Pai Gow Tiles

Quote: VladAlex1

Is it possible to get two players hands(2) and dealer hand (1) for all three of them to be identical?

Thanks,
Vlad
link to original post

No.

Thank you UP84,
It cleared way to for "player-banker" to play two hands against dealer for single player- two betiding bases game with no conflicting rules and RTP.
Can be interesting unique case for online casino game

Are tiles colors matter for players?
Black tiles with red and white points vs.
white tiles with black and red points?
It looks that Both color variations are available to buy.
What is casino preference

Quote: VladAlex1

Are tiles colors matter for players?
Black tiles with red and white points vs.
white tiles with black and red points?
It looks that Both color variations are available to buy.
What is casino preference
link to original post

I’ve only seen black tiles in the half dozen or casinos I’ve played in.

Here is White Authentic Dunes Casino Las Vegas Nevada Pai Gow Tile Set

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/303984492156?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180816085401%26meid%3Dbdfdc6cd09384e83a587796db87155e6%26pid%3D100970%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D231976952105%26itm%3D303984492156%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100970.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3A68cd3b89-5d84-11ed-a616-cea4b673ab63%7Cparentrq%3A4b043ac01840a1205e3a5efcfff75eaa%7Ciid%3A1

Quote: VladAlex1

Here is White Authentic Dunes Casino Las Vegas Nevada Pai Gow Tile Set

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/303984492156?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180816085401%26meid%3Dbdfdc6cd09384e83a587796db87155e6%26pid%3D100970%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D231976952105%26itm%3D303984492156%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100970.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3A68cd3b89-5d84-11ed-a616-cea4b673ab63%7Cparentrq%3A4b043ac01840a1205e3a5efcfff75eaa%7Ciid%3A1
link to original post

Those are vintage (old) tiles. The tiles I've seen in every US casino have been black.

I am looking for an expert opinion
Online casino game imaginary scenario for 7-seats table

single player is playing 2 hands against dealer (1 hand)
Two seats are taken by player to bet
32 tiles deviled to 8 stacks
Player got two stacks (8 tiles)
Dealer got one stack (4 tiles)
Five stacks of 4 tiles delivered to all five / no bets "empty seats" as well

players splits his 2 hands to determine result
Dealer reveals tiles and split in house way

"Empty seats" tiles to be revealed and split in house way as well to show "missing wins or lost opportunities" playing against dealer-banker or player-banker in standard manner
8 hands /32 tiles transparently presented on the table

Is it make sense?
Thanks

Game history can be shown in the simple roulette style format

B B P B P P T B T P ….

B- banker Red color
P- Player Blue color
T- Tie Green color

Is it make cense?
Thanks

Quote: VladAlex1

Game history can be shown in the simple roulette style format

B B P B P P T B T P ….

B- banker Red color
P- Player Blue color
T- Tie Green color

Is it make cense?
Thanks
link to original post

Is the player allowed to bank?

Yes
Every second game

Is it make sense to have game history for single player online game?

Quote: VladAlex1

Is it make sense to have game history for single player online game?
link to original post

No. Why would anyone care?

Sure
"Why would anyone care?"
But,
This case is for online casino game
Single player mode. playing against dealer.
Game history is common for roulette, baccarat etc.
Asian players care. It is in theirs gaming spiritual way to get in.

One day it may be be converted in "Baccarat history" display format

Quote: VladAlex1

Sure
"Why would anyone care?"
But,
This case is for online casino game
Single player mode. playing against dealer.
Game history is common for roulette, baccarat etc.
Asian players care. It is in theirs gaming spiritual way to get in.
link to original post

Yeah, but people look for patterns and trends in Roulette and Baccarat. What trends are you going to look for in Tiles? You either bet or you don't. You don't have the options like you do in Roulette or Baccarat.

Okay guys
You convinced me to drop an idea
Looks like my mistake...
Anyway, keep thinking
Thank you

Here is Sidebet link
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://gaming.nv.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=8543

Today Got tiles for $5 plus shipping $25 from China (Ali Express)
It is complete garbage and damaged by severe scratches and broken box

Quote: TigerWu

Yeah, but people look for patterns and trends in Roulette and Baccarat. What trends are you going to look for in Tiles? You either bet or you don't. You don't have the options like you do in Roulette or Baccarat.

When I used to play in London, Players would rarely take the bank (and when they did the casino allowed everyone to pile in on the player bank). They would only do this when they felt there was/had been a bad run of luck. (Also they would communicate between themselves how many Teens and Days they held, so they preferred to play all the Player hands than one hand by taking the bank.)

Need an expert opinion for my raw idea for online game layout

Single player ( two hands allow)
additional 5 seats / hands to be revealed after player confirm split for both hands

Is it beneficial to show all hands after split?
Is it attracts single player to play two hands?

Thanks

Quote: charliepatrick

When I used to play in London, Players would rarely take the bank (and when they did the casino allowed everyone to pile in on the player bank). They would only do this when they felt there was/had been a bad run of luck. (Also they would communicate between themselves how many Teens and Days they held, so they preferred to play all the Player hands than one hand by taking the bank.)
link to original post

Yeah, this is how it is in Vegas.

Some casinos have odd rules about co-banking, though. At MGM grand, you can't co-bank unless you bet on the banking player's hand in the previous round.

For example, player 1 is at a table with players 2 and 3. They are playing a normal non-banking round. If player 3 wanted to bank on the next hand, and players 1 and 2 wanted to co-bank with him, they would have to "back bet" on the current hand. So player 3 would have, for example, $25 in his betting spot, and players 1 and 2 would also have to put $25 on player 3's betting spot. They can also bet on their spot as well, if they wanted. Then, on the banking round, they would be allowed to co-bank with player 3.

Really odd rule that took me a few rounds to get used to. I'm not sure what the reasoning is for it.

Is a ritual delivery a part of the game?
Many casino regulations and dealer schools mentioned it
Something like this is shown on video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DEGYNpsFgs&ab_channel=TK

More videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/conceptcoincident

It's a part of the game. When the House is banking they just get on and do it. but for a Player bank the Player can ask for their kind of shuffle/delivery. I remermber at one casino I played at there was a list of permitted shuffles, probably similar to your list, but the Dealer did know others.

What is most popular delivery?
It looks like they are shown on six videos

Quote: VladAlex1

What is most popular delivery?
It looks like they are shown on six videos
link to original post

When the casino is banking they will always do House Way. When a player is banking there's no telling which way is the most popular, since every one has their own favorite way.

an official NJ regulations
13:69F-10.8 Player bank; co-banking; selection of bank; procedures for dealing

The 10 styles of delivery that may be used to deal the pai gow tiles are as follows:

1. House way from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of house way from the right by pushing forward the first stack of tiles on the dealer's right. The dealer shall deliver the stack pushed forward to the starting position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's right to left.
2. House way from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of house way from the left by pushing forward the first stack of tiles on the dealer's left. The dealer shall deliver the stack pushed forward to the starting position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's left to right.
3. Cup say (pick four) from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of cup say from the right by pushing forward the first two stacks of tiles on the dealer's right. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks pushed forward to the starting position. The four remaining tiles pushed forward shall be delivered to the next position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's right to left in the same manner as the first two stacks.
4. Cup say (pick four) from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of cup say from the left by pushing forward the first two stacks of tiles on the dealer's left. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks pushed forward to the starting position. The four remaining tiles pushed forward shall be delivered to the next position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's left to right in the same manner as the first two stacks.
5. Jung quat (take the heart): The dealer shall indicate the use of jung quat by pushing forward the fourth stack of tiles from the dealer's right and the fourth stack of tiles from the dealer's left (the two center stacks of the eight). The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks pushed forward to the starting position. The four remaining tiles pushed forward shall be delivered to the next position. The remaining stacks shall be pushed together and the two new center stacks shall be pushed forward and delivered in the same manner as the first two stacks. This procedure shall be repeated until all eight stacks of tiles have been delivered.
6. Chee yee (chop the ears): The dealer shall indicate the use of chee yee by pushing forward the first stack of tiles on the dealer's right and the first stack of tiles on the dealer's left. To deliver the tiles, the dealer shall center the two stacks pushed forward in front of the remaining stacks. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two centered stacks to the starting position. The four remaining tiles from the two centered stacks shall be delivered to the next position. The dealer shall then center and deliver the first stack remaining on the dealer's right and the first stack remaining on the dealer's left in the same manner. This procedure shall be repeated until all eight stacks of tiles have been delivered.
7. Pin say (slice four) from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of pin say from the right by removing the top tile of the first stack of tiles on the dealer's right and placing it diagonally across the top of the second, third and fourth stacks of tiles from the dealer's right. The dealer shall deliver the top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right to the starting position (the diagonal tile plus the three tiles it covers). The top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left shall be delivered to the next position. The top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right shall be delivered to the third position and the top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left shall be delivered to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.
8. Pin say (slice four) from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of pin say from the left by removing the top tile of the first stack of tiles on the dealer's left and placing it diagonally across the top of the second, third and fourth stacks of tiles from the dealer's left. The dealer shall deliver the top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left to the starting position (the diagonal tile plus the three tiles it covers). The top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right shall be delivered to the next position. The top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left shall be delivered to the third position and the top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right shall be delivered to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.
9. Dragon head and phoenix tail from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of dragon head and phoenix tail from the right by placing all four tiles in the first and second stacks from the dealer's right directly on top of the four tiles in the third and fourth stacks from the dealer's right and then pushing forward the top two tiles in each of the eight tile stacks that are created (forming the "dragon head"). The dealer shall deliver the four tiles pushed forward to the starting position. The top tile from each of the four stacks of four tiles to the dealer's left (the "phoenix tail") shall be delivered to the next position. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks on the dealer's right to the third position and the top tile from each of the four stacks on the dealer's left to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.
10. Dragon head and phoenix tail from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of dragon head and phoenix tail from the left by placing all four tiles in the first and second stacks from the dealer's left directly on top of the four tiles in the third and fourth stacks from the dealer's left and then pushing forward the top two tiles in each of the eight tile stacks that are created (forming the "dragon head"). The dealer shall deliver the four tiles pushed forward to the starting position. The top tile from each of the four stacks of four tiles to the dealer's right (the "phoenix tail") shall be delivered to the next position. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks on the dealer's left to the third position and the top tile from each of the four stacks on the dealer's right to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.

an official NJ regulations
13:69F-10.8 Player bank; co-banking; selection of bank; procedures for dealing

The 10 styles of delivery that may be used to deal the pai gow tiles are as follows:

1. House way from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of house way from the right by pushing forward the first stack of tiles on the dealer's right. The dealer shall deliver the stack pushed forward to the starting position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's right to left.
2. House way from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of house way from the left by pushing forward the first stack of tiles on the dealer's left. The dealer shall deliver the stack pushed forward to the starting position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's left to right.
3. Cup say (pick four) from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of cup say from the right by pushing forward the first two stacks of tiles on the dealer's right. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks pushed forward to the starting position. The four remaining tiles pushed forward shall be delivered to the next position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's right to left in the same manner as the first two stacks.
4. Cup say (pick four) from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of cup say from the left by pushing forward the first two stacks of tiles on the dealer's left. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks pushed forward to the starting position. The four remaining tiles pushed forward shall be delivered to the next position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's left to right in the same manner as the first two stacks.
5. Jung quat (take the heart): The dealer shall indicate the use of jung quat by pushing forward the fourth stack of tiles from the dealer's right and the fourth stack of tiles from the dealer's left (the two center stacks of the eight). The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks pushed forward to the starting position. The four remaining tiles pushed forward shall be delivered to the next position. The remaining stacks shall be pushed together and the two new center stacks shall be pushed forward and delivered in the same manner as the first two stacks. This procedure shall be repeated until all eight stacks of tiles have been delivered.
6. Chee yee (chop the ears): The dealer shall indicate the use of chee yee by pushing forward the first stack of tiles on the dealer's right and the first stack of tiles on the dealer's left. To deliver the tiles, the dealer shall center the two stacks pushed forward in front of the remaining stacks. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two centered stacks to the starting position. The four remaining tiles from the two centered stacks shall be delivered to the next position. The dealer shall then center and deliver the first stack remaining on the dealer's right and the first stack remaining on the dealer's left in the same manner. This procedure shall be repeated until all eight stacks of tiles have been delivered.
7. Pin say (slice four) from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of pin say from the right by removing the top tile of the first stack of tiles on the dealer's right and placing it diagonally across the top of the second, third and fourth stacks of tiles from the dealer's right. The dealer shall deliver the top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right to the starting position (the diagonal tile plus the three tiles it covers). The top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left shall be delivered to the next position. The top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right shall be delivered to the third position and the top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left shall be delivered to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.
8. Pin say (slice four) from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of pin say from the left by removing the top tile of the first stack of tiles on the dealer's left and placing it diagonally across the top of the second, third and fourth stacks of tiles from the dealer's left. The dealer shall deliver the top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left to the starting position (the diagonal tile plus the three tiles it covers). The top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right shall be delivered to the next position. The top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left shall be delivered to the third position and the top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right shall be delivered to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.
9. Dragon head and phoenix tail from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of dragon head and phoenix tail from the right by placing all four tiles in the first and second stacks from the dealer's right directly on top of the four tiles in the third and fourth stacks from the dealer's right and then pushing forward the top two tiles in each of the eight tile stacks that are created (forming the "dragon head"). The dealer shall deliver the four tiles pushed forward to the starting position. The top tile from each of the four stacks of four tiles to the dealer's left (the "phoenix tail") shall be delivered to the next position. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks on the dealer's right to the third position and the top tile from each of the four stacks on the dealer's left to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.
10. Dragon head and phoenix tail from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of dragon head and phoenix tail from the left by placing all four tiles in the first and second stacks from the dealer's left directly on top of the four tiles in the third and fourth stacks from the dealer's left and then pushing forward the top two tiles in each of the eight tile stacks that are created (forming the "dragon head"). The dealer shall deliver the four tiles pushed forward to the starting position. The top tile from each of the four stacks of four tiles to the dealer's right (the "phoenix tail") shall be delivered to the next position. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks on the dealer's left to the third position and the top tile from each of the four stacks on the dealer's right to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.

I am trying to memorize tiles by symbolic icons
Here they are.
Your suggestions and feedback are welcome

General chart

Cool...did you make those charts or find them somewhere?

EDIT: I had always heard the "axe head" on 11 is the other way.... i.e., the 5 is the axe head, and the 6 is the handle.

Thank you TigerWu for the important note.
I'll correct axe.

I am trying to modify existing chart by Icons to easy memorize
The original source:
Caesars
https://www.thecasinolsq.com/assets/empire/images/files/HO_B784037_ROG_PaiGow_V1_1.pdf

Quote: VladAlex1

...I am trying to...easy memorize...

What I found helped was, like you, to categorise the sixteen tile types.

Firstly think of them are two rows of eight, with each set of eight divided into two groups of four.

In the top row you just have to learn the top five, leaving you with white pairs (5-5 3-3 2-2) that go in numerical order. Note all the doubles (6-6 thru 1-1) are in the top row. The one I forget is easy 4 is 5th.

In the bottom row...
The first four in the bottom row are two identical tiles, again in numerical order 11 10 7 6.
The last four are the ones with two different tiles, again in numerical order 9 8 7 5 (these are the only places you find 9 and 5).

Quote: TigerWu

Cool...did you make those charts or find them somewhere?

EDIT: I had always heard the "axe head" on 11 is the other way.... i.e., the 5 is the axe head, and the 6 is the handle.
link to original post

Correct...the 5-pip pattern mirrors the cross hatch pattern of the cord securing the axe head.

Quote: VladAlex1

I am trying to memorize tiles by symbolic icons
Here they are.
Your suggestions and feedback are welcome link to original post

These are really good!

If you're using icons for memory purposes, go for whatever works.

My only comments as far as the tiles traditional associations:

The Gee Joon is sometimes associated with Yin and Yang
The Chong is usually associated with a robe of some kind...not a dress.

If you get a chance to check out Michael Musante's book on Pai Gow, he goes into what some of the designs represent.

For example, the eight dots of "Man" represent the arms and legs and the four major organs, or something like that...

The two dots on "Earth" might represent a stalk of wheat?? I can't remember... I'd have to look in the book when I get home.

I think the 12 dots of "Heaven" each represent something specific, too.

I'm not sure where else to ask, but trying to find an accurate list of when and where the tiles are played. I know Harrahs plays PGT, but only weekends, I saw a similar schedule at Caesars, Paris had it at $100. Does anyone else deal PGT in Vegas?

Based on my 2022 visits, Palace Station has two tables: $25 and $50 (minimums might have gone up) that usually run.

Bellagio and Resorts World also have $100 tables that run during busy times.

Quote: smoothgrh

Based on my 2022 visits, Palace Station has two tables: $25 and $50 (minimums might have gone up) that usually run.

Bellagio and Resorts World also have $100 tables that run during busy times.
link to original post

I was at Bellagio on a weekend last year and one of the tables had a $200 dollar minimum while the other was at $1000. Surprisingly, the $200 table was empty while the $1000 was filled with (what I assumed were) crazy rich Asians. I was tempted to sit down at the only open chair just to see how the table's vibes changed.

Back when Crazy Rich Asians was in theaters, a nice, older White lady shared with me (an Asian person) how she thought the title was offensive. If our conversation had lasted longer, I probably would have elucidated that "crazy" is an adverb that modifies "rich," not an adjective that modifies "Asians." :D

Quote: Exstatman63

I'm not sure where else to ask, but trying to find an accurate list of when and where the tiles are played. I know Harrahs plays PGT, but only weekends, I saw a similar schedule at Caesars, Paris had it at $100. Does anyone else deal PGT in Vegas?
link to original post

When I was in Vegas in December I saw a $50 tiles table at MGM Grand.

Note: when I was there Harrah’s had tiles during the week as well, but the table opened at 8pm. On weekends it was open at noon.

Also, FWIW, I’ve had a lot of luck asking casinos if I can play for $25 when the posted min is $50.

Harrah’s LV, Hard Rock AC and Paris LV have all let me bet $25 instead of the posted $50. If the table is dead and you ask politely they’ll usually go for it.

Some places changed the sign and some left the sign but let me play for less.

Vaguely related story, Borgata has a bunch of tables. I sat down at a $20 table and bought in. Placed $20 in the circle and dealer said “The minimum is $40”. I said “The sign says $20”. He points at the sign without looking at it. I ask him to look at the sign. Finally looks at the sign and realizes he was wrong and starts shuffling. Borgata has lots of tables and competent dealers but they’re not the friendliest. By far the friendliest I’ve seen has been at harrahs LV.

Last time I was at Bellagio (middle of January) one of the tiles dealers said the tables there were open every night from 8:00pm to 2:00am. I was playing $100 a hand at a $50 table, but one night the other table had a $1,000 min.