Countable side bets
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July 16th, 2026 at 7:18:13 PM
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Are there any other countable side bets in bacarrat better than dragon 7? Dragon 7 rarely hits when counted, and then hits when negative. Is there a better side bet count with better odds? What is the most countable side bet?
July 16th, 2026 at 7:27:56 PM
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Are there better side bets to count? Yes, many
What is the most countable? Not public knowledge for obvious reasons.
What is the most countable? Not public knowledge for obvious reasons.
July 16th, 2026 at 10:46:20 PM
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Earlier, I posted a much more countable side bet called Easy 6, My conclusion was based on Eliot’s online posts, but I myself have not found such a side bet anywhere in the world.
July 17th, 2026 at 1:00:12 AM
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Quote: tllAre there any other countable side bets in bacarrat better than dragon 7? Dragon 7 rarely hits when counted, and then hits when negative. Is there a better side bet count with better odds? What is the most countable side bet?
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Dragon 7 is one of the worst baccarat bets.
There are other bets which produce better expected value, some are listed here: https://discountgambling.net/category/baccarat/
Be warned: most of these bets require games with extremely deep penetration to be profitable. They tend to have the same distribution as dragon 7 (low frequency, high payout) though can have much higher earnings per hour.
I would avoid Eliot Jacobson's work on baccarat as his understanding of risk is very limited and can lead you to over-bet your bankroll, leading to instant ruin.
July 18th, 2026 at 5:39:46 PM
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What about side bets like 9-8 (3card 9-7) 8-6 or winning #1thru9 or lucky 6? Any of these countable, or a waste of time?
July 18th, 2026 at 10:11:58 PM
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many other side bets are countable but those that involve 3-card totals tend to be a bit less countable due to the complex drawing rules
July 20th, 2026 at 3:04:16 AM
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Essentially a waste of time, yes.
July 20th, 2026 at 1:05:43 PM
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So, your saying, stick to Blackjack! Gotcha
July 20th, 2026 at 1:47:29 PM
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There are professional baccarat side bet counters Graham just doesn’t have faith lol (if you go back a couple months you can find our thread on baccarat side bets)
July 20th, 2026 at 3:01:03 PM
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Quote: harrisThere are professional baccarat side bet counters Graham just doesn’t have faith lol (if you go back a couple months you can find our thread on baccarat side bets)
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There were some vague anecdotes about people beating baccarat side-bets but that is all there were. However, in most cases the simulations don't support the existence of a viable edge.
In almost every real-world case I've encountered the risk/return metric was significantly lower than a regular blackjack game.
July 20th, 2026 at 3:10:03 PM
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you're right that blackjack nearly always has a better risk/return metric - I guess the bacc side bet appeal depends on the fact that casinos are looking for blackjack counters much more than baccarat card counters. and the fact that baccarat card counters can sit out hands and write things down. personally i would prefer to be a baccarat card counter based on that alone.
i wonder if there are blackjack side bets (other than Over/Under 13) better than regular blackjack counting, do you have any insight?
If anyone has side bet counting lore that they don't want public, feel free to message me.
Also I apologize Graham, I did not mean to slight you and despite our disagreements about baccarat side bets I find you to be intelligent.
i wonder if there are blackjack side bets (other than Over/Under 13) better than regular blackjack counting, do you have any insight?
If anyone has side bet counting lore that they don't want public, feel free to message me.
Also I apologize Graham, I did not mean to slight you and despite our disagreements about baccarat side bets I find you to be intelligent.
July 20th, 2026 at 4:29:50 PM
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If I say something harsh here, many blackjack authors will probably bash me. No, blackjack is not beatable.
July 20th, 2026 at 4:42:40 PM
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Quote: acesideIf I say something harsh here, many blackjack authors will probably bash me. No, blackjack is not beatable.
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What constitutes something that is beatable?
Winrate/hour > $10?
Winrate/hour > $100?
Winrate/hour > $1000?
If your winrate/hour = $5 and you can use 300 users to bet on 50 online casino tables at the same time ?
July 20th, 2026 at 4:48:08 PM
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Blackjack shoe games are mostly in America and the minimum hourly wage there is about $15. I believe counters barely make that much.
July 20th, 2026 at 5:22:13 PM
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Quote: ssho88Quote: acesideIf I say something harsh here, many blackjack authors will probably bash me. No, blackjack is not beatable.
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What constitutes something that is beatable?
Winrate/hour > $10?
Winrate/hour > $100?
Winrate/hour > $1000?
If your winrate/hour = $5 and you can use 300 users to bet on 50 online casino tables at the same time ?
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You got it! Both the biggest restraint on me and the best protection for the casino is table limits.
By setting a reasonable table limit on all of their bets that covers what a typical unskilled player wants to play on them, they can get all that very profitable action and if a certain unusual monkey happens to show up, there's only one of me and a limit on how much I can play too. So my playing can't cost them any more than 2-3 typical players or 1 big player not playing because because the feng shui is bad or the music is bad or a server was rude to them. Not worth pursuing any further.
July 21st, 2026 at 3:54:08 AM
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Quote: ssho88Quote: acesideIf I say something harsh here, many blackjack authors will probably bash me. No, blackjack is not beatable.
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What constitutes something that is beatable?
Winrate/hour > $10?
Winrate/hour > $100?
Winrate/hour > $1000?
If your winrate/hour = $5 and you can use 300 users to bet on 50 online casino tables at the same time ?
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Yeah I've often argued this point with card counters who seem incapable of thinking outside the box on this. You'd think it was obvious: poker players have been doing it for decades.
The logistical problems with a major gnoming operation however are non-trivial, it is like running a business full-time before you even get to the gambling. And you will run into major problems with bans, possibly even non-payment (low probability but a major problem if it happens). You need a serious highly detectable amount of volume to make it work.
Other forms of profitable multi-accounting (eg poker, mmo's) don't have the detection/exclusion risk to the same extent.
