Forcing a table game to close
Quote: VegasriderIn Nevada, does a pit boss have the right to close a table game while there are still players playing? I was surprised to be told that my game (DJ Wild) will be closing in 20 minutes due to not having enough (graveyard) dealers. The real reason they are too cheap to pay OT.
Ive witnessed this. I think the casino loses money unless its a higher min. Table.
Quote: VegasriderIn Nevada, does a pit boss have the right to close a table game while there are still players playing? I was surprised to be told that my game (DJ Wild) will be closing in 20 minutes due to not having enough (graveyard) dealers. The real reason they are too cheap to pay OT.
I would guess they can do anything they want....within law.
Quote: VegasriderI can see combining tables but to close the only game while there are multiple players was puzzling. Even with OT, the table most likely will make money. Fortunately they never closed it since another game broke. But if they were going to close it, I was going to purposely walk out and go home, leaving my $1200 on the table. The pit boss would had to wait thinking I would come back and would had to finally fill out paperwork to send my chips to the cage.
Wow, that's really tough of you. You would have shown them.
ZCore13
Quote: VegasriderI can see combining tables but to close the only game while there are multiple players was puzzling. Even with OT, the table most likely will make money. Fortunately they never closed it since another game broke. But if they were going to close it, I was going to purposely walk out and go home, leaving my $1200 on the table. The pit boss would had to wait thinking I would come back and would had to finally fill out paperwork to send my chips to the cage.
Better yet, leave $1200 on multiple tables. That will show them.
My Grandma used to tell of a time the circus came to town and after the parade, some elephant dung was in front of the house. When no one from the circus would clean it, she set off on a campaign of revenge.
Long story short, she bought front row seats and didn't use them. That certainly showed those suckers.
Quote: AZDuffmanI do not see why they would not be allowed to do so. How is that different from closing any service? Restaurants in casinos close. A shoe shine stand in a casino could close at off hours. They gave polite notice they had to close the table, what is the issue?
I agree. They are offering a game. They can choose not to offer it at any time. It's really no different than their ability to stop accepting your bets if they choose.
Quote: AZDuffmanI do not see why they would not be allowed to do so. How is that different from closing any service? Restaurants in casinos close. A shoe shine stand in a casino could close at off hours. They gave polite notice they had to close the table, what is the issue?
Casino is 24hr. Gaming is different from food service. Here in Nev, when they have pool parties or cover charges to areas where there is gaming, you cannot be stopped from playing. You bypass the long line to enter and dont pay a cover if you say you are there to play. I know this scenario is a bit different. But to your point, if they decide to close a game while there are still players playing, then they need to close EVERY game.
I have to contact gaming or try to see if there is anything mentioned in our NRS statue
Quote: VegasriderCasino is 24hr. Gaming is different from food service. Here in Nev, when they have pool parties or cover charges to areas where there is gaming, you cannot be stopped from playing. You bypass the long line to enter and dont pay a cover if you say you are there to play. I know this scenario is a bit different. But to your point, if they decide to close a game while there are still players playing, then they need to close EVERY game.
I have to contact gaming or try to see if there is anything mentioned in our NRS statue
In Nevada they can close a game at anytime. I have been at tables multiple times where they closed them.
Quote: VegasriderCasino is 24hr. Gaming is different from food service. Here in Nev, when they have pool parties or cover charges to areas where there is gaming, you cannot be stopped from playing. You bypass the long line to enter and dont pay a cover if you say you are there to play. I know this scenario is a bit different. But to your point, if they decide to close a game while there are still players playing, then they need to close EVERY game.
I have to contact gaming or try to see if there is anything mentioned in our NRS statue
I'm pretty sure you are wrong. I know for sure that's the case in Az. Games can be opened and closed based on staffing and business needs. It's more than just a dealer that is needed to keep an extra table or pit open. And if you're not playing at a certain minimum it's not worth keeping it open.
ZCore13
I'll agree with the OP that it seems odd to close the only DJW table. I would have sooner closed whatever blackjack table had the smallest action. Presumably I've got several of those open.
Quote: VegasriderCasino is 24hr. Gaming is different from food service. Here in Nev, when they have pool parties or cover charges to areas where there is gaming, you cannot be stopped from playing. You bypass the long line to enter and dont pay a cover if you say you are there to play. I know this scenario is a bit different. But to your point, if they decide to close a game while there are still players playing, then they need to close EVERY game.
I have to contact gaming or try to see if there is anything mentioned in our NRS statue
That doesn't make sense. EVERY game? Why? I see not one good reason.
Staffing is made on projections. Sometimes people call off. Either way, staffing can be short and adjustments need to be made. They were extra polite in giving notice. That lets players who have a goal or are working their own betting patterns to finish. No matter what it was polite. Like giving notice limits are going up. By your logic there, limits need to go up on ALL tables, no?
You were playing a game and they had to make a staffing adjustment. Big deal, Get on with your life. Find something important to be upset about.
Quote: VegasriderBut if they were going to close it, I was going to purposely walk out and go home, leaving my $1200 on the table. The pit boss would had to wait thinking I would come back and would had to finally fill out paperwork to send my chips to the cage.
Gosh, get a life. That's ridiculous.
Quote: bobbartopGosh, get a life. That's ridiculous.
Particular shift manager does everything he can to drive away my action. He has threatened to back me off on UTH because I was helping other players how to play. He said the casino was better off without me for a couple of reasons, I was a winning player and I was helping others win. No different than someone giving advice in a BJ game. Fine, I stopped giving advice. I stopped playing UTH and transitioned to DJ. I’m having better success playing DJ than UTH. Now he’s accusing me of exposing my cards and slowing down the game. He should watch me play before accusing me of any wrong doing. I’ve been a life long poker player, it’s a habit for me not to expose my cards. And I always sit at 3rd base so it’s really difficult to see what I have. Every other player shares, expose or even shows their happy winning hands. Many players pinch their cards then arrange their hand in whatever order, that slows down the game. It takes me one second for me to read my hand and I either bet or don’t play. I’m literally the fastest DJ player in Reno. I don’t waste time sorting my cards. Now since I sit at 3rd base, my hand is 1st to be turned over by the dealer if played so once everyone has acted I usually just spread my cards face up and I bet or don’t bet. I’m actually saving time by doing something that the dealer has to do anyways. I don’t know how’s that’s exposing the cards since everyone else has either folded or already bet. I’m expediting the game. But again, no big deal, I can just turn my hand face down and let the dealer turn it over.
When I play live poker I love really fast dealers who can pitch the cards. I hate slow dealers, or worst slow dealers who talk. I don’t mind dealers who talk as long as they keep the game going. Players who play slow also irritates me. This is my mindset playing the table games, I like to play fast. So LOL on the manager saying I’m slowing down the game.
Quote: VegasriderParticular shift manager does everything he can to drive away my action. He has threatened to back me off on UTH because I was helping other players how to play. He said the casino was better off without me for a couple of reasons, I was a winning player and I was helping others win. No different than someone giving advice in a BJ game. Fine, I stopped giving advice. I stopped playing UTH and transitioned to DJ. I’m having better success playing DJ than UTH. Now he’s accusing me of exposing my cards and slowing down the game. He should watch me play before accusing me of any wrong doing. I’ve been a life long poker player, it’s a habit for me not to expose my cards. And I always sit at 3rd base so it’s really difficult to see what I have. Every other player shares, expose or even shows their happy winning hands. Many players pinch their cards then arrange their hand in whatever order, that slows down the game. It takes me one second for me to read my hand and I either bet or don’t play. I’m literally the fastest DJ player in Reno. I don’t waste time sorting my cards. Now since I sit at 3rd base, my hand is 1st to be turned over by the dealer if played so once everyone has acted I usually just spread my cards face up and I bet or don’t bet. I’m actually saving time by doing something that the dealer has to do anyways. I don’t know how’s that’s exposing the cards since everyone else has either folded or already bet. I’m expediting the game. But again, no big deal, I can just turn my hand face down and let the dealer turn it over.
When I play live poker I love really fast dealers who can pitch the cards. I hate slow dealers, or worst slow dealers who talk. I don’t mind dealers who talk as long as they keep the game going. Players who play slow also irritates me. This is my mindset playing the table games, I like to play fast. So LOL on the manager saying I’m slowing down the game.
There's just too much here to laugh at, but the funniest is that you think you can decide the rules you play by. You think since you are last to play and first to be settled that you can play them face up. Have you ever thought to ask the people that are really in charge if that's ok? Have you ever thought that dealers can get written up by surveillance for allowing players to do that?
You sound like someone I would just kick out rather than have to deal with you. Not worth the trouble to everyone.
ZCore13
Quote: VegasriderIn Nevada, does a pit boss have the right to close a table game while there are still players playing? I was surprised to be told that my game (DJ Wild) will be closing in 20 minutes due to not having enough (graveyard) dealers. The real reason they are too cheap to pay OT.
When U said "my game (DJ Wild) ", I thought you were the owner/developer of the game. Actually, you were just playing the casino's game. It can shut down its game any time it wants. Can a restaurant tell its customers that it's closing because the cook wants to go home? I think YES.
Quote: VegasriderParticular shift manager does everything he can to drive away my action. He has threatened to back me off on UTH because I was helping other players how to play. He said the casino was better off without me for a couple of reasons, I was a winning player and I was helping others win. No different than someone giving advice in a BJ game. Fine, I stopped giving advice. I stopped playing UTH and transitioned to DJ. I’m having better success playing DJ than UTH. Now he’s accusing me of exposing my cards and slowing down the game. He should watch me play before accusing me of any wrong doing. I’ve been a life long poker player, it’s a habit for me not to expose my cards. And I always sit at 3rd base so it’s really difficult to see what I have. Every other player shares, expose or even shows their happy winning hands. Many players pinch their cards then arrange their hand in whatever order, that slows down the game. It takes me one second for me to read my hand and I either bet or don’t play. I’m literally the fastest DJ player in Reno. I don’t waste time sorting my cards. Now since I sit at 3rd base, my hand is 1st to be turned over by the dealer if played so once everyone has acted I usually just spread my cards face up and I bet or don’t bet. I’m actually saving time by doing something that the dealer has to do anyways. I don’t know how’s that’s exposing the cards since everyone else has either folded or already bet. I’m expediting the game. But again, no big deal, I can just turn my hand face down and let the dealer turn it over.
When I play live poker I love really fast dealers who can pitch the cards. I hate slow dealers, or worst slow dealers who talk. I don’t mind dealers who talk as long as they keep the game going. Players who play slow also irritates me. This is my mindset playing the table games, I like to play fast. So LOL on the manager saying I’m slowing down the game.
Omg, seek help. What an attitude. I bet you're a barrel of laughs in a poker game. Sadly, I'm quite sure there is nothing that will help you, nothing that will change your view of the gambling world. It must have taken years and years to get this bitter.
But as one member mentioned, and ts a great point, I don't want the dealer to get written up as surveillance could misinterpret based on what I did by me doing my last action flop.
I hope this thread brought some amusement to some, we are all.different and have different mindsets when it comes to gambling. I'm a very competitive person and always looking for an edge to help beat the game.
I see this happen all over, its a reality when playing at 24/7 casinos at odd times, shifts change, dealers call out or dont show, so tables get closed.
Its pretty common.
Are they too cheap to pay OT? Maybe, or maybe the dealer just does not want to be forced into OT?
Several bartenders told me that it was because the bar didn't own their own gambling machines. I took it to mean the state mandated them to stay open but now think it was the game leasing companies that insist on that.
Quote: billryanWhen I first moved to Vegas, I was surprised some local bars stay open 24/7.
Several bartenders told me that it was because the bar didn't own their own gambling machines. I took it to mean the state mandated them to stay open but now think it was the game leasing companies that insist on that.
Casino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not. So seems to me paying OT, which is an extra $3.63 an hour based on state minimum wage is a no brainier. Based on the time, it would involve the 7-3 dealers to work about 2 hours of OT. Manager did say cannot close a ctaps game in the middle of a roll.
Quote: VegasriderCasino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not. So seems to me paying OT, which is an extra $3.63 an hour based on state minimum wage is a no brainier. Based on the time, it would involve the 7-3 dealers to work about 2 hours of OT. Manager did say cannot close a ctaps game in the middle of a roll.
Maybe the manager can sense that you are on the cusp of finding an edge to beat the game , so he closes your table out of fear.
Quote: michael99000Maybe the manager can sense that you are on the cusp of finding an edge to beat the game , so he closes your table out of fear.
That's it. lol
Quote: billryanWhen I first moved to Vegas, I was surprised some local bars stay open 24/7.
Several bartenders told me that it was because the bar didn't own their own gambling machines. I took it to mean the state mandated them to stay open but now think it was the game leasing companies that insist on that.
One of my companies leases slots to bars and we do not make them stay open 24/7. Our requirement is that someone must be there to guard andprotect the machines. Some bars will just hire a security person to sit there all night. When there is hundreds of thousands of dollars in the machines we want them protected.
Quote: VegasriderCasino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not. So seems to me paying OT, which is an extra $3.63 an hour based on state minimum wage is a no brainier. Based on the time, it would involve the 7-3 dealers to work about 2 hours of OT. Manager did say cannot close a ctaps game in the middle of a roll.
There is no chance the price per shuffler is $1400/day/machine. I don't know the actual price, but no one would pay that. Perhaps $1400/month. You're talking about automating a process they pay dealers $10/hr to do.
Quote: beachbumbabsThere is no chance the price per shuffler is $1400/day/machine. I don't know the actual price, but no one would pay that. Perhaps $1400/month. You're talking about automating a process they pay dealers $10/hr to do.
That's what I have been told by one of the managers, I'm sure contracts vary by casino. I'm sure they cannot buy the shuffling machines, they must lease them. Same goes for the poker rooms, they lesse the machines. I know the poker manager well, I'm sure I can verify what the cost is, but it may differ depending on the games.
Quote: VegasriderThat's what I have been told by one of the managers, I'm sure contracts vary by casino. I'm sure they cannot buy the shuffling machines, they must lease them. Same goes for the poker rooms, they lesse the machines. I know the poker manager well, I'm sure I can verify what the cost is, but it may differ depending on the games.
I paid $170 a month lease for my 6 deck shufflers, but that was a really good deal I think. Most places probably pay $250 - $400, depending on the size of the casino. Nobody pays $1,200.
ZCore13
Quote: VegasriderCasino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not.
That's over a half million dollars a year to RENT one shuffle machine. No way those numbers are accurate. Maybe $1400 a month.
Quote: TigerWuThat's over a half million dollars a year to RENT one shuffle machine. No way those numbers are accurate. Maybe $1400 a month.
Yeah, probably per month, not day. But I will still ask.
Quote: VegasriderYeah, probably per month, not day. But I will still ask.
Nope, not per month either.
ZCore13
Quote: VegasriderCasino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not. So seems to me paying OT, which is an extra $3.63 an hour based on state minimum wage is a no brainier. Based on the time, it would involve the 7-3 dealers to work about 2 hours of OT. Manager did say cannot close a ctaps game in the middle of a roll.
$42,000/month for a shuffle machine???
No way. Not even close. I’ve seen pricing at around $10,000-$12,000 for professional machines used by casinos. There’s no way they rent it for $42,000/month.
Quote: VegasriderThat's what I have been told by one of the managers, I'm sure contracts vary by casino. I'm sure they cannot buy the shuffling machines, they must lease them. Same goes for the poker rooms, they lesse the machines. I know the poker manager well, I'm sure I can verify what the cost is, but it may differ depending on the games.
If a manager is telling you $1,400/day or close to $500,000/year to rent 1 shuffle machine....note to self, never ever ask this manager another question about anything beyond "where can I get a cup of coffee"?
It's almost hard to believe a casino manager can be this clueless. Are you 100% sure you heard it right?
Quote: DeMangoYo, TD. $400 a month, last report.
For live poker,, the table game machines are much more sophisticated and have multi use, crossing over to many or all the various table games offered so i'm guessing its going to cost much more. Hard to believe $1400 a day but $1400 per month maybe.
