Four Card Prime

Four Card Prime is the Galaxy Gaming version of Four Card Poker. They added a Bad Beat Bonus and a new side bet. The game is currently on field trial at the Boulder Station. If anyone can tell me the Bad Beat Bonus and Aces Baby Bonus pay tables they use there, I would appreciate it.

Please enjoy my new page on Four Card Prime. As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and especially corrections.

The question for the poll is would you play Four Card Prime?

This game is really fun to play!!!!

If I'm reading this right, the "Bad Beat Bonus" is a total red herring.

In Four Card Poker, the Automatic Bonus of 2/20/25 pays win or lose. In Four Card Prime, it only pays for a win. And the "Bad Beat", which will likely be paytable 1 (2/20/25) as well, pays if the player loses. This makes the game identical to Four Card Poker.

Edit: The only difference is that the ante pushes when the player loses with trips or better. Whoopie.

Four Card Poker offers a Two Way Bad Beat side bet that starts at two pair.

In conclusion, no. I would never play Four Card Prime.

Quote: Deucekies

If I'm reading this right, the "Bad Beat Bonus" is a total red herring.

I didn't think of that, but, yes, it would be the same game with Bad Beat pay table 1. The demo game at the Galaxy web site runs the 5-50-100 pay table 3. I still don't know what they are doing at the Boulder Station.

Isn't it the Galaxy version of Crazy 4 Poker, not Four Card Poker? There is a big difference in those 2 games. 4 Card Poker is the one where the dealer gets an extra card.

Four Card Frenzy is Galaxy's version of crazy 4 card.

Quote: FCBLComish

Isn't it the Galaxy version of Crazy 4 Poker, not Four Card Poker? There is a big difference in those 2 games. 4 Card Poker is the one where the dealer gets an extra card.

The dealer does have an extra card in Four Card Prime. Dealer has 6 cards to make a 4-card hand, while player only has 5 cards from which to make a four card hand. That's the same as 4-Card poker.

Quote: gordonm888

The dealer does have an extra card in Four Card Prime. Dealer has 6 cards to make a 4-card hand, while player only has 5 cards from which to make a four card hand. That's the same as 4-Card poker.

In that case, yuck.

Tacky IP thievery. I boycott Galaxy Games because of this. YMMV.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Tacky IP thievery. I boycott Galaxy Games because of this. YMMV.

I'm with you. No creativity, just copying something, and throwing it at a rundown Station's property for free is very tacky.

With Galaxy, it's truly a race to the bottom in the table games industry. No creativity, no innovation. Copy a Shuffle Master title, charge 1/10th of the cost, and pat yourself on the back.

No reason for anyone to continue to innovate with new concepts and new games. If successful, Galaxy will copy it, throw a Prime bet on it, and charge $200 a month for it.

Quote: SM777

I'm with you. No creativity, just copying something, and throwing it at a rundown Station's property for free is very tacky.

With Galaxy, it's truly a race to the bottom in the table games industry. No creativity, no innovation. Copy a Shuffle Master title, charge 1/10th of the cost, and pat yourself on the back.

No reason for anyone to continue to innovate with new concepts and new games. If successful, Galaxy will copy it, throw a Prime bet on it, and charge $200 a month for it.

While I agree with you that it's wrong, casinos in WA can't wait to pick up these games.

I still can't believe that WA casinos are allowed to opt out of the "matched 20" rule in Player's Edge, making the game identical to Spanish 21.

I have a little bit of inside information. Galaxy may or may not have the property rights for the Shuffle Master games that they are copying. I'm not sure how much I can legally divulge, but they are not just a company set up to blindly steal someone else's IP. If it were blind theft, you would certainly have seen some legal action from Shuffle Master by now.

Quote: FCBLComish

I have a little bit of inside information. Galaxy may or may not have the property rights for the Shuffle Master games that they are copying. I'm not sure how much I can legally divulge, but they are not just a company set up to blindly steal someone else's IP. If it were blind theft, you would certainly have seen some legal action from Shuffle Master by now.

It sounds like your inside information is general knowledge.

There's no IP to steal, these games aren't patented anymore, and some never were. The point I was making is Galaxy is in a race to the bottom, instead of to the top. What game can we legally copy, and how little can we charge? That's the current path they've been on, and continue to trend towards.

And the point I'll continue to make, as table games content continues to not get patents, what's the point of anyone (Shuffle Master, AGS, independent inventors) trying to innovate with new games, concepts, or purchase games from outside creators? All Galaxy will do is copy the non protected game, and charge a fraction of the cost. Why pay you $xxx for your game, if it's any good, Galaxy is waiting in the wings to throw a Prime bet on it and call it their own.

Nothing illegal about it. Just not a bright future for the table games industry.

Quote: SM777

It sounds like your inside information is general knowledge.

There's no IP to steal, these games aren't patented anymore, and some never were. The point I was making is Galaxy is in a race to the bottom, instead of to the top. What game can we legally copy, and how little can we charge? That's the current path they've been on, and continue to trend towards.

And the point I'll continue to make, as table games content continues to not get patents, what's the point of anyone (Shuffle Master, AGS, independent inventors) trying to innovate with new games, concepts, or purchase games from outside creators? All Galaxy will do is copy the non protected game, and charge a fraction of the cost. Why pay you $xxx for your game, if it's any good, Galaxy is waiting in the wings to throw a Prime bet on it and call it their own.

Nothing illegal about it. Just not a bright future for the table games industry.

Again, I do not think that is what Galaxy is doing. Have you seen them copy any other games from other companies? Any games from AGS? Any games from independent designers?

The situation with Shuffle Master/Galaxy has to do with Derek Webb and DEQ. You can probably research it given that information.

Note: I have no connection to either Shuffle Master or Galaxy Gaming.

Quote: FCBLComish

Again, I do not think that is what Galaxy is doing. Have you seen them copy any other games from other companies? Any games from AGS? Any games from independent designers?

The situation with Shuffle Master/Galaxy has to do with Derek Webb and DEQ. You can probably research it given that information.

Note: I have no connection to either Shuffle Master or Galaxy Gaming.

What game from AGS would they copy? They don't have anything successful.

I'm well aware of the situation, and it has nothing to do with copying Shuffle Master games. Hell, you could do exactly what Galaxy is doing, there's nothing illegal about it when the games aren't patented.

I'm not an attorney, so could easily be wrong, but my understanding is that the recent Bilski case more or less said that methods of dealing a card game, with no new technology, are not subject to patent protection. As far as I know, nobody has sued under the decision, because there is still money to be made licensing casino games, as long as casinos are willing to pay.

I tend to think that outright copying of games is not being challenged because the challenger would probably lose and then the whole house of cards, sorry for the pun, would fall down.

Quote: Wizard

I'm not an attorney, so could easily be wrong, but my understanding is that the recent Bilski case more or less said that methods of dealing a card game, with no new technology, are not subject to patent protection. As far as I know, nobody has sued under the decision, because there is still money to be made licensing casino games, as long as casinos are willing to pay.

I tend to think that outright copying of games is not being challenged because the challenger would probably lose and then the whole house of cards, sorry for the pun, would fall down.

I couldn't agree more. Shuffle Master has no ground to stand on for a non patented game. It's perfectly legal.

Quote: SM777

What game from AGS would they copy? They don't have anything successful.

I'm well aware of the situation, and it has nothing to do with copying Shuffle Master games. Hell, you could do exactly what Galaxy is doing, there's nothing illegal about it when the games aren't patented.

Chase the Flush?

Quote: FCBLComish

Chase the Flush?

I don't think Galaxy would waste the time on it, and start pushing a new knock off game until it has a substantial amount of placements.

Does Chase The Flush even have 5? I really don't know. 10?

Quote: FCBLComish

Again, I do not think that is what Galaxy is doing. Have you seen them copy any other games from other companies? Any games from AGS? Any games from independent designers?

Players Edge 21 is a copy of Spanish 21, a Masque Publishing property.

Players Edge 21 has been around for several years and had a single WA installation (AllStar Lanes, Silverdale) until recently.

What changed and has lead to many properties installing Players Edge in WA was the intoduction of the Monster Match Progressive to the base Spanish 21 game concept. Until that time, fee operators were swapping brands over price...player knew Spanish 21, the game wasn’t outrageously priced and changing didn’t make sense.

While there is a good argument that Players Edge is a knock off of Spanish 21, there is also a good argument that the Monster Match progressive was an inovative addition to the base game. Add a prodressive that players put their dolllar religiously and operators had a reason to consider a change.

This is a case of Masque getting a little complacent and instead of thinking about what was possible on a progressive for a game that was dominant in its niche, they spent time and resources towards developing Down Under BJ.

No idea why you would spend time developing a new blackjack variant when you have one of the most popular BJ variants already in your stable of games.

Anyone know the relative installation bases for S21 vs Free Bet BJ? I think that is Geoff’s/Sci Games highest installed BJ variant....Spanish might exceed Free Bet in installations, but that is total speculation.

SM777, I know of 3 tables of Chase the Flush in WA that were successful as of last December. I also know of at least 3 other EA properties that have tried the game and pulled it...I think the jury is still out on whether that game can be called a success.