Vegasrider
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February 22nd, 2020 at 6:04:10 PM permalink
In Nevada, does a pit boss have the right to close a table game while there are still players playing? I was surprised to be told that my game (DJ Wild) will be closing in 20 minutes due to not having enough (graveyard) dealers. The real reason they are too cheap to pay OT.
jjjoooggg
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February 22nd, 2020 at 7:12:57 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

In Nevada, does a pit boss have the right to close a table game while there are still players playing? I was surprised to be told that my game (DJ Wild) will be closing in 20 minutes due to not having enough (graveyard) dealers. The real reason they are too cheap to pay OT.



Ive witnessed this. I think the casino loses money unless its a higher min. Table.
Born in Texas and lived in Texas my whole life.
TDVegas
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February 22nd, 2020 at 8:36:13 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

In Nevada, does a pit boss have the right to close a table game while there are still players playing? I was surprised to be told that my game (DJ Wild) will be closing in 20 minutes due to not having enough (graveyard) dealers. The real reason they are too cheap to pay OT.


I would guess they can do anything they want....within law.
smoothgrh
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February 22nd, 2020 at 11:36:09 PM permalink
I forgot the exact details, but at the Peppermill Reno, a pit boss stated the intention to close a pai gow tiles table. I can't remember if they closed it when players were done, or if the time was something like 1 a.m.
Last edited by: smoothgrh on Feb 23, 2020
Vegasrider
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February 23rd, 2020 at 3:59:49 AM permalink
I can see combining tables but to close the only game while there are multiple players was puzzling. Even with OT, the table most likely will make money. Fortunately they never closed it since another game broke. But if they were going to close it, I was going to purposely walk out and go home, leaving my $1200 on the table. The pit boss would had to wait thinking I would come back and would had to finally fill out paperwork to send my chips to the cage.
Zcore13
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February 23rd, 2020 at 8:11:03 AM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

I can see combining tables but to close the only game while there are multiple players was puzzling. Even with OT, the table most likely will make money. Fortunately they never closed it since another game broke. But if they were going to close it, I was going to purposely walk out and go home, leaving my $1200 on the table. The pit boss would had to wait thinking I would come back and would had to finally fill out paperwork to send my chips to the cage.



Wow, that's really tough of you. You would have shown them.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
billryan
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February 23rd, 2020 at 8:55:14 AM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

I can see combining tables but to close the only game while there are multiple players was puzzling. Even with OT, the table most likely will make money. Fortunately they never closed it since another game broke. But if they were going to close it, I was going to purposely walk out and go home, leaving my $1200 on the table. The pit boss would had to wait thinking I would come back and would had to finally fill out paperwork to send my chips to the cage.



Better yet, leave $1200 on multiple tables. That will show them.
My Grandma used to tell of a time the circus came to town and after the parade, some elephant dung was in front of the house. When no one from the circus would clean it, she set off on a campaign of revenge.
Long story short, she bought front row seats and didn't use them. That certainly showed those suckers.
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AZDuffman
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February 23rd, 2020 at 8:57:25 AM permalink
I do not see why they would not be allowed to do so. How is that different from closing any service? Restaurants in casinos close. A shoe shine stand in a casino could close at off hours. They gave polite notice they had to close the table, what is the issue?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
rsactuary
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February 23rd, 2020 at 10:33:41 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I do not see why they would not be allowed to do so. How is that different from closing any service? Restaurants in casinos close. A shoe shine stand in a casino could close at off hours. They gave polite notice they had to close the table, what is the issue?



I agree. They are offering a game. They can choose not to offer it at any time. It's really no different than their ability to stop accepting your bets if they choose.
Vegasrider
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February 23rd, 2020 at 12:11:30 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I do not see why they would not be allowed to do so. How is that different from closing any service? Restaurants in casinos close. A shoe shine stand in a casino could close at off hours. They gave polite notice they had to close the table, what is the issue?



Casino is 24hr. Gaming is different from food service. Here in Nev, when they have pool parties or cover charges to areas where there is gaming, you cannot be stopped from playing. You bypass the long line to enter and dont pay a cover if you say you are there to play. I know this scenario is a bit different. But to your point, if they decide to close a game while there are still players playing, then they need to close EVERY game.

I have to contact gaming or try to see if there is anything mentioned in our NRS statue
DRich
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February 23rd, 2020 at 1:18:21 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Casino is 24hr. Gaming is different from food service. Here in Nev, when they have pool parties or cover charges to areas where there is gaming, you cannot be stopped from playing. You bypass the long line to enter and dont pay a cover if you say you are there to play. I know this scenario is a bit different. But to your point, if they decide to close a game while there are still players playing, then they need to close EVERY game.

I have to contact gaming or try to see if there is anything mentioned in our NRS statue



In Nevada they can close a game at anytime. I have been at tables multiple times where they closed them.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Zcore13
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February 23rd, 2020 at 1:25:07 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Casino is 24hr. Gaming is different from food service. Here in Nev, when they have pool parties or cover charges to areas where there is gaming, you cannot be stopped from playing. You bypass the long line to enter and dont pay a cover if you say you are there to play. I know this scenario is a bit different. But to your point, if they decide to close a game while there are still players playing, then they need to close EVERY game.

I have to contact gaming or try to see if there is anything mentioned in our NRS statue



I'm pretty sure you are wrong. I know for sure that's the case in Az. Games can be opened and closed based on staffing and business needs. It's more than just a dealer that is needed to keep an extra table or pit open. And if you're not playing at a certain minimum it's not worth keeping it open.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Deucekies
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February 23rd, 2020 at 1:54:40 PM permalink
I've had to kick players off a table before. Sometimes it's due to staffing, sometimes it's due to other factors. Spill on the table, shuffler won't work, camera malfunction, etc.

I'll agree with the OP that it seems odd to close the only DJW table. I would have sooner closed whatever blackjack table had the smallest action. Presumably I've got several of those open.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
AZDuffman
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February 23rd, 2020 at 3:49:30 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Casino is 24hr. Gaming is different from food service. Here in Nev, when they have pool parties or cover charges to areas where there is gaming, you cannot be stopped from playing. You bypass the long line to enter and dont pay a cover if you say you are there to play. I know this scenario is a bit different. But to your point, if they decide to close a game while there are still players playing, then they need to close EVERY game.

I have to contact gaming or try to see if there is anything mentioned in our NRS statue



That doesn't make sense. EVERY game? Why? I see not one good reason.

Staffing is made on projections. Sometimes people call off. Either way, staffing can be short and adjustments need to be made. They were extra polite in giving notice. That lets players who have a goal or are working their own betting patterns to finish. No matter what it was polite. Like giving notice limits are going up. By your logic there, limits need to go up on ALL tables, no?

You were playing a game and they had to make a staffing adjustment. Big deal, Get on with your life. Find something important to be upset about.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
bobbartop
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February 23rd, 2020 at 3:52:03 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

But if they were going to close it, I was going to purposely walk out and go home, leaving my $1200 on the table. The pit boss would had to wait thinking I would come back and would had to finally fill out paperwork to send my chips to the cage.




Gosh, get a life. That's ridiculous.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Lovecomps
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February 23rd, 2020 at 6:28:35 PM permalink
Well, like a casino, the aircraft carriers that I served on operated 24/7 and our unlicensed poker table kept getting shut down all the time :-). At least there was no rake.
The best things in life are not free.
Vegasrider
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February 23rd, 2020 at 7:25:49 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Gosh, get a life. That's ridiculous.



Particular shift manager does everything he can to drive away my action. He has threatened to back me off on UTH because I was helping other players how to play. He said the casino was better off without me for a couple of reasons, I was a winning player and I was helping others win. No different than someone giving advice in a BJ game. Fine, I stopped giving advice. I stopped playing UTH and transitioned to DJ. Iím having better success playing DJ than UTH. Now heís accusing me of exposing my cards and slowing down the game. He should watch me play before accusing me of any wrong doing. Iíve been a life long poker player, itís a habit for me not to expose my cards. And I always sit at 3rd base so itís really difficult to see what I have. Every other player shares, expose or even shows their happy winning hands. Many players pinch their cards then arrange their hand in whatever order, that slows down the game. It takes me one second for me to read my hand and I either bet or donít play. Iím literally the fastest DJ player in Reno. I donít waste time sorting my cards. Now since I sit at 3rd base, my hand is 1st to be turned over by the dealer if played so once everyone has acted I usually just spread my cards face up and I bet or donít bet. Iím actually saving time by doing something that the dealer has to do anyways. I donít know howís thatís exposing the cards since everyone else has either folded or already bet. Iím expediting the game. But again, no big deal, I can just turn my hand face down and let the dealer turn it over.

When I play live poker I love really fast dealers who can pitch the cards. I hate slow dealers, or worst slow dealers who talk. I donít mind dealers who talk as long as they keep the game going. Players who play slow also irritates me. This is my mindset playing the table games, I like to play fast. So LOL on the manager saying Iím slowing down the game.
Zcore13
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February 23rd, 2020 at 8:07:02 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Particular shift manager does everything he can to drive away my action. He has threatened to back me off on UTH because I was helping other players how to play. He said the casino was better off without me for a couple of reasons, I was a winning player and I was helping others win. No different than someone giving advice in a BJ game. Fine, I stopped giving advice. I stopped playing UTH and transitioned to DJ. Iím having better success playing DJ than UTH. Now heís accusing me of exposing my cards and slowing down the game. He should watch me play before accusing me of any wrong doing. Iíve been a life long poker player, itís a habit for me not to expose my cards. And I always sit at 3rd base so itís really difficult to see what I have. Every other player shares, expose or even shows their happy winning hands. Many players pinch their cards then arrange their hand in whatever order, that slows down the game. It takes me one second for me to read my hand and I either bet or donít play. Iím literally the fastest DJ player in Reno. I donít waste time sorting my cards. Now since I sit at 3rd base, my hand is 1st to be turned over by the dealer if played so once everyone has acted I usually just spread my cards face up and I bet or donít bet. Iím actually saving time by doing something that the dealer has to do anyways. I donít know howís thatís exposing the cards since everyone else has either folded or already bet. Iím expediting the game. But again, no big deal, I can just turn my hand face down and let the dealer turn it over.

When I play live poker I love really fast dealers who can pitch the cards. I hate slow dealers, or worst slow dealers who talk. I donít mind dealers who talk as long as they keep the game going. Players who play slow also irritates me. This is my mindset playing the table games, I like to play fast. So LOL on the manager saying Iím slowing down the game.



There's just too much here to laugh at, but the funniest is that you think you can decide the rules you play by. You think since you are last to play and first to be settled that you can play them face up. Have you ever thought to ask the people that are really in charge if that's ok? Have you ever thought that dealers can get written up by surveillance for allowing players to do that?

You sound like someone I would just kick out rather than have to deal with you. Not worth the trouble to everyone.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
RoyalBJ
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February 23rd, 2020 at 8:16:21 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

In Nevada, does a pit boss have the right to close a table game while there are still players playing? I was surprised to be told that my game (DJ Wild) will be closing in 20 minutes due to not having enough (graveyard) dealers. The real reason they are too cheap to pay OT.



When U said "my game (DJ Wild) ", I thought you were the owner/developer of the game. Actually, you were just playing the casino's game. It can shut down its game any time it wants. Can a restaurant tell its customers that it's closing because the cook wants to go home? I think YES.
Minty
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February 23rd, 2020 at 9:23:06 PM permalink
Yeah, casinos can shut down games with players. Like it or not, they are a business and can do what's in their best interest. Without being there, it's hard to tell if the shift manager is unnecessarily singling you out to criticize you for other things or if you're causing issues. The game will open again eventually, better to just accept it, appreciate that it was open and move on.
"Just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I won't have to defend myself someday." -Chip Reese
bobbartop
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February 23rd, 2020 at 9:25:20 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Particular shift manager does everything he can to drive away my action. He has threatened to back me off on UTH because I was helping other players how to play. He said the casino was better off without me for a couple of reasons, I was a winning player and I was helping others win. No different than someone giving advice in a BJ game. Fine, I stopped giving advice. I stopped playing UTH and transitioned to DJ. Iím having better success playing DJ than UTH. Now heís accusing me of exposing my cards and slowing down the game. He should watch me play before accusing me of any wrong doing. Iíve been a life long poker player, itís a habit for me not to expose my cards. And I always sit at 3rd base so itís really difficult to see what I have. Every other player shares, expose or even shows their happy winning hands. Many players pinch their cards then arrange their hand in whatever order, that slows down the game. It takes me one second for me to read my hand and I either bet or donít play. Iím literally the fastest DJ player in Reno. I donít waste time sorting my cards. Now since I sit at 3rd base, my hand is 1st to be turned over by the dealer if played so once everyone has acted I usually just spread my cards face up and I bet or donít bet. Iím actually saving time by doing something that the dealer has to do anyways. I donít know howís thatís exposing the cards since everyone else has either folded or already bet. Iím expediting the game. But again, no big deal, I can just turn my hand face down and let the dealer turn it over.

When I play live poker I love really fast dealers who can pitch the cards. I hate slow dealers, or worst slow dealers who talk. I donít mind dealers who talk as long as they keep the game going. Players who play slow also irritates me. This is my mindset playing the table games, I like to play fast. So LOL on the manager saying Iím slowing down the game.




Omg, seek help. What an attitude. I bet you're a barrel of laughs in a poker game. Sadly, I'm quite sure there is nothing that will help you, nothing that will change your view of the gambling world. It must have taken years and years to get this bitter.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Vegasrider
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February 24th, 2020 at 7:50:19 AM permalink
Opening ganes I understand, they have to wait until a game breaks down or a new shift of dealers begin. I have been playing DJ about 20 hours a week for the past few months, usually around 8-10 hr a session beginning Fri and Sat nights so my session carries over into grave which is the shift manager who seems to have an issue with me. By graveyard, I often have accumulated a massive amount of chips so maybe if he had to close a game, it would be a game that most likely would bring a negative value during his shift. I was looking around at the other games and I was just wondering why my game? I don't like chipping up to keep a small stack either, I have goals. I go for wiping out their red and green chips out of the rack. If they need them back because they have new players or simply run out, I'll chip up. Otherwise I will build my wall of chips just like when I play live poker.

But as one member mentioned, and ts a great point, I don't want the dealer to get written up as surveillance could misinterpret based on what I did by me doing my last action flop.

I hope this thread brought some amusement to some, we are all.different and have different mindsets when it comes to gambling. I'm a very competitive person and always looking for an edge to help beat the game.
Gandler
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February 24th, 2020 at 7:54:24 AM permalink
I don't know the law in Nevada, but I am sure they can close any table at any time (as long as its not in the middle of a play).
I see this happen all over, its a reality when playing at 24/7 casinos at odd times, shifts change, dealers call out or dont show, so tables get closed.

Its pretty common.

Are they too cheap to pay OT? Maybe, or maybe the dealer just does not want to be forced into OT?
billryan
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February 24th, 2020 at 8:05:29 AM permalink
When I first moved to Vegas, I was surprised some local bars stay open 24/7.
Several bartenders told me that it was because the bar didn't own their own gambling machines. I took it to mean the state mandated them to stay open but now think it was the game leasing companies that insist on that.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Vegasrider
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February 24th, 2020 at 8:41:32 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

When I first moved to Vegas, I was surprised some local bars stay open 24/7.
Several bartenders told me that it was because the bar didn't own their own gambling machines. I took it to mean the state mandated them to stay open but now think it was the game leasing companies that insist on that.



Casino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not. So seems to me paying OT, which is an extra $3.63 an hour based on state minimum wage is a no brainier. Based on the time, it would involve the 7-3 dealers to work about 2 hours of OT. Manager did say cannot close a ctaps game in the middle of a roll.
michael99000
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February 24th, 2020 at 8:43:28 AM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Casino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not. So seems to me paying OT, which is an extra $3.63 an hour based on state minimum wage is a no brainier. Based on the time, it would involve the 7-3 dealers to work about 2 hours of OT. Manager did say cannot close a ctaps game in the middle of a roll.



Maybe the manager can sense that you are on the cusp of finding an edge to beat the game , so he closes your table out of fear.
bobbartop
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February 24th, 2020 at 8:50:21 AM permalink
Quote: michael99000

Maybe the manager can sense that you are on the cusp of finding an edge to beat the game , so he closes your table out of fear.



That's it. lol
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
DRich
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February 24th, 2020 at 9:33:57 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

When I first moved to Vegas, I was surprised some local bars stay open 24/7.
Several bartenders told me that it was because the bar didn't own their own gambling machines. I took it to mean the state mandated them to stay open but now think it was the game leasing companies that insist on that.



One of my companies leases slots to bars and we do not make them stay open 24/7. Our requirement is that someone must be there to guard andprotect the machines. Some bars will just hire a security person to sit there all night. When there is hundreds of thousands of dollars in the machines we want them protected.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
beachbumbabs
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February 24th, 2020 at 9:39:24 AM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Casino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not. So seems to me paying OT, which is an extra $3.63 an hour based on state minimum wage is a no brainier. Based on the time, it would involve the 7-3 dealers to work about 2 hours of OT. Manager did say cannot close a ctaps game in the middle of a roll.



There is no chance the price per shuffler is $1400/day/machine. I don't know the actual price, but no one would pay that. Perhaps $1400/month. You're talking about automating a process they pay dealers $10/hr to do.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Vegasrider
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February 24th, 2020 at 10:56:40 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

There is no chance the price per shuffler is $1400/day/machine. I don't know the actual price, but no one would pay that. Perhaps $1400/month. You're talking about automating a process they pay dealers $10/hr to do.



That's what I have been told by one of the managers, I'm sure contracts vary by casino. I'm sure they cannot buy the shuffling machines, they must lease them. Same goes for the poker rooms, they lesse the machines. I know the poker manager well, I'm sure I can verify what the cost is, but it may differ depending on the games.
Zcore13
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February 24th, 2020 at 11:31:56 AM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

That's what I have been told by one of the managers, I'm sure contracts vary by casino. I'm sure they cannot buy the shuffling machines, they must lease them. Same goes for the poker rooms, they lesse the machines. I know the poker manager well, I'm sure I can verify what the cost is, but it may differ depending on the games.



I paid $170 a month lease for my 6 deck shufflers, but that was a really good deal I think. Most places probably pay $250 - $400, depending on the size of the casino. Nobody pays $1,200.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
TigerWu
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February 24th, 2020 at 12:36:46 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Casino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not.



That's over a half million dollars a year to RENT one shuffle machine. No way those numbers are accurate. Maybe $1400 a month.
Vegasrider
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February 24th, 2020 at 1:33:34 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

That's over a half million dollars a year to RENT one shuffle machine. No way those numbers are accurate. Maybe $1400 a month.



Yeah, probably per month, not day. But I will still ask.
Zcore13
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February 24th, 2020 at 3:15:19 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Yeah, probably per month, not day. But I will still ask.



Nope, not per month either.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
TDVegas
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February 24th, 2020 at 5:50:15 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Casino also don't own certain games, like DJ or UTH. They have to pay some royalties or lease on the game
Same for the shuffling machines, I think they said $1400 a day for each machine whether you use them or not. So seems to me paying OT, which is an extra $3.63 an hour based on state minimum wage is a no brainier. Based on the time, it would involve the 7-3 dealers to work about 2 hours of OT. Manager did say cannot close a ctaps game in the middle of a roll.


$42,000/month for a shuffle machine???

No way. Not even close. Iíve seen pricing at around $10,000-$12,000 for professional machines used by casinos. Thereís no way they rent it for $42,000/month.
Vegasrider
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February 25th, 2020 at 7:57:35 AM permalink
Just spoke to the poker rroom manager last night, he said you can buy them but he said he pays $400 a month for the machine which includes service.. but poker shuffling machines are much simpler as table games machines are much more complex as you can program the machines to deal every game that is offered. So if thats the case, the table game shufflers could cost much more, I will rtry to find out the cost.
DRich
DRich
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February 25th, 2020 at 8:03:14 AM permalink
I know we used to pay around $1,200 amonth for six deck shufflers many years ago,
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
TDVegas
TDVegas
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February 25th, 2020 at 8:56:47 AM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

That's what I have been told by one of the managers, I'm sure contracts vary by casino. I'm sure they cannot buy the shuffling machines, they must lease them. Same goes for the poker rooms, they lesse the machines. I know the poker manager well, I'm sure I can verify what the cost is, but it may differ depending on the games.


If a manager is telling you $1,400/day or close to $500,000/year to rent 1 shuffle machine....note to self, never ever ask this manager another question about anything beyond "where can I get a cup of coffee"?

It's almost hard to believe a casino manager can be this clueless. Are you 100% sure you heard it right?
DeMango
DeMango
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February 25th, 2020 at 9:05:40 AM permalink
Yo, TD. $400 a month, last report.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Vegasrider
Vegasrider
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February 25th, 2020 at 12:24:07 PM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Yo, TD. $400 a month, last report.



For live poker,, the table game machines are much more sophisticated and have multi use, crossing over to many or all the various table games offered so i'm guessing its going to cost much more. Hard to believe $1400 a day but $1400 per month maybe.
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