Poll

3 votes (20%)
9 votes (60%)
1 vote (6.66%)
1 vote (6.66%)
1 vote (6.66%)

15 members have voted

EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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March 19th, 2019 at 10:18:28 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I beat them every day
And they do hate my guts
BUT THEY ALSO FEAR ME!



If you knew how they really felt
about you (indifferent), you'd
be crushed. They don't lose a
lot of sleep over your type of
AP play..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
MaxPen
MaxPen
Joined: Feb 4, 2015
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March 19th, 2019 at 11:22:51 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The fact is the technology to spy with audio in a casino would require directional mikes also called spot mikes or unidirectional mikes (its been awhile since audio 101 but those are the terms I remember)

Anything else is going to pu everything in the room and become unintelligible

So if the casino is going to mike the gaming floor to obtain USEFUL sound they must install thousands of mikes (since they are not psychic or prescient where any particular AP team will be standing)

That would require hundred of thousands of recorded audio surveillance.

Okay they have the audio. Now what?

There is NO TECHNOLOGY TODAY that can understand what is being said and point out useful tidbits besides the human ear. And there is no way a staff of casino workers are listening IN REAL TIME to thousands of hours of audio.

Now if they did mike the casino the ONLY way they could handle a workload would be to only concentrate on those players who they have identified already as AP's or cheats. Which means not talking AP in a casino to avoid the audio is moot.

If they are surveilling you with audio you are already flagged, tagged and marked as an AP. Your career at thst casino is effectively over

You just dont know it yet.

Security is already on the way

However for those technical reasons above I doubt they have the entire floor miked with thousands of individual units



Maybe that's why you need to wear a mask. You underestimate your opponent. I thought I read a book written by a rags to riches AP that made it clear to only discuss AP in the back of the bus on the way to the play. Maybe it was the cargo compartment below the bus as him and his team stowed away for a free ride. I'm not really sure.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
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March 19th, 2019 at 11:39:47 PM permalink
There are also laser based listening systems that donít rely on the direct collection of sound waves, but measure the small changes in other objects caused by sound energy.

The technology and infrastructure exists to monitor every phone call for key phrases. I would be surprised if the larger casinos are not taking advantage of smaller scale versions to screen audio picked up in their gaming spaces.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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March 20th, 2019 at 12:14:39 AM permalink
Loose lips sink ships. Talking about something shady
that you're doing, in the place where you're doing it,
should get the stupidity award.

shady;
suspicious, suspect, questionable, dubious, doubtful,
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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Ayecarumba
March 20th, 2019 at 12:35:06 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

There are also laser based listening systems that donít rely on the direct collection of sound waves, but measure the small changes in other objects caused by sound energy.

The technology and infrastructure exists to monitor every phone call for key phrases. I would be surprised if the larger casinos are not taking advantage of smaller scale versions to screen audio picked up in their gaming spaces.



I don't think you can do this legally.

Quote:

The Wiretap Act, codified by 18 U.S. Code § 2511, is a federal law aimed at protecting privacy in communications with other persons. Typically, when you think of a "wiretap," the first thing that comes to mind is someone listening to your telephone calls. But the Act protects more than that. Under the Act, it is illegal to:

intentionally or purposefully
intercept, disclose, or use the contents of
any wire, oral, or electronic communication
through the use of a "device."



I think the exceptions are if the conversations could reasonably expected to be public, such as two people loudly arguing.
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
darkoz
darkoz 
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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March 20th, 2019 at 2:30:56 AM permalink
These casinos have all these poor APs quaking in their boots.

I am so ashamed at the quivering jellies in the AP field today who come up with all types of certainties that they really know nothing about. Anti-surveillance measures by AP are clearly based now in imagination

Laser beams, lip reading, microphones that capture whispered AP conversations no matter where on property, illegal surveillance wire-taps and computer surveillance

Out of the few times (3 in six years) I have had to wrar a mask because I was caught by surveillance I know EVERYTHING about why it happened and not one reason listed above.

First time trying a move that was new and which resembled an unrelated move (security misinterpreted what I was doing and had just dealt with a similar team)

Second time, one of my people got 2 different players cards without my knowledge (one in her maiden name one married) they came thru her husband so I didn't make the connection but the casino read the ID scans as the same person and had flagged the cards.

Third time, because the casino from the second time sent my info to them and I had the WORST luck possible-winning a large jackpot lol with an attendant right behind me and another persons card in the machine (a machine in six years that has never won jackpot status suddenly decides to retrigger 35 free spins three times over smh)

I have conversations in the casinos all the time. 7 days a week. I hand people money (handing people money in a casino WOW so suspicious). I am not kitty katty (think a synonym for the real word I want to use) that the casinos are standing over my shoulder like everyone else

I am totally ashamed by my AP brethren right now reduced to skulking in hallways and walking outside huge casino complexes just to do business and wear raincoats all the time

My masks are for extreme situations like the 2 top reasons listed above for my getting caught and I needed to go back inside. Rarely do I "have" to wear a mask or shade what and who I am - AND MY PICTURE AND MO HAS BEEN DISTRIBUTED TO MANY CASINOS I CURRENTLY OPERATE IN - and I still conduct business unhampered and unobserved for years now!

Finally as to the casinos being indifferent towards me when they do discover me that suggestion is simply untrue. When heat comes down it does have huge pressure to bear. I have seen the casinos dirtiest tricks to catch me and also have seen inside their own paperwork (a privilege of discovery in a lawsuit and other court cases ongoing) so I am quite familiar with A) their real capabilities and B) their real feelings towards me as an AP

Everyone else appears to be speculating based on, I dont know what, maybe what they observed from Hollywood movies I guess
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
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March 20th, 2019 at 6:40:16 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

YES. Can and do.



teliot,

I greatly respect your opinion. However, this time, I think you let me down by not providing any evidence of substance documenting your opinion that casinos "can and do" collect usable audio from player conversations on the game floor.

Insofar as I can, I (try to) keep up with tech developments as they affect the gaming industry, including discussions with casino staff about surveillance capabilities. What they have shared (could have been lying, I suppose) is that casinos have no way to record normal conversation from the casino floor where, for example, two players talk to one another. If I understand correctly, any company selling such technology must receive approval from gaming regulators before casinos are allowed to purchase and use what the company offers. I know of none.

My sources report they can activate audio recording, but that it requires someone in management or security to request it. Almost always, the casino is recording a personnel matter, such as when an employee is disciplined, or when a player (based on previously recorded video evidence) is questioned as part of an investigation. Such recordings are always made in an otherwise quiet room away from the gaming floor. Any such recordings (together with video) must be clear and understandable for any future use, whether terminating a dealer for sloppy performance or (far less often) for dealing with a troublesome player who, for example, agrees never again to set foot in the casino.

So, I am VERY interested in companies that advertise to casinos that their audio technology allows clear, understandable capture of conversation among persons at a gaming table. Please be so kind as to identify any companies that claim to sell such technology to casinos. If you can...

Curious minds want to know.
teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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March 20th, 2019 at 6:56:46 AM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

teliot,

I greatly respect your opinion. However, this time, I think you let me down by not providing any evidence of substance documenting your opinion that casinos "can and do" collect usable audio from player conversations on the game floor.

Insofar as I can, I (try to) keep up with tech developments as they affect the gaming industry, including discussions with casino staff about surveillance capabilities. What they have shared (could have been lying, I suppose) is that casinos have no way to record normal conversation from the casino floor where, for example, two players talk to one another. If I understand correctly, any company selling such technology must receive approval from gaming regulators before casinos are allowed to purchase and use what the company offers. I know of none.

My sources report they can activate audio recording, but that it requires someone in management or security to request it. Almost always, the casino is recording a personnel matter, such as when an employee is disciplined, or when a player (based on previously recorded video evidence) is questioned as part of an investigation. Such recordings are always made in an otherwise quiet room away from the gaming floor. Any such recordings (together with video) must be clear and understandable for any future use, whether terminating a dealer for sloppy performance or (far less often) for dealing with a troublesome player who, for example, agrees never again to set foot in the casino.

So, I am VERY interested in companies that advertise to casinos that their audio technology allows clear, understandable capture of conversation among persons at a gaming table. Please be so kind as to identify any companies that claim to sell such technology to casinos. If you can...

Curious minds want to know.

Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of this thread. if the question is whether casinos record some player dialogue in some casinos somewhere the answer is certainly yes as I have personally reviewed sutch materials. I have worked internationally, and there are many casinos where audio is routinely recorded. On the other hand, I do not know of any domestic casino that captures audio on a mass gaming floor.
End of the world website: www.climatecasino.net
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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RogerKint
March 20th, 2019 at 7:11:31 AM permalink
My local records the HL BJ room. It's funny because they let people wong in and out like crazy and don't seem to employ any actual countermeasures to stop people from counting (other than the mediocre rules). But they've used the audio to determine whether a player wanted to hit or surrender in cases where a card is dealt as soon as a finger hits the felt.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
darkoz
darkoz 
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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March 20th, 2019 at 7:34:23 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

My local records the HL BJ room. It's funny because they let people wong in and out like crazy and don't seem to employ any actual countermeasures to stop people from counting (other than the mediocre rules). But they've used the audio to determine whether a player wanted to hit or surrender in cases where a card is dealt as soon as a finger hits the felt.



I could see a quiet HL room being miked and recorded.

Again the reason there is no audio on the regular gsming floors is because the audio would be next to useless.

You need quiet conditions to collect usable audio.

And a huge amount of recording would be prohibitive to review

I could certainly see recording hands at a HL table in a quiet room to determine correct requests at the game tables
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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