New Game: “Heart Attack” rules
*** I originally called it a Trick Taking game but it may not be the perfect description. It has similarities to games like UNO and crazy 8s as well. If only it was a casino version of the actual card game Heart Attack AKA SlapJack
I will post the rules as closely as I can. Will get pics of the rack card later. I typed this on a long car ride on my phone so bare with me. Please ask any questions. When this post is roughly 5 hours old I will be on for a long time to check in regularly
There is only one deck!
1. Place equal bets on the Ante and Hearts bet with optional (and separate) Attack bet. $5 min for ante and Hearts, $1 min for Attack
2. Each player and the dealer get 3 cards. Players look at their cards. The goal for the player is to lay all 3 cards. Doing this will win 1:1 on the anti. Failing will lose both the anti and hearts bet. The attack bet is evaluated separately.
3. The dealer will reveal their first card. Like any trick taking game Players lay cards (place them face up on layout) by following suit if possible. **Rank does not matter. Hearts are wild and this works both ways. You may lay a heart any time and you may lay any card on a dealer’s heart. You may also match rank instead. Once everyone has laid their first card if possible, the second card is revealed etc. Players will either lay all 3 cards (win!) or not (lose)
**rank doesn’t matter in the terms of general trick taking games. You do not need to follow suit by playing a higher card. 4D may be laid for a KD. Rank DOES matter because you can play a 4D on a 4C and for the attack bet you can use it to get pair, trips or straight (although these hands must have a Heart in them as well)
Anti always pays 1:1 or loses. Play all 3 cards to win or don’t to lose. Hearts bet pays based on the total # of hearts in player and dealer cards (x/6). Player MUST play all 3 cards for this to pay otherwise lose for not laying all 3. If player lays all 3:
0,1,2 hearts push,
3 1:1,
4 3:1
5 10:1
6 250:1 (6 means both player and dealer were dealt 3 hearts)
Optional Attack bet pays based only on player’s dealt 3 card band. It is a separate bet and pays whether or not all 3 cards can be laid:
2 hearts 1:1
1 pair with a heart (10H 10S, not 10C 10S) 2:1
Straight with 1 or 2 hearts (4H 5C 6S, not 4C 5D 6S) 6:1
3 hearts 10:1
3 oK with 1 heart 40:1 (4H 4D 4S, not 4D 4S 4C)
Straight flush Hearts 100:1
Royal flush hearts 250:1
* I didn’t have a chance to clarify/ find out if you will get 4:1 for a straight with 2 hearts in it. I would assume not.
Here are some example hands: Player hand 6H 7C 5C Dealer reveals cards 1/round player’s right to left so x x10H.
All players can lay any card when the dealer flips a heart. Save your hearts and lay something else. IMO lay a 10 if you have it because it’s less likely to match later. Say the 7C. Next dealer card is X 4D 10H.
Now we MUST lay our 6H because we can not follow the suit D and we do not have a 4. In order to win the anti bet we must lay our final card 5C. The dealer must have any Heart, any Club, or a 5 for us to play it.
Dealer flips 2D. We can not play our final card 5C because it does not match in rank or suit and the dealer did not flip a heart. Lose ANTI and Hearts bet because we did not lay all 3. Win 6:1 for the attack bet for being dealt a straight w/ a heart in it
NEW HAND: 7C 4H KS vs X X 5C
1. May lay 7C or 4H. Save hearts for when you can’t follow suit. Lay 7C
2. 4H KS vs X 10H 5C. We can lay any card on a heart. If we lay the KS we will automatically win the hand because we can lay our final 4H on any card. Lay KS
3. 4H vs 4D 10H 5C. Lay our final card 4H on 4D. We win the 1:1 on anti for laying all 3 cards. Push Hearts for 2 hearts total our 4H + dealer 10H lose attack bet for no qualifying hand
New Hand: 2C 6H 10H vs X X QH
1. If the dealers first card allows us to play the 2C then we can instantly lay all 3 cards b/c our other 2 hearts can go on anything. Lucky it’s a QH. Hand has good potential for Hearts bet if dealer can flip more hearts!. Lay 2C
2. 6H 10H vs x AS QH lay either card doesn’t matter.
3 6H vs JH AS QH yes another Heart! We automatically lay our 3rd card and get paid 1:1 anti, 3:1 hearts for 4 total hearts and 2:1 for attack bet for being dealt 2 Hearts (NO straight flush payout because it is PLAYERS CARDS ONLY)
Modify previous hand slightly. If dealers first card was not a QD. forced to play our heart. Middle card AS play our second heart. Now we have just a 2C. To win Heart and anti the final dealer card must be a 2, a C or a Heart.
Instant loss hand JC KS 4S vs dealer X X 3D
We can not lay any cards on 3D because we don’t match suit, rank or have a wild Heart. Lose all bets immediately.
In general an all black hand is bad. You can still get lucky if the dealer flips a heart or happens to match a rank or your suits. Laying 3 black won’t pay anything except the 1;1 anti unless the dealer has 3 hearts, then Heart bet pays 1:1. This is true for any hand where you don’t have any hearts.
A hand with all hearts is an instant win hand. You will be able to lay all 3 no matter what. At this point you are getting 1:1 for the ante and Hearts, and 10:1 on the attack (if you play it). Now you are hoping for the dealer to flip hearts as well. If he flips one you increase from 1:1->3:1 a second heart in his hand is a second 10:1 payout and if he flips that lovely and rare 3rd heart for a total of 6 between the 2 of you, 250:1.
Please ask any questions and I will do my best! To ask about specific hands I will assume the dealer cards are revealed right to left as they are at the table.
Quote: GBAMLONG POST: Finally played the newest game at Foxwoods! It’s a trick taking game called Heart Attack by My Box Gaming. TL;DR I really liked it. After about 5 hands I understood the rules. A few folks took longer. Saw one person hit a $500 hand. My biggest win was about $75 in one hand. Not crowded at all. MANY people sat at the table thinking it was 3 card poker. The TV post looks the very similar. My GF does not like trick taking games really ever so she wasn’t a huge fan. It is a nice change of pace though. I REALLY like hoping for a dealer’s cards to be good and rooting for them rather than despising every flip.
I will post the rules as closely as I can. Will get pics of the rack card later. I typed this on a long car ride on my phone so bare with me. Please ask any questions. When this post is roughly 5 hours old I will be on for a long time to check in regularly
There is only one deck!
1. Place equal bets on the Ante and Hearts bet with optional (and separate) Attack bet. $5 min.
2. Each player and the dealer get 3 cards. Players look at their cards. The goal for the player is to lay all 3 cards. Doing this will win 1:1 on the anti. Failing will lose both the anti and hearts bet. The attack bet is evaluated separately.
3. The dealer will reveal their first card. Like any trick taking game Players lay cards (place them face up on layout) by following suit if possible. Rank does not matter. Hearts are wild and this works both ways. You may lay a heart any time and you may lay any card on a dealer’s heart. You may also match rank instead. Once everyone has laid their first card if possible, the second card is revealed etc. Players will either lay all 3 cards (win!) or not (lose)
Anti always pays 1:1 or loses. Play all 3 cards to win or don’t to lose. Hearts bet pays based on the total # of hearts in player and dealer cards (x/6). Player MUST play all 3 cards for this to pay otherwise lose for not laying all 3. If player lays all 3:
0,1,2 hearts push,
3 1:1,
4 3:1
5 10:1
6 250:1 (6 means both player and dealer were dealt 3 hearts)
Optional Attack bet pays based only on player’s dealt 3 card band. It is a separate bet and pays whether or not all 3 cards can be laid:
2 hearts 1:1
1 pair with a heart (10H 10S, not 10C 10S) 2:1
Straight with 1 or 2 hearts (4H 5C 6S, not 4C 5D 6S) 6:1
3 hearts 10:1
3 oK with 1 heart 40:1 (4H 4D 4S, not 4D 4S 4C)
Straight flush Hearts 100:1
Royal flush hearts 250:1
Here are some example hands: Player hand 6H 7C 5C Dealer reveals cards 1/round player’s right to left so x x10H.
All players can lay any card when the dealer flips a heart. Save your hearts and lay something else. IMO lay a 10 if you have it because it’s less likely to match later. Say the 7C. Next dealer card is X 4D 10H.
Now we MUST lay our 6H because we can not follow the suit D and we do not have a 4. In order to win the anti bet we must lay our final card 5C. The dealer must have any Heart, any Club, or a 5 for us to play it.
Dealer flips 2D. We can not play our final card 5C because it does not match in rank or suit and the dealer did not flip a heart. Lose ANTI and Hearts bet because we did not lay all 3. Win 6:1 for the attack bet for being dealt a straight w/ a heart in it
NEW HAND: 7C 4H KS vs X X 5C
1. May lay 7C or 4H. Save hearts for when you can’t follow suit. Lay 7C
2. 4H KS vs X 10H 5C. We can lay any card on a heart. If we lay the KS we will automatically win the hand because we can lay our final 4H on any card. Lay KS
3. 4H vs 4D 10H 5C. Lay our final card 4H on 4D. We win the 1:1 on anti for laying all 3 cards. Push Hearts for 2 hearts total our 4H + dealer 10H lose attack bet for no qualifying hand
New Hand: 2C 6H 10H vs X X QH
1. If the dealers first card allows us to play the 2C then we can instantly lay all 3 cards b/c our other 2 hearts can go on anything. Lucky it’s a QH. Hand has good potential for Hearts bet if dealer can flip more hearts!. Lay 2C
2. 6H 10H vs x AS QH lay either card doesn’t matter.
3 6H vs JH AS QH yes another Heart! We automatically lay our 3rd card and get paid 1:1 anti, 3:1 hearts for 4 total hearts and 2:1 for attack bet for being dealt 2 Hearts (NO straight flush payout because it is PLAYERS CARDS ONLY)
Modify previous hand slightly. If dealers first card was not a QD. forced to play our heart. Middle card AS play our second heart. Now we have just a 2C. To win Heart and anti the final dealer card must be a 2, a C or a Heart.
Instant loss hand JC KS 4S vs dealer X X 3D
We can not lay any cards on 3D because we don’t match suit, rank or have a wild Heart. Lose all bets immediately.
In general an all black hand is bad. You can still get lucky if the dealer flips a heart or 2, or happens to match a rank or your suits. Laying 3 black won’t pay anything except the 1;1 anti unless the dealer has 3 red cards, then Heart bet pays 1:1
Please ask any questions and I will do my best! To ask about specific hands I will assume the dealer cards are revealed right to left as they are at the table.
Finally someone finds a way to get the game UNO placed in a casino
Quote: michael99000Finally someone finds a way to get the game UNO placed in a casino
Yeah thanks for writing that. OP called it a trick-taking game and that confused me.
Most hands you bet 3 units to win one. I forgot to mention that there is a progressive as well, based on your 3 card dealt hand. It pays $30 for a straight (no heart requirement) and increases from there. Sorry I can’t remember much of what the middle looked like Major jackpot was at $9,000 w/ 5000 envy for a QKA of Spades
Sounds kind of fun. Certainly different. I would probably have to play it before I knew if I liked it.
Kind of a confusion of values in it. rank doesn't matter, except when it does to pair a card, and again to make a straight. Odd bit of poker hands mixed with stuff in the Attack bet, and some obvious better hands left out, maybe to make the paytable work. I think players may have a tough time sorting out what they've gotten, but maybe not.
Best of luck to the inventors. I'll be very interested in the rack card when you get the chance to post it.
Quote: beachbumbabsThanks very much for the detailed write-up, GBAM!
Sounds kind of fun. Certainly different. I would probably have to play it before I knew if I liked it.
Kind of a confusion of values in it. rank doesn't matter, except when it does to pair a card, and again to make a straight. Odd bit of poker hands mixed with stuff in the Attack bet, and some obvious better hands left out, maybe to make the paytable work. I think players may have a tough time sorting out what they've gotten, but maybe not.
Best of luck to the inventors. I'll be very interested in the rack card when you get the chance to post it.
No problem! Thanks!
I posted a link, or tried, it won’t let me. To a demo a few posts up.
As far as rank mattering or not, I just wanted to clarify because some trick taking games require to follow suit AND play higher if possible. 4C must be followed by any club higher than 4 or any rank trump suit. In this game rank “doesn’t matter”
I consider myself to be a bit thick and I picked it up but some folks struggled. Dealers were basically playing for them. It doesn’t REALLY matter what order you play your cards except you should always try to have a heart as your final card so you can always go out. Most hands basically come down to a 50/50 shot to play your two non heart cards and hoping you saved the right one.
Example: 5H 6D 9S vs dealer showing 2H. Try to Save the heart for last Do you play the 6D now and hope the second card to be a 9 or S or H, or play the 9 and hope the next card is 6 D H I picked wrong a few times.
As for knowing what you’ve got, once you understand where the 2 pay tables line up it’s not too tricky. One thing I think they should’ve done is placed the Hearts Payout table on the right side next to the Hearts bet. Instead they have the attack and Hearts pay tables stacked vertically next to the anti bet. So it’s not immediately obvious which spot pays what, especially once you cover them with money and forget what they are called.
Quote: tringlomaneYeah thanks for writing that. OP called it a trick-taking game and that confused me.
Trick taking games are a popular and old group of card games where in general one player “leads” with any card then all other players must follow suit or play a trump card (wild suit) then the round(trick) ends and depending on the game the player gets a point, takes the cards, gets to start next etc.
Maybe you’ve played one but just didn’t know the term. Hearts, Whist, Bridge, Asshole, Spades are all trick taking games
My GF doesn’t like them because the scoring is usually complex and (hope I don’t offend anyone) they are played exclusively in retirement homes. She does like hearts though and I SUCK so bad at hearts. It does not play like this new game at all though. She was disheartened HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHkillme
Quote: GBAMTrick taking games are a popular and old group of card games where in general one player “leads” with any card then all other players must follow suit or play a trump card (wild suit) then the round(trick) ends and depending on the game the player gets a point, takes the cards, gets to start next etc.
Maybe you’ve played one but just didn’t know the term. Hearts, Whist, Bridge, Asshole, Spades are all trick taking games
I think we disagree on the definition of a "trick-taking" game. If I read the rules right, this is like a miniature game of "Uno" or "Crazy Eights". You don't "win tricks" in those games, you just try to "shed" the cards in your hand as quickly as possible. In the particular case of "Heart Attack" the goal is to play all 3 of your cards in exactly 3 turns.
The other examples you gave are trick-taking games, other than "Asshole" which is also a shedding game. The first person to exhaust their cards is the "President" for the next game, and the last person with cards remaining is the "Asshole" next game.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/card-game
Quote: tringlomaneI think we disagree on the definition of a "trick-taking" game. If I read the rules right, this is like a miniature game of "Uno" or "Crazy Eights". You don't "win tricks" in those games, you just try to "shed" the cards in your hand as quickly as possible. In the particular case of "Heart Attack" the goal is to play all 3 of your cards in exactly 3 turns.
The other examples you gave are trick-taking games, other than "Asshole" which is also a shedding game. The first person to exhaust their cards is the "President" for the next game, and the last person with cards remaining is the "Asshole" next game.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/card-game
I can see where you’re coming from. I just wanted to emphasize that it is not Poker. If it is a trick taking game it’s obviously modified to fit a casino format. I use following suit and trumps as the defining feature of a trick taking game, from wikioedia:
“The eldest hand leads to the first trick, i.e. places the first card of the trick face up in the middle of all players. The other players each follow with a single card, in the direction of play...The player who leads to a trick is usually allowed to play an arbitrary card from their hand...In many games, the following players must follow suit if they can, i.e., they must play a card of the same suit if possible”
In my opinion it’s closer to a trick taking game than not, but you are right in that there is no accumulating wins or counting rounds or anything like that. It’s the first half of a trick-taking game. Or I could say “The goal is for players to win 3 tricks against the dealer” right? The play is similar to https://wizardofodds.com/games/three-card-whist/ which is also called a trick taking game
I can see how shedding would be more accurate. I can see the ties to UNO as well and will update my OP
Quote: GBAMFor some reason my links won’t show up but there is a playable demo: http://heartattackdemo.herokuapp.com/
Most hands you bet 3 units to win one. I forgot to mention that there is a progressive as well, based on your 3 card dealt hand. It pays $30 for a straight (no heart requirement) and increases from there. Sorry I can’t remember much of what the middle looked like Major jackpot was at $9,000 w/ 5000 envy for a QKA of Spades
http://heartattackdemo.herokuapp.com/
Updated demo link. Hard to see on mobile unless you hold your phone in landscape, then it works well. No 3 digit payouts for me yet but got a couple flushes in a row. Playing $10 on ante and hearts, $5 on attack. Yo-yo-ing between +/- $100
The in real life tables have a different place for players to lay cards that look a little wonky the way they line up but Have the cards overlap diagonally by covering the top right corner of the first card down then the second
The tables also have that logo of the king with the sword. He’s kind of cute I guess. If not a little out of place next to all the other games.
The dealers are still new. And so are the pitbosses! One pitboss insisted that the Hearts bet pays no matter what. Even though we had been not playing that way for the past 35 minutes (the hearts bet only pays if you lay all 3 cards). Unfortunately this isn’t THAT a big of deal because chances are if you have more than 0,1,2 hearts you can probably get rid of your cards anyway. It just resulted in a few free pushes for me on hands when I had no hearts and dealer had 1 or 2. They still took my ante and attack
Quote: GBAMhttp://heartattackdemo.herokuapp.com/
Updated demo link. Hard to see on mobile unless you hold your phone in landscape, then it works well. No 3 digit payouts for me yet but got a couple flushes in a row. Playing $10 on ante and hearts, $5 on attack. Yo-yo-ing between +/- $100
The in real life tables have a different place for players to lay cards that look a little wonky the way they line up but Have the cards overlap diagonally by covering the top right corner of the first card down then the second
The tables also have that logo of the king with the sword. He’s kind of cute I guess. If not a little out of place next to all the other games.
The dealers are still new. And so are the pitbosses! One pitboss insisted that the Hearts bet pays no matter what. Even though we had been not playing that way for the past 35 minutes (the hearts bet only pays if you lay all 3 cards). Unfortunately this isn’t THAT a big of deal because chances are if you have more than 0,1,2 hearts you can probably get rid of your cards anyway. It just resulted in a few free pushes for me on hands when I had no hearts and dealer had 1 or 2. They still took my ante and attack
Still hoping for that rack card, now more than before. I would have to agree with the PB on this one. The Hearts bet, as nearly all bets relying on the contents of hands, are just that - regardless of the win/lose results of the play of the hand, that type of bet is usually binary. Either your hand holds the cards that qualify for a paytable, or it doesn't.
This game could have that rule in effect, where you have to shed all your cards in order for that paytable to be paid. If I were a PB just walking up on a game, I would think cards talk.
Fwiw, if any of you players were part of getting that "corrected" to make the hand fully shed before playing, what the heck were you thinking? That would be to player's advantage in a huge way!
So I'm going to go check the demo and the rules, see if they say one way or the other.
Sorry about the crease it got squirreled away.
Definitely need to win the ante bet by laying 3 cards in order to get paid hearts bet due to the second to last - point.
We did not correct the PB or dealers one way or another, we simply accepted whatever pay they gave us (as long as it was not too little following the rules on the rack) and followed whatever rules they wanted us to.
We play there often so we don’t want a reputation as difficult guests or questioning every pay out or anything. It’s just teething troubles
Happy to answer any questions about live play or weird hands. I’ll be going again later this week so I can revisit if there is anything specific we need to know
Post any pics of your big hits in the demo!
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/8cGwFgq
My attack bet pays 6:1 for a straight with 2 hearts, not 7:1 for a straight including hearts AND being dealt 2 hearts. I might at least try to ask for the extra unit if I was playing in person
Quote: beachbumbabsStill hoping for that rack card, now more than before. I would have to agree with the PB on this one. The Hearts bet, as nearly all bets relying on the contents of hands, are just that - regardless of the win/lose results of the play of the hand, that type of bet is usually binary. Either your hand holds the cards that qualify for a paytable, or it doesn't.
This game could have that rule in effect, where you have to shed all your cards in order for that paytable to be paid. If I were a PB just walking up on a game, I would think cards talk.
Fwiw, if any of you players were part of getting that "corrected" to make the hand fully shed before playing, what the heck were you thinking? That would be to player's advantage in a huge way!
So I'm going to go check the demo and the rules, see if they say one way or the other.
Ok, played the demo. You are correct - the intent is the hand only pays hearts if you shed. Good job.
I encourage everyone to play the demo. It makes things pretty clear, as the OP said.
I don't know the math. Think the HE is probably too high, but that can be adjusted in various ways if necessary. My money drained steadily even with couple good bonuses.
Game is going to play slowly with more than one strategy choice. I estimate 25-30 hph is all it will give.
People WILL be confused walking up on it. I promise. But UNO is probably in enough cardplayer backgrounds to let it succeed.
Having said all that, this game has the potential.to be a breakthrough monster hit. I wish it were mine, because they definitely have something there. Good luck to the inventors!
I started a new page on Heart Attack, but so far have only the rules done.
Question -- What would happen with these card on the Attack bet, Jc Js 2h?
Quote: Wizard...Question -- What would happen with these card on the Attack bet, Jc Js 2h?
In the demo, I see that I played Qd Qc 4h vs 5d Qs 10h. My Attack bet says, "Lose." And my Ante was paid 1 to 1, and my Hearts bet pushed.
So, for a pair to win the Attack bet, one of the pair must be heart. A hand with a pair with only a heart singleton would lose the Attack bet.
So now that I can bet money on kid's games like War and Crazy Eights, will high limit Ultimate Go Fish be hitting casinos soon?
Quote: WizardJust added an analysis of the Attack bet to my Heart Attack page (see previous post for link). Assuming the win for a pair must include a heart in the pair (as opposed to the singleton) and I didn't make a mistake, I get a house edge of 4.59%.
Do we think this game only offers the illusion of choice? Like I said earlier it often comes down to a 50/50 anyway. The only sort of strategic move I could see is always match rank if you can (without spending hearts) because it’s going to be less likely to match on a later card. And of course save hearts for the end/ only lay them if you need to
Maybe there are too few cards involved for anything to really matter?
Quote: WizardJust added an analysis of the Attack bet to my Heart Attack page (see previous post for link). Assuming the win for a pair must include a heart in the pair (as opposed to the singleton) and I didn't make a mistake, I get a house edge of 4.59%.
Might be good to make sure it’s clear that the attack bet pays regardless of whether you lay all 3 or not. As you have it now it’s falling under rule 12 which says you must lay all 3
And also clarify that the attack bet is player cards only and evaluated as soon as the cards are dealt. Some players in real life thought cards must be laid (like having to lay jc,jh to get paid for a pair) and others thought just the opposite that they have to remain in the hand.
Also in the attack pay table consider rewording “pair with a heart” to the word “include” to avoid “jc Js 2H” confusion. Apply this change to straight and 3OK as well. On the rack card they use “3oK straight and pair; must include at least one heart”
Maybe mention that the game really clears itself up after actually playing a few hands. I’m thick and I got it after 5 or so
I'm getting slightly different numbers.Quote: WizardJust added an analysis of the Attack bet to my Heart Attack page (see previous post for link). Assuming the win for a pair must include a heart in the pair (as opposed to the singleton) and I didn't make a mistake, I get a house edge of 4.59%.
| Hand | Ways | Pays | Probability | Return |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Royal | 1 | 250 | 0.000045 | 0.011312 |
| Straight Flush | 11 | 100 | 0.000498 | 0.049774 |
| Trips | 39 | 30 | 0.001765 | 0.052941 |
| Flush | 274 | 10 | 0.012398 | 0.123982 |
| Straight | 432 | 6 | 0.019548 | 0.117285 |
| Pair | 1872 | 3 | 0.084706 | 0.254118 |
| 2 Hearts | 2466 | 1 | 0.111584 | 0.111584 |
| Loser | 17005 | -1 | 0.769457 | -0.769457 |
| Total | 22100 | 1 | -0.048462 |
Also the rack card has 40 to 1 for Trips which lowers the house edge to 3.08%
Quote: ChesterDogSo, for a pair to win the Attack bet, one of the pair must be heart. A hand with a pair with only a heart singleton would lose the Attack bet.
Thank you.
Quote: mipletI'm getting slightly different numbers.
Thanks, you're right. I wasn't counting the wheel straights correctly.
- Never play a heart, unless it's your only choice.
- Given the choice of multiple non-heart cards to play, play the one with fewer outs. For any given card, the number of outs is the number of remaining cards that match in rank or suit, not counting hearts.
Here is an example:
The 3c has 13 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck and 2 non-heart threes.
The 8c has 12 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck and the 1 non-heart eight.
So, play the 8c, because it has fewer outs.
Any situations this advice doesn't cover?
Quote: WizardAny comments on the following strategy?
- Never play a heart, unless it's your only choice.
- Given the choice of multiple non-heart cards to play, play the one with fewer outs. For any given card, the number of outs is the number of remaining cards that match in rank or suit, not counting hearts.
Here is an example:
The 3c has 13 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck and 2 non-heart threes.
The 8c has 12 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck and the 1 non-heart eight.
So, play the 8c, because it has fewer outs.
Any situations this advice doesn't cover?
Bad example? 2 non-heart 8s remain.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: WizardAny comments on the following strategy?
- Never play a heart, unless it's your only choice.
- Given the choice of multiple non-heart cards to play, play the one with fewer outs. For any given card, the number of outs is the number of remaining cards that match in rank or suit, not counting hearts.
Here is an example:
The 3c has 13 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck and 2 non-heart threes.
The 8c has 12 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck and the 1 non-heart eight.
So, play the 8c, because it has fewer outs.
Any situations this advice doesn't cover?
Bad example? 2 non-heart 8s remain.
Isn’t that why he’s saying hold onto the 3? Because the last dealer card is more likely to be a 3 than an 8
The 8c has 24 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck, the 2 non-heart eights, and the 11 hearts left in the deck.
A better example would be if the first shredded card was the eight of spades, then
The 3c has 25 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck, the 2 non-heart threes, and 12 hearts left in the deck.
The 8c has 24 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck, the 1 non-heart eights, and the 12 hearts left in the deck.
(a) Hold back Hearts if you can.
(b) First trick, you have no Hearts, where first card is a Heart
- S S S (i) With As Ks Qs it doesn't matter.
- S S=D (ii) With As Ks Ad play As (to leave two ranks and two suits)
- S S D (iii) With As Ks Qd play either As or Ks (to leave two suits)
- S=D C (iv) With As Ad Kc play either As or Ad (to leave two ranks)
- S D C (v) With As Kd Qc it doesn't matter
(c) First trick, you have no Hearts, where first card is non-Heart (say As)
- S S S (i) With Ks Qs Js it doesn't matter.
- S S=D (ii) With Ks Qs Kd play Ks (to leave two different ranks)
- S S D (iii) With Ks Qs Jd play either Ks or Qs (to leave two different suits)
- S D C (iv) With Ks Qd Jc play the Spade (only one way to play)
- S D= C (v) With Ks Ad Qc (I would guess play Ks or Ad - Ks=13 outs (Kd, Kc, 11 spades), Ad=13 outs (Ac, 12 diamonds) )
- S D= C (vi) With Ks Ad Ac play Ad or Ac (Ks=13 outs (Kd, Kc, 11 spades), Ad=only 12 outs as Ac gone (12 diamonds) )
- D D C (vii) With Ad Kd Ac play Ad (to leave two different suits and ranks)
- D D C (viii) With Kd Qd Ac play Clubs (only one way to play)
- D D D (ix) With Ad Kd Qd play Ad (only one way to play)
(d) First trick, you have one heart, where the first card is a Heart.
- H X X (i) It doesn't matter which non-Heart you play.
(e) First trick, you have one heart, where the first card is a non-Heart (say As).
- H S S (i) With two Spades it doesn't matter.
- H S D (ii) With a choice of a Spade or a matching Rank, it doesn't matter (same logic as Ks Ad Qc vs As)
(f) First trick, you have two hearts.
- H H S (i) If possible play the non-heart.
(g) Second trick, play the one which has the fewest outs given what you see.
Quote: MidwestAPThe 3c has 24 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck, the 2 non-heart threes, and 11 hearts left in the deck.
The 8c has 24 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck, the 2 non-heart eights, and the 11 hearts left in the deck.
A better example would be if the first shredded card was the eight of spades, then
The 3c has 25 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck, the 2 non-heart threes, and 12 hearts left in the deck.
The 8c has 24 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck, the 1 non-heart eights, and the 12 hearts left in the deck.
Hey! Nice to see you again. Long time.
Quote: michael99000Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: WizardAny comments on the following strategy?
- Never play a heart, unless it's your only choice.
- Given the choice of multiple non-heart cards to play, play the one with fewer outs. For any given card, the number of outs is the number of remaining cards that match in rank or suit, not counting hearts.
Here is an example:
The 3c has 13 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck and 2 non-heart threes.
The 8c has 12 outs -- the 11 clubs left in the deck and the 1 non-heart eight.
So, play the 8c, because it has fewer outs.
Any situations this advice doesn't cover?
Bad example? 2 non-heart 8s remain.
Isn’t that why he’s saying hold onto the 3? Because the last dealer card is more likely to be a 3 than an 8
No, because the examples have the same number of outs remaining. Rank doesnt mattter when the dealer has a heart. its a free play, no bonus for matching rank. 11 clubs, 8S, 8D is 13 outs, and any heart is more outs, but is equally true for both.
Maybe I'm missing something?
Quote: GialmereI really want to like this game but the HE just kills it. It's fun to play as long as you're not betting money on the outcome.
That's really easy to fix. Pay 20 or 25 to 1 for 5 hearts on the Hearts paytable. It only happens about 1 in 400 hands. That would bring the effective HE down around 2%, which is the sweet spot.
But I agree. I wouldn't play it with this paytable. As I mentioned before, I was seeing a steady drain that was too fast on the demo. Nice to have the math to confirm that, thanks Wiz and Miplet.
On paper, this game seems rather complicated and out of left field, but after playing it a bit, I kind of like it. It seems like I lose more than 3.89%, but that's based on a small sample size.
I welcome all comments on my page.
On the rack card, there is a comma between the words “Ante” and “and” that makes this confusing.
House Edge calculation always assumes players make the best choice at each stage. Where there are three Hearts in play then each turn should either have the Dealer play a Heart or the Player play a Heart, but not both. Thus the Player should always be able to win. With four or more Hearts in play, sometimes the Player will also have to play a Heart, but will always win.Quote: michael99000...if there are 3 hearts among the 6 cards in play...player makes strategy mistakes...
Quote: michael99000What happens if there are 3 hearts among the 6 cards in play, but the player makes strategy mistakes and does not discard all 3 of his cards? Would the hearts bet still win the 1-1 payout?
On the rack card, there is a comma between the words “Ante” and “and” that makes this confusing.
The player MUST lay all three cards for the hearts bet to pay. Especially because this game is new and a bit tricky at first, I do think that the dealer would allow the player to re-arrange the cards if there is a combination that would result in all three cards being laid (except for in non-heart situations where there was a 50/50 choice as described a few posts back)
The only error I can think of would be a player playing a Heart when they shouldn’t on a dealer’s heart:
AH 3D 6S vs X X 7H
Lay 6S
AH 3D vs X 8H 7H
For some reason lay AH
3D vs 2C 8H 7H
Lose both the ante and Hearts bet.
Based on the amount of coaching that was going on, neither the dealer nor pitboss would allow this error. They would have said “don’t play a heart on a heart if you have another card available” and likely would’ve just swapped the cards on the players layout to show they went out.
Maybe this will change once the game has been around a while (years maybe) when not every single person playing is new.
If anyone thinks this is optimistic or unlikely, I would try thinking of it as a rule of the game “player may only lay hearts on a dealer heart if it is the only option”. That’s how the dealer and PB were coaching
HOWEVER in the demo it will let you make this mistake and you will lose both bets
#include <iostream>
#include <fstream>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <math.h>
#include <time.h>
#include <stdio.h>
using namespace std;
struct card
{
int r;
int s;
int in;
};
void ante(void);
void attack(void);
int score(card player[]);
void sort(card player[]);
void main(void)
{
int ch;
cerr << "1. Attack bet\n";
cerr << "2. Ante bet\n";
cin >> ch;
if (ch==1)
attack();
else if (ch==2)
ante();
cerr << "Hit any key\n";
cin >> ch;
return;
}
void ante(void)
{
int i,j,k,z,d1,d2,d3,p1,p2,p3,out_array[3],card_played[3],win,tot_hearts;
card dealer[3],player[3],deck[52];
__int64 tot_win=0;
__int64 tot_loss=0;
__int64 card1loss=0;
__int64 card2loss=0;
__int64 card3loss=0;
__int64 count=0;
__int64 tot_hearts_array[52];
bool debug1=true;
for (i=0; i<=51; i++)
{
deck.r=(int)i/4;
deck.s=i%4;
deck.in=1;
tot_hearts_array=0;
}
for (i=0; i<=49; i++)
{
player[0]=deck;
deck.in=0;
cerr << i << "\n";
for (j=i+1; j<=50; j++)
{
player[1]=deck;
deck.in=0;
for (k=j+1; k<=51; k++)
{
count++;
deck[k].in=0;
player[2]=deck[k];
for (z=0; z<=2; z++)
card_played[z]=99;
for (d1=0; d1<=51; d1++)
{
if (deck[d1].in==1)
{
// if (debug1==true)
// cerr << "d1=" << d1 << "\t";
deck[d1].in=0;
dealer[0]=deck[d1];
for (z=0; z<=2; z++)
out_array[z]=0;
for (p1=0; p1<=2; p1++)
{
if ((dealer[0].s==0)||(player[p1].s==0)||(player[p1].r==dealer[0].r)||(player[p1].s==dealer[0].s)) // card may be played
{
if (player[p1].s==0)
out_array[p1]=52;
else // if ((player[p1].r==dealer[0].r)||(player[p1].s==dealer[0].s))
{
for (z=0; z<=51; z++)
{
if ((deck[z].in==1)&&(deck[z].s!=0)&&((deck[z].r==player[p1].r)||(deck[z].s==player[p1].s))) // out
out_array[p1]++;
}
}
}
}
if ((out_array[0]>0)||(out_array[1]>0)||(out_array[2]>0)) // at least one card may be played
{
if ((out_array[0]>0)&&((out_array[1]==0)||(out_array[0]<=out_array[1]))&&((out_array[2]==0)||(out_array[0]<=out_array[2])))
card_played[0]=0; // first card played is player card 1
else if ((out_array[1]>0)&&((out_array[2]==0)||(out_array[1]<=out_array[2])))
card_played[0]=1;
else
card_played[0]=2;
for (d2=0; d2<=51; d2++)
{
if (deck[d2].in==1)
{
deck[d2].in=0;
dealer[1]=deck[d2];
for (z=0; z<=2; z++)
out_array[z]=0;
for (p2=0; p2<=2; p2++)
{
if ((card_played[0]!=p2)&&((dealer[1].s==0)||(player[p2].s==0)||(player[p2].r==dealer[1].r)||(player[p2].s==dealer[1].s))) // card may be played
{
if (player[p2].s==0) // heart
out_array[p2]=52;
else
{
for (z=0; z<=51; z++)
{
if ((deck[z].in==1)&&(deck[z].s!=0)&&((deck[z].r==player[p2].r)||(deck[z].s==player[p2].s))) // out
out_array[p2]++;
}
}
}
} // end p2 for loop
if ((out_array[0]>0)||(out_array[1]>0)||(out_array[2]>0)) // card may be played
{
if ((card_played[0]!=0)&&(out_array[0]>0)&&((out_array[1]==0)||(out_array[0]<=out_array[1]))&&((out_array[2]==0)||(out_array[0]<=out_array[2])))
card_played[1]=0;
else if ((card_played[0]!=1)&&(out_array[1]>0)&&((out_array[2]==0)||(out_array[1]<=out_array[2])))
card_played[1]=1;
else
card_played[1]=2;
for (d3=0; d3<=51; d3++)
{
if (deck[d3].in==1)
{
dealer[2]=deck[d3];
win=0;
for (p3=0; p3<=2; p3++)
{
if ((card_played[0]!=p3)&&(card_played[1]!=p3)&&((dealer[2].s==0)||(player[p3].s==0)||(player[p3].r==dealer[2].r)||(player[p3].s==dealer[2].s))) // card may be played
{
tot_win++;
win=1;
tot_hearts=0;
for (z=0; z<=2; z++)
{
if (player[z].s==0)
tot_hearts++;
}
for (z=0; z<=2; z++)
{
if (dealer[z].s==0)
tot_hearts++;
}
tot_hearts_array[tot_hearts]++;
}
}
if (win==0)
{
tot_loss++;
card3loss++;
}
} // d3 in deck
// cerr << temp << "\t";
} // end d3 for loop
card_played[1]=99;
} // end player can play second card
else // can't play second card
{
card2loss+=47;
tot_loss+=47;
}
deck[d2].in=1;
} // d2 in deck
} // end d2 for loop */
card_played[0]=99;
} // can play card 1
else
{
card1loss+=2256;
tot_loss+=2256;
}
deck[d1].in=1;
} // end if (deck[d1].in==1)
} // end for d1 loop
deck[k].in=1;
}
deck.in=1;
}
deck.in=1;
}
__int64 count2=tot_win+card1loss+card2loss+card3loss;
printf("count=\t%I64i\n",count);
printf("Total wins=\t%I64i\n",tot_win);
printf("Total losses=\t%I64i\n",tot_loss);
printf("Can't play first card=\t%I64i\t%f\n",card1loss,(double)card1loss/(double)count2);
printf("Can't play second card=\t%I64i\t%f\n",card2loss,(double)card2loss/(double)count2);
printf("Can't play third card=\t%I64i\t%f\n",card3loss,(double)card3loss/(double)count2);
for (z=6; z>=0; z--)
printf("Hearts=\t%i\t%I64i\t%f\n",z,tot_hearts_array[z],(double)tot_hearts_array[z]/(double)count2);
printf("Total=\t%I64i\n",tot_loss+tot_win);
return;
}
void attack(void)
{
int i,j,k,sc,score_array[52];
card player[3],deck[52];
for (i=0; i<=51; i++)
{
deck.r=(int)i/4;
deck.s=i%4;
score_array=0;
}
for (i=0; i<=49; i++)
{
player[0]=deck;
for (j=i+1; j<=50; j++)
{
player[1]=deck;
for (k=j+1; k<=51; k++)
{
player[2]=deck[k];
sc=score(player);
score_array[sc]++;
}
}
}
for (i=7; i>=0; i--)
printf("%i\t%i\n",i,score_array);
return;
}
int score(card player[])
{
int i;
int tot_hearts=0;
card temp[3];
for (i=0; i<=2; i++)
{
temp=player;
if (temp.s==0)
tot_hearts++;
}
sort(player);
if ((temp[0].r==10)&&(tot_hearts==3))
return 7;
else if ((temp[1].r==1)&&(temp[2].r==12)&&(tot_hearts==3)) // wheel straight flush
return 6;
else if ((temp[0].r+2==temp[2].r)&&(tot_hearts==3)) // straight flush
return 6;
else if ((temp[0].r==temp[2].r)&&(tot_hearts>=1)) // three of a kind with a heart
return 5;
else if (tot_hearts==3) // flush in hearts
return 4;
else if ((temp[0].r==0)&&(temp[1].r==1)&&(temp[2].r==12)&&(tot_hearts>=1)) // wheel straight with heart
return 3;
else if ((temp[0].r+1==temp[1].r)&&(temp[1].r+1==temp[2].r)&&(tot_hearts>=1)) // straight with heart
return 3;
else if ((temp[0].r==temp[1].r)&&((temp[0].s==0)||(temp[1].s==0))) // pair in first two cards with a heart
return 2;
else if ((temp[1].r==temp[2].r)&&((temp[1].s==0)||(temp[2].s==0))) // pair in second two cards with a heart
return 2;
else if (tot_hearts==2)
return 1;
else
return 0;
}
void sort(card d[]) // lowest to highest
{
int i,j;
card hold;
for (i=1; i>=0; i--)
for (j=0; j<=i; j++)
if (d.r > d[j+1].r)
{
hold=d;
d=d[j+1];
d[j+1]=hold;
}
}"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)April 11th, 2019 at 10:56:29 AM permalinkI will be going back tomorrow to play this and other games. Are there any specific questions or things anyone would like me to look out for?April 11th, 2019 at 11:36:28 AM permalinkQuote: GBAMI will be going back tomorrow to play this and other games. Are there any specific questions or things anyone would like me to look out for?
Thanks for the offer. I can't think of anything to ask. However, I'd like just a picture of the game. I know casinos aren't big on photography, so understand if you can't do it."For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)April 11th, 2019 at 4:39:53 PM permalinkI care. Too hard to read on my phone so I'll look at it later.Quote: WizardHere is my code, in the unlikely event anyone cares.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulousApril 11th, 2019 at 4:53:51 PM permalinkQuote: WizardThanks for the offer. I can't think of anything to ask. However, I'd like just a picture of the game. I know casinos aren't big on photography, so understand if you can't do it.
https://m.imgur.com/a/M3Yrcrp
Blocked out my players card and the dealers name. Best I could do
No one really uses the white lines where you are supposed to lay cards. Everyone just flops their cards down win or lose
They should have place the bottom pay table (Hearts bet) to the right so it lined up with the bet in my opinion. Might have made learning a bit easier.
The guy in the picture has 3 red cards. Dealer flipped 3 black cards. The dealer flips theirs from our right to left. He laid a heart, then matched the KD (saved his hand) then laid his final card, a second heart. Ante 1:1 hearts push
I forgot once again to memorize the progressive. I will do that tomorrow
Lost $60 by losing 5/6 hands. That’s all I was up anyway left evenLast edited by: GBAM on Apr 11, 2019April 11th, 2019 at 5:04:23 PM permalinkA clever layout for saving space with player cards (if used).
What's the progressive in general?Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.April 11th, 2019 at 5:18:58 PM permalinkQuote: GialmereA clever layout for saving space with player cards (if used).
What's the progressive in general?
3 card poker hands based on what you’re dealt. Lowest is 3OK (no heart needed for $30 or $45)
Major is around 9.5k at the moment with a $5000 envy for AQK of spades (hearts is built into the game already. Maybe that’s why they didn’t make it a jackpot here)
In between is straight ($150?), flush($300), and straight flushApril 11th, 2019 at 5:23:13 PM permalinkQuote: GBAMhttps://m.imgur.com/a/M3Yrcrp
Thank you! That is now the image associated with the game."For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)April 11th, 2019 at 5:23:52 PM permalinkQuote: mipletI care. Too hard to read on my phone so I'll look at it later.
Thanks for caring. I'd be interested in your thoughts."For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)April 11th, 2019 at 5:30:27 PM permalinkQuote: GBAM3 card poker hands based on what you’re dealt. Lowest is 3OK (no heart needed for $30 or $45)
Major is around 9.5k at the moment with a $5000 envy for AQK of spades (hearts is built into the game already. Maybe that’s why they didn’t make it a jackpot here)
In between is straight ($150?), flush($300), and straight flush
I see near the bottom of this page https://www.foxwoods.com/tablegames/#locations that on 4/5, someone won a nice progressive ($33,543) on Heart Attack Poker.April 11th, 2019 at 5:37:25 PM permalinkQuote: ChesterDogI see near the bottom of this page https://www.foxwoods.com/tablegames/#locations that on 4/5, someone won a nice progressive ($33,543) on Heart Attack Poker.
"Poker"? I guess they use the word to reassure skittish players.Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.April 16th, 2019 at 8:47:16 AM permalinkPlayed this game again at Foxwoods for about 45 minutes (just me and we played fast because the dealer and I knew the game well). I bought in for $200. I lost my first 7 hands in a row and was just about ready to go when I went on a nice little streak and worked my way back Up. It was a lot of work for $15. At that point I left.
The game is FUN to play. When it’s just you and the dealer it moves as fast or slow as you’d like it to. I haven’t had a chance to play with 4-6 people sitting. It’s a nice change of pace from craps, but I’ll always play it expecting the loss. The average payout/hand is low ($5 for $25)
-I never got a hand with more than 4 hearts on the table
-Getting dealt a hand with no hearts is a bummer. Getting a run of them even worse. Going out on them is possible and fun, but bittersweet because the payout is low for it. Maybe they should’ve added a 2x ante payout or something for a win with no hearts
-I never hit the attack bet for more than a straight with a heart (6:1), which I got once or twice
-I got a few non-heart flushes which do exactly nothing. Not even on the progressive
- I was the only one playing. A few stopped to watch and learn the rules but no one else bought in
-For the money I was playing, there were a few nice hits which kept me going, but if you outbet your bankroll you will drain FAST. During my streak I was playing $15 on ante+Heart with $10 on back. This means most hands I was betting $40 to win $5(yikes). Luckily that back $10 was hitting pairs a decent amount, with 3-4 hearts to boot. If I wasn’t hitting I definitely would not have sustained that level of play with only $200.April 16th, 2019 at 10:17:05 AM permalinkQuote: GBAMMaybe they should’ve added a 2x ante payout or something for a win with no hearts.
Yeah, something. I was thinking a "play" bet but imagine it would screw up the math too much.Quote: GBAMI got a few non-heart flushes which do exactly nothing. Not even on the progressive.
I don't even bother with the "attack" bet anymore on the demo.
Still, I agree it's a fun game and am a little disappointed to hear of an empty table.Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
