Why do casinos NOT allow shoes to sit for a certain amount of time?

When a table becomes inactive, the dealer is instructed to eventually break down the current running shoe and put the decks back into a cool design on the table.

Why? Are the shufflers not expensive to perform a shuffle? Are the shufflers rented by the hour or shuffle? Why waste the time to reshuffle if every shuffle is equal in probability?

Quote: heatmap

When a table becomes inactive, the dealer is instructed to eventually break down the current running shoe and put the decks back into a cool design on the table. Why?

Because in many locations it is required

A quote from New Jersey gaming regulations:

Quote:

If there is no gaming activity at a blackjack table which is open for gaming, the cards shall be removed from the dealing shoe and the discard rack, and spread out on the table for inspection, either face up or face down. If the cards are spread face down, they shall be turned face up once a player arrives at the table. After the first player is afforded an opportunity to visually inspect the cards the cards shall be turned face downward on the table.

Quote: heatmap

Are the shufflers not expensive to perform a shuffle? Are the shufflers rented by the hour or shuffle? Why waste the time to reshuffle if every shuffle is equal in probability?

I understand that its a regulation, but once again why is it a regulation?

Heh. Considering the somewhat heated debate here about trusting card shufflers, the New Jersey regulation makes sense although they also spread the cards at an inactive table back in the before days for the same reason I presume.

Quote: Gialmere

Heh. Considering the somewhat heated debate here about trusting card shufflers, the New Jersey regulation makes sense although they also spread the cards at an inactive table back in the before days for the same reason I presume.

I have already made an assumption based on why i think they do it but its really out there. Can you illuminate me as to why you are connecting shady shufflers to this particular rule. ill tell you that in my opinion, the shuffle is somewhat particular to the players at the table, or their playing habbits, and they need to leave a small window open for the player or other players to bite the hook, but when the max time is reached its not worth it. <- told ya it was out there

It is a player safety to give them confidence that the deck is not stacked. The player can inspect the cards and watch the shuffle. It originated before the automatic shufflers.

I assumed it started before CSM ASM etc which is why I believe my thoughts are pure paranoia

Depends on the jurisdiction. When a shoe has been inactive for a while, we will reshuffle and have it ready to go for the next guest. Lots of people prefer to play from a fresh shoe than one that is half used. Shuffling is a time saver.

It is also easier for game security reasons for the cards to be spread on the table, than for half the deck to be in a discard rack. If the dealer is not paying attention, those cards are more at risk than ones that are right in front of them.

Quote: FCBLComish

It is also easier for game security reasons for the cards to be spread on the table, than for half the deck to be in a discard rack. If the dealer is not paying attention, those cards are more at risk than ones that are right in front of them.

A very good point that I didn't think of.

Quote: heatmap

I have already made an assumption based on why i think they do it but its really out there. Can you illuminate me as to why you are connecting shady shufflers to this particular rule. ill tell you that in my opinion, the shuffle is somewhat particular to the players at the table, or their playing habbits, and they need to leave a small window open for the player or other players to bite the hook, but when the max time is reached its not worth it. <- told ya it was out there

I don't think shufflers are shady although some here would disagree with that sentiment. It's just that people make mistakes. It's completely acceptable, for example, to count your chips after you buy in right after you watched the dealer count them out. It's also acceptable to ask the dealer to spread the cards being used in a game to be certain things are on the level.

One time I was playing single deck Blackjack and the dealer asked the floorman for a new deck. (Someone had spilled their drink.) The floorman opened a pack and handed the deck to the dealer. While the dealer spread the cards and examined them, the floorman (behind the dealer's back) held up the 7 of hearts which he had quietly purloined from the deck. The dealer glanced up from the spread, declared the deck good and started shuffling. The floorman tossed the missing 7 on the table and everyone had a good laugh, but I thought it a great learning experience. Here was a professional dealer who coudn't spot a missing card in a game of single deck! To error is human.

So yeah, if a table is opening I would ask the dealer to spit the cards out of the machine and spread them. (Evidently in New Jersey it's mandatory.) I wouldn't be accusing them of cheating; I'd just be making sure all the "T's" were crossed and the "I's" were dotted before money was put on the line. I imagine that leaving the cards spread also saves time. It's quicker to have the new player approve the deck and stick the cards into the machine than it is to remove the cards, spread them, get a thumbs up and then put them back.

I'm glad you posted this HM. It's the little details and rituals most people don't think twice about that I find fascinating.

This thread was made for ZenKing. It’s the opposite his thread on preshiffled, unchecked decks.

Players don't like sitting down at a dead table with a half-played shoe. Usually a half-played shoe is an indicator that the last player lost, otherwise they'd still be there. A fresh shoe is more inviting.

Quote: Deucekies

Players don't like sitting down at a dead table with a half-played shoe. Usually a half-played shoe is an indicator that the last player lost, otherwise they'd still be there. A fresh shoe is more inviting.

I RUN to a half used shoe. I have had more luck going to half used shoes than i ever had sitting at a shoe that was shuffled in front of me. the other day i was playing freebet, and the other freebet table that was across from me physically ran away from the shoe because it was SO bad. What did I do? i RAN to that shoe, and KILLED IT! I hit a 50-1 same suit dealer 22 to top it off. One of the guys who ran from the table saw me winning so he thought it was a good idea to come back. He kept losing and I kept winning. I eventually left.