WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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November 23rd, 2010 at 6:40:47 AM permalink
Basically there is an electronic machine that allows you to play either three card poker, single deck blackjack or let it ride.

You can play three hands of 3CP but you only see each hand in order, so you decide to play or fold hand 1 before you see hand 2 or 3, then you decide hand 2.... and so on.

Single deck blackjack, allows 4 hands to be played at once, could i bet minimum on the first three hands, and maximum on the 4th, then draw as many cards as possible to gain info for the fourth hand? bet range is 1-100 max, so you could bet 1-1-1-97

Let it ride, I have not played it, but you can play 3 hands at once, I assume seeing each hand after it is decided if you are going to play. This machine is not watched, so in the case of the single deck blackjack you could hit 20 on the minimum hand without fear of being caught.
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cardshark
cardshark
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November 23rd, 2010 at 7:01:41 AM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

Basically there is an electronic machine that allows you to play either three card poker, single deck blackjack or let it ride.

You can play three hands of 3CP but you only see each hand in order, so you decide to play or fold hand 1 before you see hand 2 or 3, then you decide hand 2.... and so on.

Single deck blackjack, allows 4 hands to be played at once, could i bet minimum on the first three hands, and maximum on the 4th, then draw as many cards as possible to gain info for the fourth hand? bet range is 1-100 max, so you could bet 1-1-1-97

Let it ride, I have not played it, but you can play 3 hands at once, I assume seeing each hand after it is decided if you are going to play. This machine is not watched, so in the case of the single deck blackjack you could hit 20 on the minimum hand without fear of being caught.



You'll need to provide us with the rules for the blackjack game in order to analyze it (stand or hit soft 17? early or late surrender? split to 4 hands? European hole card rule? does bj pay 3-2? etc). If the rules are favorable enough, it might be possible to get a small advantage.

As for let it ride, seeing 3 hands is only 6 cards more and I don't think that is enough to get over 3.5% house edge (standard rules). As per the WOO site: "According to Grosjean, if you can see every player card in a 7-player game, and made perfect use of the information, it would lower the house advantage from 3.51% to 2.34% only."

The same goes for 3cp.
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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November 23rd, 2010 at 7:22:31 AM permalink
Quote: cardshark

You'll need to provide us with the rules for the blackjack game in order to analyze it (stand or hit soft 17? early or late surrender? split to 4 hands? European hole card rule? does bj pay 3-2? etc). If the rules are favorable enough, it might be possible to get a small advantage.

As for let it ride, seeing 3 hands is only 6 cards more and I don't think that is enough to get over 3.5% house edge (standard rules). As per the WOO site: "According to Grosjean, if you can see every player card in a 7-player game, and made perfect use of the information, it would lower the house advantage from 3.51% to 2.34% only."

The same goes for 3cp.



Ah ha sorry.

Stand on all 17's, no surrender, split once only :-( and no hole card. BJ pays 3-2 double down on 9-10-11 and insurance if an ace is showing. you would lose your double or split bets if a ten turned into a BJ
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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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November 23rd, 2010 at 7:37:10 AM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

Single deck blackjack, allows 4 hands to be played at once, could i bet minimum on the first three hands, and maximum on the 4th, then draw as many cards as possible to gain info for the fourth hand? bet range is 1-100 max, so you could bet 1-1-1-97.

That may not work. Some (most? all?) blackjack machines use multiple deck shoes, and individual shoes for each player and the dealer.

So this is single deck? Is it one deck for the entire hand, or one deck per player? I'd play a few games at low bets with maximum players and see if any card repeats during the hand. Then you'd know.


Quote: WizardofEngland

This machine is not watched, so in the case of the single deck blackjack you could hit 20 on the minimum hand without fear of being caught.

The machine could be watching itself. Sending an alert to a floorperson if a player repeatedly hits on hands like 18, 19 or 20 would be a simple thing to program.
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WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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November 23rd, 2010 at 7:51:39 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

That may not work. Some (most? all?) blackjack machines use multiple deck shoes, and individual shoes for each player and the dealer.

So this is single deck? Is it one deck for the entire hand, or one deck per player? I'd play a few games at low bets with maximum players and see if any card repeats during the hand. Then you'd know.


The machine could be watching itself. Sending an alert to a floorperson if a player repeatedly hits on hands like 18, 19 or 20 would be a simple thing to program.



It is one deck for the whole game, 100% confirmed.

And it cannot report anything back, its part of the requirement for the machine to be in place. It's in an off track betting shop well away from the single staff member, not even in line of sight, who wouldn't even know what you were doing if they saw you do it. I would of course want to keep it low key, or once the realise they are losing on it, they will change how it works.
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miplet
miplet
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November 23rd, 2010 at 8:02:13 AM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

Ah ha sorry.

Stand on all 17's, no surrender, split once only :-( and no hole card. BJ pays 3-2 double down on 9-10-11 and insurance if an ace is showing. you would lose your double or split bets if a ten turned into a BJ


Double after split?
Lose double splits bet to ace showing turning into BJ?
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WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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November 23rd, 2010 at 8:06:20 AM permalink
yes you can double after a split, and you would lose it to all bj's
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cardshark
cardshark
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November 23rd, 2010 at 8:50:52 AM permalink
Plugging your rules into the WOO bj house edge calculator gives me a 0.1% house advantage. It wouldn't take much to counter this advantage, so in your example of 1-1-1-97, I think counting would get you a +EV in the long run. Play all hands optimally (in other words, don't bust the first three hands to get more cards out, that will cost more than its worth in +EV on the last hand), using a count-adjusted, composition-dependent strategy (dig around the WOO blackjack site).

Now, that said, you aren't walking away with a big advantage here. I don't know the number, but I'm thinking its less than 1%. Is it worth the risk? Maybe.
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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November 23rd, 2010 at 8:57:16 AM permalink
Quote: cardshark

Plugging your rules into the WOO bj house edge calculator gives me a 0.1% house advantage. It wouldn't take much to counter this advantage, so in your example of 1-1-1-97, I think counting would get you a +EV in the long run. Play all hands optimally (in other words, don't bust the first three hands to get more cards out, that will cost more than its worth in +EV on the last hand), using a count-adjusted, composition-dependent strategy (dig around the WOO blackjack site).

Now, that said, you aren't walking away with a big advantage here. I don't know the number, but I'm thinking its less than 1%. Is it worth the risk? Maybe.



If it was 1%, I would theoretically be making £1 per game, and I can play about 2 games a minute. so £2 per minute = £120 an hour! Or about $200. Not to shabby, but what sort of count?
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cardshark
cardshark
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November 23rd, 2010 at 9:06:04 AM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

If it was 1%, I would theoretically be making £1 per game, and I can play about 2 games a minute. so £2 per minute = £120 an hour! Or about $200. Not to shabby, but what sort of count?



I don't think its as high as 1%, but I don't know how to quickly quantify your advantage. Maybe another member can chime in with a more precise figure.

Even at 0.2%, that's £24 an hour, which might be worthwhile for you.

As for a count, you want to use composition-dependent strategy. You can find charts on the WOO blackjack site for a single hand. You'll need to do some research as to how to play that last hand as optimally as possible.

There are other considerations, like bankroll size. As you can imagine, you will need a huge bankroll for $100 bets with a reasonable risk of ruin.

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