Dealers resist becoming supervisors because it's less money

Ironically, floor supervisors often make less money than the dealers they supervise, because dealers get tips and supervisors don't. This is especially true at the ritzier casinos, where the tips are higher. And that often makes it hard to get anyone to be a supervisor. In 2006, Wynn addressed this problem by requiring dealers to share tips with supervisors, figuring the dealers had some room to share because they're among the highest-paid dealers in the world. Of course the dealers didn't see it that way, and sued. This wasn't resolved until 2021, when Wynn agreed to pay out $5.6 million to the dealers. (That's about $4170 per dealer, though some dealers claim they lost as much as $100,000 in tips.) (source)

So, today when I heard that a table games dealer at a high-end property was moving to management at Fontainebleau, I asked for her take on dealers resisting moving up because it's often less money. She replied, "It's true. I won't be making as much money. But I'm burnt out. Plus, dealing for 20 years is hard on your body. I have issues in my elbows and wrists, plus lower back. I'm ready to start a new career."

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Ironically, floor supervisors often make less money than the dealers they supervise, because dealers get tips and supervisors don't. This is especially true at the ritzier casinos, where the tips are higher. And that often makes it hard to get anyone to be a supervisor. In 2006, Wynn addressed this problem by requiring dealers to share tips with supervisors, figuring the dealers had some room to share because they're among the highest-paid dealers in the world. Of course the dealers didn't see it that way, and sued.

I remember that, it was a really big deal. 2006, wow it doesn't seem that long ago.

I forget what the practice is called, but don't some casinos allow you to work as both a dealer (for more money) and in a more managerial role (for more experience) in different shifts? Thought I heard that somewhere...

Quote: TigerWu

I forget what the practice is called, but don't some casinos allow you to work as both a dealer (for more money) and in a more managerial role (for more experience) in different shifts? Thought I heard that somewhere...
link to original post

Dual-rate. That's pretty common. A dual-rate dealer will usually spend one day a week as a floor supervisor.

The OP hit it right on the head. Most people who leave dealing to become a floor supervisor do so because they physically can't deal anymore.

At a Mgm property, a slot supervisor stepped down to be a slot attendant because it was more $.
I asked him did the current slot manager (oversees all slots) get her job because she was the only one that accepted the salary offered? He said no comment.
(I think she's incompetent)

Quote: Deucekies

Quote: TigerWu

I forget what the practice is called, but don't some casinos allow you to work as both a dealer (for more money) and in a more managerial role (for more experience) in different shifts? Thought I heard that somewhere...
link to original post

Dual-rate. That's pretty common. A dual-rate dealer will usually spend one day a week as a floor supervisor.

The OP hit it right on the head. Most people who leave dealing to become a floor supervisor do so because they physically can't deal anymore.
link to original post

There do seem to be a few dual-rates that seem to genuinely(?) prefer a suit to a dealer uniform, and a very few who think they're doing somebody a favor and it will help them in the long run.

Quote: Deucekies

Quote: TigerWu

I forget what the practice is called, but don't some casinos allow you to work as both a dealer (for more money) and in a more managerial role (for more experience) in different shifts? Thought I heard that somewhere...
link to original post

Dual-rate. That's pretty common. A dual-rate dealer will usually spend one day a week as a floor supervisor.

The OP hit it right on the head. Most people who leave dealing to become a floor supervisor do so because they physically can't deal anymore.
link to original post

Or they are looking to eventually be a Floor Manager or higher.

It's shortsighted, as being a dealer is a dead-end job. Taking a pay cut to advance into management is a long-term play. IN AC, I knew several people who worked two jobs—one casino as a dealer, and a different one as a supervisor. I never heard of dual rates in AC. The first time I encountered it was in Laughlin. It's common in Vegas. It might be in AC, I just never ran into it.

Quote: billryan

It's shortsighted, as being a dealer is a dead-end job. Taking a pay cut to advance into management is a long-term play. IN AC, I knew several people who worked two jobs—one casino as a dealer, and a different one as a supervisor. I never heard of dual rates in AC. The first time I encountered it was in Laughlin. It's common in Vegas. It might be in AC, I just never ran into it.
link to original post

I was surprised by how much the dealers at the big properties were making. Many made over $100k.

In Michigan I've seen dealers double as pit people many times, especially women. It's very common in the Indian casinos. One thing I've never seen in the pit of any Indian Casino is an actual Native American. Once in awhile, once in a great while I'll see one as a dealer but that's rare.

Quote: DRich

Quote: billryan

It's shortsighted, as being a dealer is a dead-end job. Taking a pay cut to advance into management is a long-term play. IN AC, I knew several people who worked two jobs—one casino as a dealer, and a different one as a supervisor. I never heard of dual rates in AC. The first time I encountered it was in Laughlin. It's common in Vegas. It might be in AC, I just never ran into it.
link to original post

I was surprised by how much the dealers at the big properties were making. Many made over $100k.
link to original post

100K isn't what it used to be. Two cars, a mortgage payment, braces, college fund, vet bills, soccer camp, cable tv, cell phones for the family, etc, etc
I read the other day that making $100,000 in NYC gives you a lifestyle similar to what $35,000 buys you in Southern Arizona. I was surprised it was that low.

Quote: billryan

100K isn't what it used to be. Two cars, a mortgage payment, braces, college fund, vet bills, soccer camp, cable tv, cell phones for the family, etc, etc

Plus tattoos, piercings and sex-change operations

With 100k for a family, forget about a college fund no matter where you live in USA

250k is the new 100k. Especially considering recent inflation

Dealers and moving to management has a few things about it.

Dealing is what can be called a moderate-skilled job. You can not be a total screw up, but a high school education is enough to get you up to near $40K at most places in just a month or two,. Given that casinos are now coast to coast it is a job you can take most places. Even a place "not hiring" will probably put a skilled dealer on just because finding one is a gift from above. Teach house procedure and they are ready to go vs. weeks in dealer school.

For this reason, dealing attracts many types. Kid out of school. Guy lost his job at the mill and needs to earn. Single mother with minimal education. Does not matter, dunmy up and deal. Be friendly, earn tokes.

As to moving up to management, lots of people want to do that less and less as they get older. I worked at a place (not a casino) that was starting to force people to move up to supervisors or underwriters after so much time because they needed to fill roles. They laid us all off when they lost their client but I had my answer ready:

"You need to be a supervisor"
"No thanks"
"Why?"
"Remember that email you sent about an issue last Sunday evening?"
"Which client? What issue?"
"Did you hear about when I sad you sent it?"

Dealers going to supervisor will not only make less but lose any choice in shift they have plus any other lets call them "seniority perks." The skill set of a pit boss is very different than for a dealer. You have to buy a bunch of suits and if the wardrobe department does not offer the service pay to keep them clean. And the biggie, you have to answer to a bigger boss as well as worry about a pit of dealers showing up to saying the wrong thing to guests.

Younger people may see themselves eventually running the casino. You get older and even if you are smart enough for the job you look at it different.

Eight years ago, a blackjack dealer friend on the strip told me he was earning $18,000 more annually than the supervisors.

Quote: 100xOdds

At a Mgm property, a slot supervisor stepped down to be a slot attendant because it was more $.
I asked him did the current slot manager (oversees all slots) get her job because she was the only one that accepted the salary offered? He said no comment.
(I think she's incompetent)
link to original post

If they are claiming because of TIPS, I dont believe that's the reason. I don't think TIPS add all that much to a slot attendance income.


I dont know how much the people make at places like Jackpot Joanie's, Dotty's, and various Bar's.

If you take a place like Joanie's there's oftentimes only one person who does everything. They are the slot attendant, bartender, cashier, "security", slot club rep, and sever. At a good location, a good-looking chick has to be making bank.

Quote: EvenBob

In Michigan I've seen dealers double as pit people many times, especially women. It's very common in the Indian casinos. One thing I've never seen in the pit of any Indian Casino is an actual Native American. Once in awhile, once in a great while I'll see one as a dealer but that's rare.
link to original post

There are very few full-blooded Native Americans running around these days. Many people you see working in those Tribal casinos may not "look" Native American but they have Native American blood in them and are legally considered as much. I've known pasty white blonde people that are considered Native Americans.

Quote: AxelWolf

If they are claiming because of TIPS, I dont believe that's the reason. I don't think TIPS add all that much to a slot attendance income.

I think you'd be surprised. I've heard at some tribals near me, slot attendants make more than dealers.

Quote: Deucekies

Quote: AxelWolf

If they are claiming because of TIPS, I dont believe that's the reason. I don't think TIPS add all that much to a slot attendance income.

I think you'd be surprised. I've heard at some tribals near me, slot attendants make more than dealers.
link to original post

I can't comment on tribal casinos. Well kinda unless there's something special.

However, I think the concept is the same.
Remember, I was commenting on slots only, I have no clue what the desperately is with table games dealer's and management.

Slots...

Lot's of slot attendants,bvary few jackpot, very few people who know jackpot tipping is a thing.

I don't know. . but I estimate tips for a slot person is less than 8k per year in a normal casino.

Quote: AxelWolf

I don't know. . but I estimate tips for a slot person is less than 8k per year in a normal casino.
link to original post

Does anyone know how common toke pooling is for slot attendants? $32/day average sounds low to me.

A number of the "slot channels" make (or made) a point of showing handpay tipping. This seems less prevalent with the relatively new rapid pay player initiated key-to-credit alternative.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AxelWolf

I don't know. . but I estimate tips for a slot person is less than 8k per year in a normal casino.
link to original post

Does anyone know how common toke pooling is for slot attendants? $32/day average sounds low to me.

A number of the "slot channels" make (or made) a point of showing handpay tipping. This seems less prevalent with the relatively new rapid pay player initiated key-to-credit alternative.
link to original post

You can base your estimate on slot channels, they have a reputation and appearance to keep up. They will tip/suggest way more than the average person. If someone tells you, you should tip 20% they themselves are probably tipping 10% when no one is looking.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AxelWolf

I don't know. . but I estimate tips for a slot person is less than 8k per year in a normal casino.
link to original post

Does anyone know how common toke pooling is for slot attendants?

I would guess near 100%. I have heard they do very well. That is one job I would never tip for. Giving you a cut for handing me my money, really?

In some east coast casinos I have heard that the slot attendants are making $30-40 per hour. I don’t know what part of that is tips though.

In 1998, I was helping a friend get his finances together. Hw was a slot attendant at Showboat and, at the time, made over $200 a week in tips. That was back when they did coin refills, and machines jammed more. He'd bust his ass when it was crowded.

At my tribal casinos I tip $20 on all handpays and on a few occasions I've tipped more when getting some really nice wins.

From my experience (observing others), it seems pretty standard.

Yes, I personally think it's silly that we "have to do it", but on the other hand I do enjoy being on good terms with everyone there. Could do my thing without it? Probably. Does it materially impact my results? Not really. Cost of doing business.

Having worked at several casinos, I can tell you that dealers almost always make more than supervisors. There are several reasons for that. One, the dealer is the true frontline employee, dealing with the guests and earning tips. Second, the tips make up a majority of the paycheck and supervisor pay is 100 percent from the casino. The casino (as most any business) wants to keep wage payments lower.

And through word of mouth, the same is true in slots. I know there are usually 100s of applications to be a slot attendant at one of the bigger tribal properties in Oklahoma. They easily clear six figures and they tip share.

I think slot attendant is definitely the best gig in the casino. Poker dealer probably pays the best but I think slot attendant’s have the best mix of everything. Sure some people don’t tip on jackpots but most do. I tip $20 minimum. With minimum wage, that covers an hour of a decent income. When not paying jackpots they have pretty laid back responsibilities like maintaining machines and straightening chairs.

On a side note, tipping is getting way out of hand. Of course I’m always dropping a dollar to the cashiers but asking on the screen is going too far. I rented a paddle boat on a lake awhile ago. They had a tip jar and pop up on the iPad for credit cards.

https://youtube.com/shorts/KpfVJMuLHog?si=Ue7m4CfwbUVTjrYC

I picked up two pizzas from Pizza Hut a few weeks ago. I ordered and paid on the Internet. The counter guy took them out of a hot box, looked at the receipt, and loudly announced, "Two pizzas, meatballs, and sausage. Two for $15.65 and no tip," before putting them on the counter and walking away.

Quote: billryan

I picked up two pizzas from Pizza Hut a few weeks ago. I ordered and paid on the Internet. The counter guy took them out of a hot box, looked at the receipt, and loudly announced, "Two pizzas, meatballs, and sausage. Two for $15.65 and no tip," before putting them on the counter and walking away.
link to original post

next time go back with your phone on video in your pocket then put it on youtube with the address of the place

Quote: billryan

I picked up two pizzas from Pizza Hut a few weeks ago. I ordered and paid on the Internet. The counter guy took them out of a hot box, looked at the receipt, and loudly announced, "Two pizzas, meatballs, and sausage. Two for $15.65 and no tip," before putting them on the counter and walking away.
link to original post

When I was in high school, I had pizza delivered to my school. As I was signing the receipt, the driver, who was brand new, said "No tip?!", not realizing that I was about to hand him a $5 bill instead of putting it on my card.

Imagine the look on his face a few hours later when I showed up at the pizza place...and clocked in for my shift.

Quote: Deucekies

Quote: billryan

I picked up two pizzas from Pizza Hut a few weeks ago. I ordered and paid on the Internet. The counter guy took them out of a hot box, looked at the receipt, and loudly announced, "Two pizzas, meatballs, and sausage. Two for $15.65 and no tip," before putting them on the counter and walking away.
link to original post

When I was in high school, I had pizza delivered to my school. As I was signing the receipt, the driver, who was brand new, said "No tip?!", not realizing that I was about to hand him a $5 bill instead of putting it on my card.

Imagine the look on his face a few hours later when I showed up at the pizza place...and clocked in for my shift.
link to original post

Mr. Hand must have gone insane.