shower him with other high-roller perks."

This one is from the Pittsburgh paper:

"Johnson said he still plays blackjack, although some casinos have stopped offering him the rebate. It's a business decision. While he might lose $500,000 — actually, $400,000 after the rebate — he might get lucky again and beat the house out of millions. "They said it's just not a piece of business that's attractive enough," Johnson said."

Have you come up yet with any that say he was or has been banned or barred in Atlantic City?

Quote: Keyser

Yes, it has changed thanks to deregulation.

Johnson is banned from the Taj and Resorts, but the Tropicana is allowing him to play.

Are you suggesting that Johnson can't get a $25 bet down at the Taj? There's a huge difference between not being allowed to bet $100k/hand and being banned for card counting. Where did you read that Johnson was barred as a card counter?

Also, NJ S-12 isn't about deregulation at all. It's about making regulation more efficient by eliminating redundancies in oversight. Nothing in S-12 changes the principles of Uston v Resorts (that private property owners in a heavily-regulated industry do not have a common-law right to arbitrarily exclude members of the public). From the Court in Uston: "Absent a valid contrary rule by the Commission, Uston possesses the usual right of reasonable access to Resorts International's blackjack tables."

I fear the conclusion that "casinos can now ban advantage players" is mistaken.

Quote: SanchoPanza

Have you come up yet with any that say he was or has been banned or barred in Atlantic City?

Here we go, again. Please read it carefully this time.
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Nevada and New Jersey casinos are not in the business of losing money. With the casinos still struggling to recover from the economic recession, the last thing they need is a shark gambler to come along and win tens of millions of dollars playing blackjack.

That is exactly what happened for Dan Johnson. The forty-nine year old has been on an incredible ruin over the first few months of 2011, winning over $15.1 million in the first six months of the new year. That winning streak has put Johnson on the outs with several casinos.

In the old days, Las Vegas casinos were run by mobsters, and they would have ways of dealing with a gambler who took too much of their money. Today, however, things are much more calm, and casinos use more diplomatic ways of ridding themselves of gamblers who win too much.

Caesars and Harrah's in Nevada and the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City have banned the blackjack player from enjoying the game he loves at their casinos. No evidence has been revealed to show that Johnson won the money by cheating, but the casinos figured they would cut their losses nonetheless.

"This comes down to a few casinos who simply believe that this gambler is too good, and they are unwilling to take their chances with him anymore," said Gaming Analyst Steve Schwartz. "It may not be fair for Johnson, but there will be plenty of casinos that will welcome a high roller into their establishments. He should have no problem finding action if he wants it."

Atlantic City casinos, in particular, are not in a position to take million dollar hits. Pennsylvania has made a strong push to become the gambling capital of the East Coast in the past couple of years, and New Jersey casinos have not responded. Analysts believe that by the end of 2012, Pennsylvania casinos will have passed New Jersey casinos in overall gaming revenue.

Source: Casinogamblingweb.com - News added: 2011-05-25 at: 00:00:03
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Now to recap. Did you catch the paragraph that says the following, "Caesars and Harrah's in Nevada and the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City have banned the blackjack player from enjoying the game he loves at their casinos. No evidence has been revealed to show that Johnson won the money by cheating, but the casinos figured they would cut their losses nonetheless."

In case you didn't know, the Trump Taj Mahal is located in Atlantic City and they are just one of the casinos that has banned Don Johnson.

Quote: Keyser

Source: Casinogamblingweb.com - News added: 2011-05-25 at: 00:00:03

Post the actual link. I can't get Casinogamblingweb.com to come up.

Quote: Keyser

http://www.reviewsarena.com/casino-portal/casino-news.php?id=1903

No, no, no. That's just a ripoff of the actual article. Read this:

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/meet-the-blackjack-player-who-beat-the-trop-for-million/article_86f42838-83c8-11e0-92d7-001cc4c03286.html

He was "turned down" in AC. "Unlike the past, the casinos are no longer willing to give him a 20 percent discount on his losses or shower him with other high-roller perks, he explained."

He wasn't banned. He just can't get his 20% loss rebate, so he chooses not to play at the action he wants. He'd certainly be welcome if he wanted to play for green or black and the normal rules mortals play by.

Quote: MathExtremist

No, no, no. That's just a ripoff of the actual article.

That source has published other details at variance with the history of this story, too:

"Blackjack Card Counting Teams Rape Atlantic City Casinos for Millions
May 12, 2011
Written by: Nick Meisher

In an epic attack upon the beleaguered Atlantic City casinos, multiple blackjack card counting teams reaped millions this April from Borgata and Tropicana casinos.

In April of 2011, a number of professional blackjack teams using the latest card counting systems descended upon Atlantic City, known as the jewel of New Jersey, and came away with millions from Tropicana and Borgata casino blackjack tables.

Considering past earning, during the month of April, a total of 9-11 million was lost at the Borgata, and 7-9 million at the Tropicana only at the blackjack tables."

The normal monthly profit from an Atlantic City casino blackjack card game tables is around 11%-16% of the total amount bet. Tropicana Casino & Hotel lost $1.87 million in April on their blackjack games while Borgata made less than a million from blackjack on a total of $75 million bet (1.2% profit). In comparison, Caesars, which the card counters avoided, made a $7.6 million profit from blackjack gambling during the same time frame.

Card counting, as has been described in yesterday’s BlackjackChamp article – Professional Casino Blackjack Card Counting Training Manual: Part 1 – requires the nerves of steel, Academy Award worthy acting ability, and the memory of an elephant.

When a group of such professional blackjack players work as a single unit, and with a large enough bankroll, the casinos stand very little chance of coming out on top.

The CEO of Tropicana Casino, Mr. Mark Giannantonio, revealed that a single player, ‘the head’, raped the blackjack table for 6 million dollars during a single session which accounted for 60% of the monthly loss. The CEO would not identify the player."----blackjackchamp.com

Hmm.....OP makes a statment with no documented backup.
Other members ask for evidence of statement. (While providing evidence to the contrary)
OP cannot provide evidence and gets defensive.
This pattern sounds awfully familiar...................

Quote: Ericayne

This pattern sounds awfully familiar...................

In a Jerry Logan / MKL sort of way...

Quote: Keyser

They can now ask you to stop playing any casino game since it is now at their discretion. . . . Ken Uston's case is out the door!

They actually seem to be celebrating the big winner(s):

$100,000 Winner Takes All Blackjack Tournament
Friday, September 2, 2011 through Saturday, September 3, 2011

Excitement is in the cards at Tropicana Casino & Resort with a celebrity appearance from Don Johnson on September 2 and 3. Don Johnson is the local personality who won $5.5 million at the Tropicana’s tables in April of this year.

Don will host a $100,000 Winner-Take-All Blackjack Tournament on September 2 & 3. Since winning over $5 million at one of Tropicana's blackjack tables, Don has become a celebrity over night. Now Tropicana customers have the opportunity to meet and play with or against him in this tournament.

New members can take advantage of an unprecedented offer: to get in on the action of a big money, invitational tournament. By signing up for a free Diamond Club card on September 2 at the Diamond Club Center, new club members will get a chance to play in Tropicana’s $100,000 Winner-Take-All Blackjack Tournament, an otherwise invitation-only event.

These new members and invited guests will participate in a "Ready, Set, Go Blackjack" qualifying round, that will take place from 5 p.m. to 11:45 p.m. on Friday, September 2. The top seven scorers will then advance to the $100,000 Winner-Take-All Blackjack Tournament, which takes place at 10 p.m. on Saturday, September 3, along with 42 invited guests including Don Johnson and 7 qualifiers.

On September 2 at 3:00 PM, to thank the celebrity for making this appearance, Tropicana is happily donating $10,000 to Don Johnson's favorite charity: the Jon Bon Jovi Soul Foundation which supports innovative community efforts to break the cycle of poverty and homelessness.
In addition to hosting the event, Johnson will be on hand from 4 p.m. to 5 p.m. on Friday, September 2 to greet players and pose for photos before the qualifying round of the tournament.

Certain restrictions apply. Visit the Diamond Club Center for complete details. Trop

Soooo, unless I missed it (and I apologize), was the QUESTION to Keyser answered?

Were you BANNED again?

Ken

Quote: mrjjj

Soooo, unless I missed it (and I apologize), was the QUESTION to Keyser answered? Were you BANNED again?

Apparently yes, judging by the new entry in the Red Flag thread a few months later.

I don't think Mr. Jjj liked the answer.