Poll

10 votes (50%)
3 votes (15%)
2 votes (10%)
4 votes (20%)
4 votes (20%)
1 vote (5%)
No votes (0%)
2 votes (10%)
2 votes (10%)
4 votes (20%)

20 members have voted

Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23441
May 28th, 2018 at 7:38:17 AM permalink
There is a new game on field trial at the Rio called Flip-It. It should not be confused with the arcade game flip it, where a quarter is flipped onto a pile of other quarters and you hope it will cause some to be pushed over the ledge while not landing in the gutters.

No, this is a totally different game, using cards. You can try the Flip-It web site, but it is perhaps not the best new game web site I've ever seen *ahem*. Still, at least they have a web site. Most game inventors don't bother making one. Before you telling me how much my videos stink and are totally lacking in talent, I hope you'll watch the ones on this video first.

For what is supposed to be a simple game, I still have quite a few questions on the rules. Namely:

  1. What happens to the odd, even, high, and low bets when an ace is the fifth card? I assume a push but am not sure.
  2. Does the player bet the poker bet before or after the four-card flop?
  3. If the player can bet the poker bet after the flop, what is to prevent him from only betting on premium hands, like a four of a kind on the flop?
  4. What is with the rule about the first card moving to the fourth position if the fifth card is a joker?
  5. What's the penetration (shut up Wiz!)?


The question for the poll is would you play Flip-It?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
rsactuary
rsactuary
Joined: Sep 6, 2014
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1865
May 28th, 2018 at 7:47:39 AM permalink
I looked at the felt and was immediately not interested. Too busy, too many bets. I'd walk away.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 99
  • Posts: 14232
May 28th, 2018 at 9:02:34 AM permalink
Def too many bets. Agree there.

I take more issue with the base game HE. However, that would change with the answers to a couple of questions.

As Wizard said, what happens with an Ace flip to Odd/Even and High/low?

"Flip" seems to be specific to the 5th card. What if a joker is among the first 4 cards? Do all bets lose, or is the hand just redealt? Maybe the joker is replaced, with or without penalty?

24 jokers is 3/deck.That's a LOT for a loser salted in, and yet they still don't pay Aces, for a further HE boost.

At what point do they redeal the base hand, or do they just keep using the same cards sliding over? If they only got 1/4 penetration in 2 hours, seems like they must just keep sliding. The website script is indefinite.

10:1 for rank payoff is ridiculously low. That bet, with the deck as constructed, pays 1 in 13.75 times, or 7.273% of the time per number. My brain is sludge this morning, so help, but isn't that about a 10% HE? Or worse? I'm getting a 72% RTP at 10:1. Is that even legal in Vegas?

I could probably figure out some of the answers if I watched the videos, but I'm not up for it yet.

Sidebar: allergies are God's way of saying "Here's the hangover. You might as well drink snd enjoy the night before, cuz the morning's gonna suck anyway".

Edit: Really not fond of FH paying less than 3oak. How is that mathematically correct? Maybe it's a function of the game mechanism, sliding the hand, but seems more like non-poker players building a paytable. And not paying F/S/SF? And then paying a RF? Bizarre sop to non-poker players at the expense of the odds. Poker player or not, anybody can tell when 5 cards are in the same suit. Maybe 5 in a straight are slightly harder, but still grade-school level observation.

Really good question about the bonus bet. Can you jump on after there's a sure winner in the hand, to be slid? Does your Bonus bet ride if it wins and the hand slides? Can you increase it? Seems extremely vulnerable with the rules as they're written.
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on May 28, 2018
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
  • Threads: 39
  • Posts: 3689
May 28th, 2018 at 9:28:15 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

There is a new game on field trial at the Rio called Flip-It. It should not be confused with the arcade game flip it, where a quarter is flipped onto a pile of other quarters and you hope it will cause some to be pushed over the ledge while not landing in the gutters.

No, this is a totally different game, using cards. You can try the Flip-It web site, but it is perhaps not the best new game web site I've ever seen *ahem*. Still, at least they have a web site. Most game inventors don't bother making one. Before you telling me how much my videos stink and are totally lacking in talent, I hope you'll watch the ones on this video first.

For what is supposed to be a simple game, I still have quite a few questions on the rules. Namely:

  1. What happens to the odd, even, high, and low bets when an ace is the fifth card? I assume a push but am not sure.
  2. Does the player bet the poker bet before or after the four-card flop?
  3. If the player can bet the poker bet after the flop, what is to prevent him from only betting on premium hands, like a four of a kind on the flop?
  4. What is with the rule about the first card moving to the fourth position if the fifth card is a joker?
  5. What's the penetration (shut up Wiz!)?


The question for the poll is would you play Flip-It?



Another example of a terrible game that must have a inventor/Casino pre-existing relationship. This game has zero chance of making it.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888 
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
  • Threads: 50
  • Posts: 3271
May 28th, 2018 at 12:39:45 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Before you telling me how much my videos stink and are totally lacking in talent, I hope you'll watch the ones on this video first.



I agree - there is so much background noise in those Flip-it videos that all speech is unintelligible. These are many rungs below your videos on the "quality ladder." I did think the female dealer had nice photogenic hands, though. (LOL)


Quote: Wizard

What happens to the odd, even, high, and low bets when an ace is the fifth card? I assume a push but am not sure.



Actually, I assumed they were all lost, but I don't know. (Edit: after more thought, it makes more sense to me that they would be a push.)

Quote: Wizard

Does the player bet the poker bet before or after the four-card flop?



I am uncertain that player makes a poker bet at all. Where would the poker bet be placed on that table? (Maybe on the Letter B for Bonus?) The text describes the bets that can be made and a bet on the poker hand is not mentioned. I thought the poker hand payoffs were bonus payoffs on any other money placed. Look at it this way: when a joker comes out all the Call-It and Inside Bets automatically lose but may earn a bonus payout if the joker helps to make a poker hand of 2 pair or higher from the five cards on the table.

I mean the "Poker Hand" Bonus payout is very low, even with wild cards in the deck and also makes no sense.

Royal = 50-1
5oaK = 14-1
4oak = 7-1
3oak = 6-1
Full House = 5-1 (A boat should also qualify as the higher-paying 3oaK? )
2 pair = 2-1

So if you get a full house would it payout at 5-1 or 6-1?

If the 4-card board is 9-9-5-5 why wouldn't you bet table maximum in every way you can?


Quote: Wizard

What is with the rule about the first card moving to the fourth position if the fifth card is a joker?



I think you may have misread it (and it is a terribly-worded explanation.) After each flip-it card appears the "oldest card" on the table goes to discard and the flip-it card remains as the newest card. Thus, if the flip-it card is a joker it will be on the table for four more chances at a good poker hand.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on May 28, 2018
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 99
  • Posts: 14232
May 28th, 2018 at 12:43:32 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I agree - there is so much background noise in those Flip-it videos that all speech is unintelligible. These are many rungs below your videos on the "quality ladder." I did think the female dealer had nice photogenic hands, though. (LOL)




Actually, I assumed they were all lost, but I don't know.



I am uncertain that player makes a poker bet at all. Where would the poker bet be placed on that table? (Maybe on the Letter B for Bonus?) The text describes the bets that can be made and a bet on the poker hand is not mentioned. I thought the poker hand payoffs were bonus payoffs on any other money placed. Look at it this way: when a joker comes out all the bets on ranks and colors automatically lose but may earn a bonus payout if the joker helps to make a poker hand of 2 pair or higher from the five cards on the table.

I mean the "Poker Hand" Bonus payout is very low, even with wild cards in the deck and also makes no sense.

Royal = 50-1
5oaK = 14-1
4oak = 7-1
3oak = 6-1
Full House = 5-1 (A boat should also qualify as the higher-paying 3oaK? )
2 pair = 2-1

So if you get a full house would it payout at 5-1 or 6-1?

If the 4-card board is 9-9-5-5 why wouldn't you bet table maximum in every way you can?




I think you may have misread it (and it is a terribly-worded explanation.) After each flip-it card appears the "oldest card" on the table goes to discard and the flip-it card remains as the newest card. Thus, if the flip-it card is a joker it will be on the table for four more chances at a good poker hand.



Where does it say a joker fills anything for a bonus payout? I missed it. AFAICT, a joker simply kills the hand for everyone, but possibly only in the flip position?

What a muddle.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23441
May 28th, 2018 at 12:46:34 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I did think the female dealer had nice photogenic hands, though. (LOL)



Good one!

Thanks for the compliment on my videos and your help trying to sort out the rules.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888 
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
  • Threads: 50
  • Posts: 3271
May 28th, 2018 at 1:35:12 PM permalink
Yes, I agree it is badly muddled. Whoever wrote this was not an A student in school.

Because the bonus "poker" payout shows a payout for 5oaK, I was assuming that a joker acts as a wild card. But I just realized that with 8 decks a poker hand of 5oaK is certainly possible without resorting to Wild cards.

But, on the other hand, if the joker remains on the table and doesn't count as a wild then your chances of any kind of a poker payout are much smaller still.

The payoffs on these wagers are so bad, that I assume that the poker hand must be a bonus and the jokers play as a wild card.

Example: With a fresh shoe, if you place a wager on a specific rank (that is not one of the ranks in the 4 cards on the table) the probability of the Flip-It card being that rank is 0.0734 with a payout of 10-1 when you win. That is a house edge greater than 26%.

The so-called inside bets (Red, Black, Even, Odd, High, Low) all lose when a joker appears (5.45% of the time when no joker is on the board); otherwise the Inside Bets are Even Money wagers.

From a game design viewpoint, I imagine those bets have a house edge that is too large. It makes sense that the poker bet would be a bonus payout of some sort.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
miplet
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 1974
May 28th, 2018 at 2:08:35 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard


For what is supposed to be a simple game, I still have quite a few questions on the rules. Namely:

  1. What happens to the odd, even, high, and low bets when an ace is the fifth card? I assume a push but am not sure.
  2. Does the player bet the poker bet before or after the four-card flop?
  3. If the player can bet the poker bet after the flop, what is to prevent him from only betting on premium hands, like a four of a kind on the flop?
  4. What is with the rule about the first card moving to the fourth position if the fifth card is a joker?
  5. What's the penetration (shut up Wiz!)?



1- no clue
2- after and only if there is a pair, 2 pair, trips, quads, or 4 to a royal in the 4 card flop as you only get paid if the flip card makes a hand. For example 3 kings and a four on board. The player will win 7 to 1 if a king flips or 5 to 1 if a four flips and loose if anything else flips.
3-see 2
4- no clue, but I would think they would burn it instead
5- I finally got around to timing my Rubik's cube solving time. My best was 4 minutes 39 seconds. I need to get faster at f2l.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888 
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
  • Threads: 50
  • Posts: 3271
May 28th, 2018 at 2:37:34 PM permalink
Quote: miplet


2- after and only if there is a pair, 2 pair, trips, quads, or 4 to a royal in the 4 card flop as you only get paid if the flip card makes a hand. For example 3 kings and a four on board. The player will win 7 to 1 if a king flips or 5 to 1 if a four flips and loose if anything else flips.



miplet, in your example in which there are 3 kings and a four on board, if the flip-it card is a nine, you are saying that the 3 kings on the board do NOT qualify as a 3oaK? Because the flip-it card must be involved in the poker hand in some other way than as a singleton?

So if the first 5 cards on the board are all fives you win 14:1 and then on the next hand you will only get a poker bonus if the flip-it card is another five (paying off 14:1?). Holy Markov Chain, Batman.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.

  • Jump to: