terapined
terapined
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June 27th, 2024 at 11:40:59 AM permalink
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2024/06/27/mgm-grand-detroit-lawsuit-denise-ezell-blackjack-casino-jackpot-trespassing/74225817007/

I think she has a strong case.
She won a jackpot at a table game
Totally legit win
High fives from fellow players
Dealer Congratulated her
Of course they ask for players card and ID
They see they kicked her out several years ago
Casino claims trespassing and refuses to pay her
WTF
It's OK to take trespassers money but not ok to pay???
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
rideordie
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June 27th, 2024 at 11:53:27 AM permalink
result from NV
www.reviewjournal.com/business/business-columns/inside-gaming/trespassers-winning-big-nevada-regulators-tackle-growing-problem-2930338/
darkoz
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June 27th, 2024 at 12:15:57 PM permalink
Yes she has a pretty strong case.

It helps there is Vegas precedent just recently that is also in her favor.

Ultimately it's simply that no business in any sector gets away with this.

Imagine if you had been trespassed from a furniture store, paid for a sofa set and then they discovered the trespassing and said they were keeping the money as a result.

The casinos keep confusing their rights as private enterprises with the rights to steal and cheat.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
JohnnyQ
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June 27th, 2024 at 12:42:56 PM permalink
Very interesting. An excerpt:

"As for the casino's alleged trespassing claim, Ezell said she has never been notified in any way — not by email, phone call, letter or text message — that she was prohibited from gambling at MGM Grand Detroit.

She also said she recalls asking the security guard who escorted her to the door that evening in 2015: "I asked, 'How long does this last?' He said, 'Maybe 24 or 48 hours.' So I just left. I was pissed."
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
terapined
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June 27th, 2024 at 12:57:42 PM permalink
Another excerpt

she tried to resolve the issue out of court by first going to the state gaming board for help, but that the board said it couldn't force the casino to do anything; that the gaming board was only an advisory committee.

WTF
Gaming board is just an advisory committee in Michigan ???????????
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
AitchTheLetter
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June 27th, 2024 at 1:00:18 PM permalink
An employee may have torpedoed ANY case the casino had.

Quote:

According to the lawsuit, after Ezell won the jackpot in 2023, the casino gave her a number to its security department while escorting her out.

Over the next several days, she called that number and spoke to a security employee who she said told her: “Don’t worry about them saying you were trespassing, we are going to get you your jackpot.”

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
terapined
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June 27th, 2024 at 1:13:52 PM permalink
Quote: AitchTheLetter

An employee may have torpedoed ANY case the casino had.

Quote:

According to the lawsuit, after Ezell won the jackpot in 2023, the casino gave her a number to its security department while escorting her out.

Over the next several days, she called that number and spoke to a security employee who she said told her: “Don’t worry about them saying you were trespassing, we are going to get you your jackpot.”


link to original post


I believe that
I think every casino employee involved in this situation thought she deserved the jackpot she won legitimately
No doubt some high up bean counter decided not to pay because of the amount of beans involved
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
AxelWolf
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June 27th, 2024 at 1:14:48 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Another excerpt

she tried to resolve the issue out of court by first going to the state gaming board for help, but that the board said it couldn't force the casino to do anything; that the gaming board was only an advisory committee.

WTF
Gaming board is just an advisory committee in Michigan ???????????
link to original post

FYI that's basically how it is in every jurisdiction I have ever played in. They can't force casinos to pay you. Normally casinos do take the advice of gaming.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
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June 27th, 2024 at 1:21:11 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: terapined

Another excerpt

she tried to resolve the issue out of court by first going to the state gaming board for help, but that the board said it couldn't force the casino to do anything; that the gaming board was only an advisory committee.

WTF
Gaming board is just an advisory committee in Michigan ???????????
link to original post

FYI that's basically how it is in every jurisdiction I have ever played in. They can't force casinos to pay you. Normally casinos do take the advice of gaming.
link to original post



Yeah I believe NJ is the only place the gambling commission can force a casino. It's partly why the Uston decision ruled they couldn't force out card counters. NJ regulations pretty much make the casinos state controlled.

Other jurisdictions the state just licenses and allows the properties private property reign.

The good news is if the gambling commission has actually stated they have no jurisdiction to force payment, that frees up the ability to seek the lawsuit. Otherwise the first move of the casino would be to claim lack of jurisdiction with the courts and send it back to the commission.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Deucekies
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June 27th, 2024 at 1:38:01 PM permalink
Based on what is presented in the article, I'm on the player's side. Even if the trespass was done properly back in 2015, it sounds like she's been back many times since then. Surely she's been carded at some point in the last nine years. At some point the casino has to admit that she's no longer trespassed.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
darkoz
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June 27th, 2024 at 1:50:12 PM permalink
Part of discovery will be for the original incident report filed by the casino which will include testimony by the security guard who walked her out.

So what he reported contemporaneously will be a strong factor. If he wrote what she says she told him in the report...
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AitchTheLetter
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June 27th, 2024 at 4:43:04 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Quote: AitchTheLetter

An employee may have torpedoed ANY case the casino had.

Quote:

According to the lawsuit, after Ezell won the jackpot in 2023, the casino gave her a number to its security department while escorting her out.

Over the next several days, she called that number and spoke to a security employee who she said told her: “Don’t worry about them saying you were trespassing, we are going to get you your jackpot.”


link to original post


I believe that
I think every casino employee involved in this situation thought she deserved the jackpot she won legitimately
No doubt some high up bean counter decided not to pay because of the amount of beans involved
link to original post



I think her account got some kind of flag from Security/Surveillance and a casino/table games manager saw it and decided to be a hardass. The content of the Security report for the 2015 incident would be interesting to see. If she DID get a letter from the casino then they should have some documentation of that.

She 100% deserves the funds though.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
darkoz
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June 27th, 2024 at 5:33:18 PM permalink
My prediction is the Detroit MGM lawyers tell management to just settle and pay up before they wind up with paying legal expenses for both sides not to mention the bad publicity.
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Zcore13
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June 27th, 2024 at 6:19:00 PM permalink
In Arizona, any pending jackpot money, money in a machine or in a betting circle is forfeited by the banned player and all money gets donated to the Tribes chosen charity. In table games, we wait to approach until after the hand is done so there's no money in the betting circle.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Nathan
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June 27th, 2024 at 9:34:04 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

In Arizona, any pending jackpot money, money in a machine or in a betting circle is forfeited by the banned player and all money gets donated to the Tribes chosen charity. In table games, we wait to approach until after the hand is done so there's no money in the betting circle.


ZCore13
link to original post



The thing is, she was told that the ban only lasted 48 hours at the most when it happened. That was NINE years ago. I myself got a 24 hour ban in January for asking complete Strangers to play on my Player's Club Card because I wanted more Bingo cards than my sole free Bingo card. If I win a Jackpot and the Casino is like, Sorry, you got banned in January , we're not paying you this Jackpot, I'd be livid, because it was a 24 hour ban. 😡🤬 This Woman's ban was for two days at the most 9 years ago and they need to pay her her Jackpot.
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darkoz
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June 27th, 2024 at 10:01:50 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

In Arizona, any pending jackpot money, money in a machine or in a betting circle is forfeited by the banned player and all money gets donated to the Tribes chosen charity. In table games, we wait to approach until after the hand is done so there's no money in the betting circle.


ZCore13
link to original post



Gives a new meaning to the term "Indian Giver".

At any rate what you basically are saying is be prepared to be robbed by Indians. (This is not a political statement. It's a statement about tribal lands being able to get away with criminal activities)
Last edited by: darkoz on Jun 28, 2024
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Deucekies
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June 27th, 2024 at 10:02:54 PM permalink
Yeah, the first thing the casino is gonna have to do is prove that they properly trespassed the guest. And then the second thing they're gonna have to do is explain how she was able to come back so many times after.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
Zcore13
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June 27th, 2024 at 10:22:28 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Zcore13

In Arizona, any pending jackpot money, money in a machine or in a betting circle is forfeited by the banned player and all money gets donated to the Tribes chosen charity. In table games, we wait to approach until after the hand is done so there's no money in the betting circle.


ZCore13
link to original post



Gives a new meaning to the term "Indian Giver".

At any rate what you basically are saying is be prepared to be robbed by Indians.
link to original post



What I'm saying is, when you are told to never come back to a business (or my house for that matter), prepare for bad things to happen if you do.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
rainman
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June 27th, 2024 at 10:27:40 PM permalink
If she played machines with players card during her alleged ban you can make a strong
argument they knew of her presence did nothing and effectively rescinded the trespass.
Dieter
Administrator
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June 28th, 2024 at 12:32:17 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

In Arizona, any pending jackpot money, money in a machine or in a betting circle is forfeited by the banned player and all money gets donated to the Tribes chosen charity. In table games, we wait to approach until after the hand is done so there's no money in the betting circle.


ZCore13
link to original post



I've heard this about self-exclusion, but can you confirm this also applies to involuntary exclusion?
May the cards fall in your favor.
darkoz
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June 28th, 2024 at 5:35:25 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Zcore13

In Arizona, any pending jackpot money, money in a machine or in a betting circle is forfeited by the banned player and all money gets donated to the Tribes chosen charity. In table games, we wait to approach until after the hand is done so there's no money in the betting circle.


ZCore13
link to original post



Gives a new meaning to the term "Indian Giver".

At any rate what you basically are saying is be prepared to be robbed by Indians.
link to original post



What I'm saying is, when you are told to never come back to a business (or my house for that matter), prepare for bad things to happen if you do.


ZCore13
link to original post



And what you are saying is you do criminal things.

Yes criminal. If I come back to a business I am trespassed from, call the police for trespassing but you don't get to Rob me.

If you believe you do get a sudden license to steal, well, now you understand AP's disdain for casino security who suddenly see theft as a form of trespassing protection.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
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June 28th, 2024 at 5:58:43 AM permalink
Quote: rainman

If she played machines with players card during her alleged ban you can make a strong
argument they knew of her presence did nothing and effectively rescinded the trespass.
link to original post



I don't think she used one.

The article says when she won she was asked for her players card or ID and she handed over her ID.
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