Audio surveillance?

Someone said in another thread AP has to be kept unspoken in casinos because they have audio now as well as video. He even said they have professional lip readers (although I don't know why they would need that with audio)

I am quite certain they do not record audio on the gaming floors (only in quiet back rooms).

I have some experience with sound production from my days in the motion picture business both on set and in post though by no means am I a specialist in the matter

There are a number of reasons but basically its not feasible.

1) Ambient sound: Microphones are going to pick up everything and the audio from a gaming floor is nothing but a cacophony of bells, repetitive music, laughter and chatter, drink girls etc. There is no way any clear discernible conversation can be made out of that.

Yes if someone were screaming at the top of their lungs perhaps having won a jackpot you could make out what they were saying but I don't know any AP's YELLING their conversations. Most will be whispering or talking normal

2) no zooms - while video can be zoomed in to see the smallest detail there is no audio equivalent. You cannot zoom audio in closer to a conversation.

3) sound travels a short distance - unless the entire casino is miked sound simply cannot travel the distance required for proper recording. And the further away the mikes the more problem number one intrudes

4) no speed review - with thousands of floor cameras casino surveillance teams are not watching every image intently. Instead they give cursory looks at thumbnails and zoom in when necessary or they rewind if requested. Security can speed zoom through images at 2x or 3x speed or more. You can easily see if someone passes by a machine for example

There is no audio speed zoom. Well, there is but it sounds like the chipmunks on meth. Its simply unintelligible high pitched gibberish. It would literally have to be listened to in real time

Thousands of cameras with audio being reviewed in real time? Prosecutors and FBI will hire people to transcribe these types of recordings to prove a crime with a few hidden mikes. Casinos will not do it for thousands of cameras recording millions of hours of audio.

It is simply not feasible for casinos to spend all that money on miking the gaming floor for what amounts to a tiny negligible amount of usable data

YES they can do audio.

I think the question is not, "can they", because they certainly can. The technology exists to place small microphones all over the place. Just look at all the video and audio recorded by those newfangled doorbells. Darkoz is certainly correct though that the quality of the recording from a general wide field microphone would be inferior in a noisy casino. However, shotgun mics and parabolic dishes can to a pretty good job ignoring the ambient noise and picking up sound at a distance.

I think the question is "why would they need audio?" If was in charge of surveillance in a casino, the ability to eavesdrop on conversations would be valuable (but maybe not legal?). In my mind, the main focus of the surveillance would be employees, not patrons.

I lost a couple of hundred dollars in bets on a craps table when my "I'm off on the next roll" statement to the dealer, that I was standing practically next to, was not heard. Even though all the other players on my end of the table backed me up, he still swept up all my place bets. I ended up calling gaming on that one, as I was pretty sure the dealer was hard of hearing.

Quote: Keyser

YES they can do audio.

YES. Can and do.

Quote: darkoz

Yes if someone were screaming at the top of their lungs perhaps having won a jackpot you could make out what they were saying but I don't know any AP's YELLING their conversations.

This is how the most unknown known AP in the west does it:

Quote: djatc

This is how the most unknown known AP in the west does it:

Hell yeah!
Its loud in some of those casinos

Why would someone talk about AP in a casino? That stuff is best left to the back of the bus. Doesn't everyone know this?

If there is technology to do it I'm sure it's being done in some casinos. In my experience, casinos will spend a $100 to prevent someone getting over on them for a $1.

The fact is the technology to spy with audio in a casino would require directional mikes also called spot mikes or unidirectional mikes (its been awhile since audio 101 but those are the terms I remember)

Anything else is going to pu everything in the room and become unintelligible

So if the casino is going to mike the gaming floor to obtain USEFUL sound they must install thousands of mikes (since they are not psychic or prescient where any particular AP team will be standing)

That would require hundred of thousands of recorded audio surveillance.

Okay they have the audio. Now what?

There is NO TECHNOLOGY TODAY that can understand what is being said and point out useful tidbits besides the human ear. And there is no way a staff of casino workers are listening IN REAL TIME to thousands of hours of audio.

Now if they did mike the casino the ONLY way they could handle a workload would be to only concentrate on those players who they have identified already as AP's or cheats. Which means not talking AP in a casino to avoid the audio is moot.

If they are surveilling you with audio you are already flagged, tagged and marked as an AP. Your career at thst casino is effectively over

You just dont know it yet.

Security is already on the way

However for those technical reasons above I doubt they have the entire floor miked with thousands of individual units

Quote: MaxPen

casinos will spend a $100 to prevent someone getting over on them for a $1.

That's because casinos believe that
every dollar you walk in with is their's,
and they will do anything to get it.

A casino is just the old traveling
carnival in a permanent location.
The old carnival would do anything
to empty your wallet. It's a traveling
con, that's why the cops were always
hard on them.

Casinos have cleaned up the con, but
you still can't beat them. And if you
find a way to, they'll hate your guts
for cheating them out of getting
your money.

Quote: EvenBob

That's because casinos believe that
every dollar you walk in with is their's,
and they will do anything to get it.

A casino is just the old traveling
carnival in a permanent location.
The old carnival would do anything
to empty your wallet. It's a traveling
con, that's why the cops were always
hard on them.

Casinos have cleaned up the con, but
you still can't beat them. And if you
find a way to, they'll hate your guts
for cheating them out of getting
your money.

I beat them every day
And they do hate my guts

BUT THEY ALSO FEAR ME!

Quote: darkoz

I beat them every day
And they do hate my guts
BUT THEY ALSO FEAR ME!

If you knew how they really felt
about you (indifferent), you'd
be crushed. They don't lose a
lot of sleep over your type of
AP play..

Quote: darkoz

The fact is the technology to spy with audio in a casino would require directional mikes also called spot mikes or unidirectional mikes (its been awhile since audio 101 but those are the terms I remember)

Anything else is going to pu everything in the room and become unintelligible

So if the casino is going to mike the gaming floor to obtain USEFUL sound they must install thousands of mikes (since they are not psychic or prescient where any particular AP team will be standing)

That would require hundred of thousands of recorded audio surveillance.

Okay they have the audio. Now what?

There is NO TECHNOLOGY TODAY that can understand what is being said and point out useful tidbits besides the human ear. And there is no way a staff of casino workers are listening IN REAL TIME to thousands of hours of audio.

Now if they did mike the casino the ONLY way they could handle a workload would be to only concentrate on those players who they have identified already as AP's or cheats. Which means not talking AP in a casino to avoid the audio is moot.

If they are surveilling you with audio you are already flagged, tagged and marked as an AP. Your career at thst casino is effectively over

You just dont know it yet.

Security is already on the way

However for those technical reasons above I doubt they have the entire floor miked with thousands of individual units

Maybe that's why you need to wear a mask. You underestimate your opponent. I thought I read a book written by a rags to riches AP that made it clear to only discuss AP in the back of the bus on the way to the play. Maybe it was the cargo compartment below the bus as him and his team stowed away for a free ride. I'm not really sure.

There are also laser based listening systems that don’t rely on the direct collection of sound waves, but measure the small changes in other objects caused by sound energy.

The technology and infrastructure exists to monitor every phone call for key phrases. I would be surprised if the larger casinos are not taking advantage of smaller scale versions to screen audio picked up in their gaming spaces.

Loose lips sink ships. Talking about something shady
that you're doing, in the place where you're doing it,
should get the stupidity award.

shady;
suspicious, suspect, questionable, dubious, doubtful,

Quote: Ayecarumba

There are also laser based listening systems that don’t rely on the direct collection of sound waves, but measure the small changes in other objects caused by sound energy.

The technology and infrastructure exists to monitor every phone call for key phrases. I would be surprised if the larger casinos are not taking advantage of smaller scale versions to screen audio picked up in their gaming spaces.

I don't think you can do this legally.

Quote:

The Wiretap Act, codified by 18 U.S. Code § 2511, is a federal law aimed at protecting privacy in communications with other persons. Typically, when you think of a "wiretap," the first thing that comes to mind is someone listening to your telephone calls. But the Act protects more than that. Under the Act, it is illegal to:

intentionally or purposefully
intercept, disclose, or use the contents of
any wire, oral, or electronic communication
through the use of a "device."

I think the exceptions are if the conversations could reasonably expected to be public, such as two people loudly arguing.

These casinos have all these poor APs quaking in their boots.

I am so ashamed at the quivering jellies in the AP field today who come up with all types of certainties that they really know nothing about. Anti-surveillance measures by AP are clearly based now in imagination

Laser beams, lip reading, microphones that capture whispered AP conversations no matter where on property, illegal surveillance wire-taps and computer surveillance

Out of the few times (3 in six years) I have had to wrar a mask because I was caught by surveillance I know EVERYTHING about why it happened and not one reason listed above.

First time trying a move that was new and which resembled an unrelated move (security misinterpreted what I was doing and had just dealt with a similar team)

Second time, one of my people got 2 different players cards without my knowledge (one in her maiden name one married) they came thru her husband so I didn't make the connection but the casino read the ID scans as the same person and had flagged the cards.

Third time, because the casino from the second time sent my info to them and I had the WORST luck possible-winning a large jackpot lol with an attendant right behind me and another persons card in the machine (a machine in six years that has never won jackpot status suddenly decides to retrigger 35 free spins three times over smh)

I have conversations in the casinos all the time. 7 days a week. I hand people money (handing people money in a casino WOW so suspicious). I am not kitty katty (think a synonym for the real word I want to use) that the casinos are standing over my shoulder like everyone else

I am totally ashamed by my AP brethren right now reduced to skulking in hallways and walking outside huge casino complexes just to do business and wear raincoats all the time

My masks are for extreme situations like the 2 top reasons listed above for my getting caught and I needed to go back inside. Rarely do I "have" to wear a mask or shade what and who I am - AND MY PICTURE AND MO HAS BEEN DISTRIBUTED TO MANY CASINOS I CURRENTLY OPERATE IN - and I still conduct business unhampered and unobserved for years now!

Finally as to the casinos being indifferent towards me when they do discover me that suggestion is simply untrue. When heat comes down it does have huge pressure to bear. I have seen the casinos dirtiest tricks to catch me and also have seen inside their own paperwork (a privilege of discovery in a lawsuit and other court cases ongoing) so I am quite familiar with A) their real capabilities and B) their real feelings towards me as an AP

Everyone else appears to be speculating based on, I dont know what, maybe what they observed from Hollywood movies I guess

Quote: teliot

YES. Can and do.

teliot,

I greatly respect your opinion. However, this time, I think you let me down by not providing any evidence of substance documenting your opinion that casinos "can and do" collect usable audio from player conversations on the game floor.

Insofar as I can, I (try to) keep up with tech developments as they affect the gaming industry, including discussions with casino staff about surveillance capabilities. What they have shared (could have been lying, I suppose) is that casinos have no way to record normal conversation from the casino floor where, for example, two players talk to one another. If I understand correctly, any company selling such technology must receive approval from gaming regulators before casinos are allowed to purchase and use what the company offers. I know of none.

My sources report they can activate audio recording, but that it requires someone in management or security to request it. Almost always, the casino is recording a personnel matter, such as when an employee is disciplined, or when a player (based on previously recorded video evidence) is questioned as part of an investigation. Such recordings are always made in an otherwise quiet room away from the gaming floor. Any such recordings (together with video) must be clear and understandable for any future use, whether terminating a dealer for sloppy performance or (far less often) for dealing with a troublesome player who, for example, agrees never again to set foot in the casino.

So, I am VERY interested in companies that advertise to casinos that their audio technology allows clear, understandable capture of conversation among persons at a gaming table. Please be so kind as to identify any companies that claim to sell such technology to casinos. If you can...

Curious minds want to know.

Quote: LuckyPhow

teliot,

I greatly respect your opinion. However, this time, I think you let me down by not providing any evidence of substance documenting your opinion that casinos "can and do" collect usable audio from player conversations on the game floor.

Insofar as I can, I (try to) keep up with tech developments as they affect the gaming industry, including discussions with casino staff about surveillance capabilities. What they have shared (could have been lying, I suppose) is that casinos have no way to record normal conversation from the casino floor where, for example, two players talk to one another. If I understand correctly, any company selling such technology must receive approval from gaming regulators before casinos are allowed to purchase and use what the company offers. I know of none.

My sources report they can activate audio recording, but that it requires someone in management or security to request it. Almost always, the casino is recording a personnel matter, such as when an employee is disciplined, or when a player (based on previously recorded video evidence) is questioned as part of an investigation. Such recordings are always made in an otherwise quiet room away from the gaming floor. Any such recordings (together with video) must be clear and understandable for any future use, whether terminating a dealer for sloppy performance or (far less often) for dealing with a troublesome player who, for example, agrees never again to set foot in the casino.

So, I am VERY interested in companies that advertise to casinos that their audio technology allows clear, understandable capture of conversation among persons at a gaming table. Please be so kind as to identify any companies that claim to sell such technology to casinos. If you can...

Curious minds want to know.

Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of this thread. if the question is whether casinos record some player dialogue in some casinos somewhere the answer is certainly yes as I have personally reviewed sutch materials. I have worked internationally, and there are many casinos where audio is routinely recorded. On the other hand, I do not know of any domestic casino that captures audio on a mass gaming floor.

My local records the HL BJ room. It's funny because they let people wong in and out like crazy and don't seem to employ any actual countermeasures to stop people from counting (other than the mediocre rules). But they've used the audio to determine whether a player wanted to hit or surrender in cases where a card is dealt as soon as a finger hits the felt.

Quote: rdw4potus

My local records the HL BJ room. It's funny because they let people wong in and out like crazy and don't seem to employ any actual countermeasures to stop people from counting (other than the mediocre rules). But they've used the audio to determine whether a player wanted to hit or surrender in cases where a card is dealt as soon as a finger hits the felt.

I could see a quiet HL room being miked and recorded.

Again the reason there is no audio on the regular gsming floors is because the audio would be next to useless.

You need quiet conditions to collect usable audio.

And a huge amount of recording would be prohibitive to review

I could certainly see recording hands at a HL table in a quiet room to determine correct requests at the game tables

Quote: darkoz

These casinos have all these poor APs quaking in their boots.
I am so ashamed at the quivering jellies in the AP field today who come up with all types of certainties that they really know nothing about. Anti-surveillance measures by AP are clearly based now in imagination

This is as far as I got, it's all
I have time for right now.
I'll read the rest of it later.
Maybe..

Quote: darkoz

Laser beams, lip reading, microphones that capture whispered AP conversations no matter where on property, illegal surveillance wire-taps and computer surveillance

Out of the few times (3 in six years) I have had to wrar a mask because I was caught by surveillance I know EVERYTHING about why it happened and not one reason listed above.

First time trying a move that was new and which resembled an unrelated move (security misinterpreted what I was doing and had just dealt with a similar team)

Second time, one of my people got 2 different players cards without my knowledge (one in her maiden name one married) they came thru her husband so I didn't make the connection but the casino read the ID scans as the same person and had flagged the cards.

Third time, because the casino from the second time sent my info to them and I had the WORST luck possible-winning a large jackpot lol with an attendant right behind me and another persons card in the machine (a machine in six years that has never won jackpot status suddenly decides to retrigger 35 free spins three times over smh)

I have conversations in the casinos all the time. 7 days a week. I hand people money (handing people money in a casino WOW so suspicious). I am not kitty katty (think a synonym for the real word I want to use) that the casinos are standing over my shoulder like everyone else

I am totally ashamed by my AP brethren right now reduced to skulking in hallways and walking outside huge casino complexes just to do business and wear raincoats all the time

My masks are for extreme situations like the 2 top reasons listed above for my getting caught and I needed to go back inside. Rarely do I "have" to wear a mask or shade what and who I am - AND MY PICTURE AND MO HAS BEEN DISTRIBUTED TO MANY CASINOS I CURRENTLY OPERATE IN - and I still conduct business unhampered and unobserved for years now!

Finally as to the casinos being indifferent towards me when they do discover me that suggestion is simply untrue. When heat comes down it does have huge pressure to bear. I have seen the casinos dirtiest tricks to catch me and also have seen inside their own paperwork (a privilege of discovery in a lawsuit and other court cases ongoing) so I am quite familiar with A) their real capabilities and B) their real feelings towards me as an AP

Everyone else appears to be speculating based on, I dont know what, maybe what they observed from Hollywood movies I guess

Wouldn't APs in the Casinos just talk in Code with regular talk to avoid saying incriminating things? For example, 'I'm going to go take a leak," could be Code for "I see The Dealer's Hole Card."

Quote: teliot

Quote: LuckyPhow

teliot,

I greatly respect your opinion. However, this time, I think you let me down by not providing any evidence of substance documenting your opinion that casinos "can and do" collect usable audio from player conversations on the game floor.

Insofar as I can, I (try to) keep up with tech developments as they affect the gaming industry, including discussions with casino staff about surveillance capabilities. What they have shared (could have been lying, I suppose) is that casinos have no way to record normal conversation from the casino floor where, for example, two players talk to one another. If I understand correctly, any company selling such technology must receive approval from gaming regulators before casinos are allowed to purchase and use what the company offers. I know of none.

My sources report they can activate audio recording, but that it requires someone in management or security to request it. Almost always, the casino is recording a personnel matter, such as when an employee is disciplined, or when a player (based on previously recorded video evidence) is questioned as part of an investigation. Such recordings are always made in an otherwise quiet room away from the gaming floor. Any such recordings (together with video) must be clear and understandable for any future use, whether terminating a dealer for sloppy performance or (far less often) for dealing with a troublesome player who, for example, agrees never again to set foot in the casino.

So, I am VERY interested in companies that advertise to casinos that their audio technology allows clear, understandable capture of conversation among persons at a gaming table. Please be so kind as to identify any companies that claim to sell such technology to casinos. If you can...

Curious minds want to know.

if the question is whether casinos record some player dialogue in some casinos somewhere the answer is certainly yes as I have personally reviewed sutch materials.

Can you you tell us more please? I would appreciate as many details as you can give us. Why did they record them in the first place? Was this about slots, tables, cheating, general AP, grey area? What was the outcome? Why did they want you to listen? I would assume they had everything they needed to know with the recording already. Perhaps they still couldn't figure out what was going on?

Quote: Nathan

Wouldn't APs in the Casinos just talk in Code with regular talk to avoid saying incriminating things? For example, 'I'm going to go take a leak," could be Code for "I see The Dealer's Hole Card."

I had to do a double take on who posted this. Sometimes you really surprise me. Some AP's do in fact talk in code. The first thing I realized I needed a code word for was when there was potential heat.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: teliot

Quote: LuckyPhow

teliot,

teliot, we know the casinos have access to and implement state of the art technology in many segments of the casino industry. Is if far fetched to say that they have technology to control dice in some manner or have the ability to via chips, frequencies, liquid metal, sensors, etc.?

Quote: AxelWolf

I had to do a double take on who posted this.

Why. Just watch the MIT card counting
movie, they have codes for everything.
Old as the hills. They even used codes
in the TV show Deadwood in the casino.
Old traveling carnivals had lots of secret
codes.

Quote: WatchMeWin

teliot, we know the casinos have access to and implement state of the art technology in many segments of the casino industry. Is if far fetched to say that they have technology to control dice in some manner or have the ability to via chips, frequencies, liquid metal, sensors, etc.?

Quote: AxelWolf

I had to do a double take on who posted this. Sometimes you really surprise me. Some AP's do in fact talk in code. The first thing I realized I needed a code word for was when there was potential heat.

Thank you, Axel. :D I just came off with that off the top of my head, figuring what an AP would say to another AP to avoid being 86'd/backroomed/tresspassed/put on the OSN/etc.. :)

Quote: Nathan

Thank you, Axel. :D I just came off with that off the top of my head, figuring what an AP would say to another AP to avoid being 86'd/backroomed/tresspassed/put on the OSN/etc.. :)

Nathan you really amaze me with how much you have absorbed from this site,If I didn't know better I would think you were a different poster or were playing dumb in the beginning.

Guys this is well known stuff that has been talked about in past World Game Protection Conferences. Am I the only one that tries to listen in and read up on it?

You know they just met at the Tropicana, but nobody's openly talking about this years presentations. What should worry most people is the Nazi pipe dream of chipless casino gambling and the absurd robots collecting analytical data on every patron that enters.

Quote: Keyser

Guys this is well known stuff that has been talked about in past World Game Protection Conferences. Am I the only one that tries to listen in and read up on it?

You know they just met at the Tropicana, but nobody's openly talking about this years presentations. What should worry most people is the Nazi pipe dream of chipless casino gambling and the absurd robots collecting analytical data on every patron that enters.

Dont keep us in suspense

What did they say at the convention?

Here you go.


https://www.worldgameprotection.com/program/

Quote: darkoz

I have conversations in the casinos all the time. 7 days a week. I hand people money (handing people money in a casino WOW so suspicious). I am not kitty katty (think a synonym for the real word I want to use) that the casinos are standing over my shoulder like everyone else

I am totally ashamed by my AP brethren right now reduced to skulking in hallways and walking outside huge casino complexes just to do business and wear raincoats all the time

One mistake could cost an AP 10's of thousands and they could cost other AP's money as well by blowing a play.

You may not even know what kind of damage you are doing. The actions could be caught after you are gone. They may change something based on something you have done without giving you any trouble.

I have an old saying.

There isn't a problem...Until there is.

Quote: darkoz

I have conversations in the casinos all the time. 7 days a week. I hand people money (handing people money in a casino WOW so suspicious). I am not kitty katty (think a synonym for the real word I want to use) that the casinos are standing over my shoulder like everyone else
I am totally ashamed by my AP brethren right now reduced to skulking in hallways

Aren't you the guy who thought it
was fine to tell everyone you knew
where you kept the valuables, when
some of them had access to your
house and could even get into the
safes? How did that work out for
you. It seems that would have taught
you something. It's like the guy
who who drinks and drives and
doesn't get caught 43 times in a
row. Then on the 44th time, blam!

He didn't know the average drunk
gets caught about once every
40 times he drives drunk. He was
relaxed and in the groove, then
the law of averages caught up
with him.

Quote: EvenBob

Aren't you the guy who thought it
was fine to tell everyone you knew
where you kept the valuables, when
some of them had access to your
house and could even get into the
safes? How did that work out for
you. It seems that would have taught
you something. It's like the guy
who who drinks and drives and
doesn't get caught 43 times in a
row. Then on the 44th time, blam!

He didn't know the average drunk
gets caught about once every
40 times he drives drunk. He was
relaxed and in the groove, then
the law of averages caught up
with him.

No I didnt tell everyone I knew where my valuables were. I know a few thousand people

I only told the few people I trusted the most.

If you read the whole thread none of those people turned out to be the thief either. My judgement was vindicated. An outside element wormed their way in.

Live and learn

Once again I stand by my statement. The other APs here are acting like akulking worms wearing raincoats every day and every play and then criticize me for wearing a mask like once every 2 years lol.

BTW - how is that roulette AP play working out for you? Any heat yet?

Quote: Keyser

Here you go. https://www.worldgameprotection.com/program/

Keyser,

Many thanx for the link. Many interesting presentations, but no info about the actual content.

However, I did notice the three sponsors shown at the bottom of the page you provided. One, Global Gaming Business Magazine, probably organized the conference. However, it doesn't actually sell game-protection solutions to casinos. Someone has to pull everything together for conferences such as this one, and GGB seems to do this difficult job well.

The other two conference sponsors do offer game-protection solutions to casinos. I didn't drill down past the Internet home page each presents, but I saw no suggestion they helped with "audio" anything. (True, their video solutions may include audio, but audio is not specifically mentioned.)

Quote: Dallmeier

With Panomera, IP cameras, recording servers, intelligent video analysis and software, Dallmeier offers complete systems and high quality components which can be integrated easily into third party systems thanks to open interfaces (e.g. Onvif).

Quote: North American Video

Our Technology expertise spans IP and analog video, access control, point-of-sale, license plate recognition, intrusion detection, emergency call, intercom, and visitor management solutions all coupled with a premier reputation for outstanding customer service.

If these two companies integrate audio into their video solutions, they appear not to mention it on their Internet home pages. However, I would have enjoyed seeing a free video of some of the conference presentations. Technology, technology everywhere, but never a free recording to view (and hear!)

Did you attend the conference? Or, did you become aware of the conference because the casino was more crowded? Or, buffet lines were so long one had to pack lunch to stand in line for dinner? Or, maybe you became aware of the conference because strangers in suits kept walking the floor and doing crazy, non-gaming stuff. ("See, George, this casino uses Effersen video housings," sez one, pointing at the ceiling.)

If I really wanted to catch and ID people in the casino I'd use an assortment of things to keep track of repeaters.

Something to weigh them while they gamble, know their shoe size, facial recognition, left handed or right handed, glasses or contacts, perferred bevarage or none, scars, limps...they read Wizard of Vegas.

Quote: rxwine

If I really wanted to catch and ID people in the casino I'd use an assortment of things to keep track of repeaters.

Something to weigh them while they gamble, know their shoe size, facial recognition, left handed or right handed, glasses or contacts, perferred bevarage or none, scars, limps...they read Wizard of Vegas.

Why not put those radiated isotopes into the alcohol so you can use sophisticated scanners to track their every location?

Quote: darkoz

Why not put those radiated isotopes into the alcohol so you can use sophisticated scanners to track their every location?

Do you have trouble telling people what kind of gift you could use? I got a new idea for you!

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/us-military-surplus-portable-radiation-detector-new?a=80000&pm2d=CSE-SPG-15-SZLA&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=shopzilla&utm_campaign=CI

i love how we have an industry expert here at our fingertips and people still dont believe him (teliot) when he straight up says its true and this has happened on multiple threads. for this reason i trust myself more than most of you

Quote: heatmap

i love how we have an industry expert here at our fingertips and people still dont believe him (teliot) when he straight up says its true and this has happened on multiple threads. for this reason i trust myself more than most of you

Teliot says in a later post of the thread that he misunderstood. He thought we were talking about audio in backrooms etc.

Not gaming floor audio

Sure they may be recording everything but that's a lot of unfiltered data. What I have doubts on is that my or any specific conversation is being actively listened to.

Quote: darkoz

Teliot says in a later post of the thread that he misunderstood. He thought we were talking about audio in backrooms etc.

Not gaming floor audio

You must have misunderstood this post:

Quote: teliot

Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of this thread. if the question is whether casinos record some player dialogue in some casinos somewhere the answer is certainly yes as I have personally reviewed sutch materials. I have worked internationally, and there are many casinos where audio is routinely recorded. On the other hand, I do not know of any domestic casino that captures audio on a mass gaming floor.

When I said "mass gaming" I meant "mass-gaming" areas. I am sorry if my language was not clear. Hyphens sometimes help. Then again, I am not sure how you got "not gaming floor audio" from "mass gaming". I suppose the word "mass" may be an industry word, not an AP word. When I said "there are many casinos where audio is routinely recorded" I was referring to all areas of the casino, including the gaming floor.

To clarify what I meant by "mass-gaming." This means the larger floor area where the bulk of the games are offered. It does not include high-limit and specialty gaming areas.

So, let me re-re-clarify, just in case the above is tldr;

Audio recordings are routinely taken on the casino floor in some casinos I have interacted with internationally. I have first-hand knowledge of this. Audio is not routinely recorded in "mass-gaming" areas of domestic casinos, at least none that I know about.

Quote: teliot

You must have misunderstood this post:


When I said "mass gaming" I meant "mass-gaming" areas. I am sorry if my language was not clear. Hyphens sometimes help. Then again, I am not sure how you got "not gaming floor audio" from "mass gaming". I suppose the word "mass" may be an industry word, not an AP word. When I said "there are many casinos where audio is routinely recorded" I was referring to all areas of the casino, including the gaming floor.

To clarify what I meant by "mass-gaming." This means the larger floor area where the bulk of the games are offered. It does not include high-limit and specialty gaming areas.

So, let me re-re-clarify, just in case the above is tldr;

Audio recordings are routinely taken on the casino floor in some casinos I have interacted with internationally. I have first-hand knowledge of this. Audio is not routinely recorded in "mass-gaming" areas of domestic casinos, at least none that I know about.

Thank you for the clarification. I was probably not clear enough either but we both are in agreement

I was referring in my OP to audio being worthless from mass gaming/large gaming area due to ambient noise like slots etc.

Quieter areas of gaming like card rooms or high limit rooms make more sense. But certainly in a high limit Blackjack room where the dealer is clearly able to hear your hit or stand requests you arent going to be dumb enough to have AP related conversations

There are some on here claiming nowhere is safe for a conversation and the entire floor is miked

Quote: darkoz

There are some on here claiming nowhere is safe for a conversation and the entire floor is miked

There are certainly casinos internationally where this is true.

Surely neural nets can be trained to monitor conversations. I imagine that in a few years this will be possible in the mass-gaming areas. At present, I think not. I put it on par with FRS.

Quote: teliot

There are certainly casinos internationally where this is true.

Surely neural nets can be trained to monitor conversations. I imagine that in a few years this will be possible in the mass-gaming areas. At present, I think not. I put it on par with FRS.

I'm sure DARPA is a few years into it already.

Quote: darkoz

Thank you for the clarification. I was probably not clear enough either but we both are in agreement

I was referring in my OP to audio being worthless from mass gaming/large gaming area due to ambient noise like slots etc.

Quieter areas of gaming like card rooms or high limit rooms make more sense. But certainly in a high limit Blackjack room where the dealer is clearly able to hear your hit or stand requests you arent going to be dumb enough to have AP related conversations

There are some on here claiming nowhere is safe for a conversation and the entire floor is miked

The fact is that if they really wanted to they could listen in to your conversations. Its better to be overly cautious and keep yourself or a play from ending than it is to be loose with your actions.

Who knows what some people are dumb enough to do.
Some "AP's" are dumb enough to blatantly hand money Back-and-forth in the casino without a care in the world. I can guarantee you that is a big red flag. I have seen it in reports, A surveillance guy told me its something they watch for, I have seen it in a griffin book as a tell tell sign of shenanigans, I have seen security guards and management notice prompting them to take action. I could go on but ill leave it up to your imagination. It's one of the first of many tip offs for casinos that something isn't right.

Quote: AxelWolf

The fact is that if they really wanted to they could listen in to your conversations. Its better to be overly cautious and keep yourself or a play from ending than it is to be loose with your actions.

Who knows what some people are dumb enough to do.
Some "AP's" are dumb enough to blatantly hand money Back-and-forth in the casino without a care in the world. I can guarantee you that is a big red flag. I have seen it in reports, A surveillance guy told me its something they watch for, I have seen it in a griffin book as a tell tell sign of shenanigans, I have seen security guards and management notice prompting them to take action. I could go on but ill leave it up to your imagination. It's one of the first of many tip offs for casinos that something isn't right.

Well maybe in Vegas

On the East Coast we dont have to worry about that. You can trust me on that one.

And I too have seen security reports and spoken to security staff at the highest levels.

EDIT: As I am primarily not a tables game AP perhaps we are just discussing 2 different beasts here.

If I am handing someone money in a casino its generally over a slot machine or in a food vendor.

I have handed cash to friends of mine at live tables because then I wasnt APing which if the casino wanted to follow my every move now I would have no problem with. I rarely play live tables where I AP because it would feel too much like giving the money back

The heck with audiophobia

Soon you will be contacted on how to buy back your naked video. (not you, not you, the good looking ones) Coming to a hotel room near you.

Quote:

about 1,600 people have been secretly filmed in hotel rooms in South Korea, with the footage live-streamed online for paying customers to watch, police said Wednesday.

Two men have been arrested and another pair investigated in connection with the scandal, which involved 42 rooms in 30 accommodations in 10 cities around the country. Police said there was no indication the businesses were complicit in the scheme.

In South Korea, small hotels of the type involved in this case are generally referred to as motels or inns.
Cameras were hidden inside digital TV boxes, wall sockets and hairdryer holders and the footage was streamed online, the Cyber Investigation Department at the National Police Agency said in a statement.

The site had more than 4,000 members, 97 of whom paid a $44.95 monthly fee to access extra features, such as the ability to replay certain live streams. Between November 2018 and this month, police said, the service brought in upward of $6,000.

Except for finding poker players in cahoots with each other (which a dealer would hear), why would they even care.