Pai Gow Tiles

Quote: Wizard

and noticed the tiles game nearby was no more. I asked a supervisor about it and he said they recently removed it. He also confirmed there is no tiles game at the Palazzo either. He added he wasn't sure if it was a permanent removal or if it was planned to be relocated.

Strange. Pai Gow Tiles seems to be gaining in popularity if you look at things such as Beginner's Articles or Tips for First Time Vegas Trekkers and stuff like that. And Asians play such a major role in the casino demographics that I am shocked that any casino would withdraw a primarily Asian game.

Quote: Wizard

I went to the Venetian today to check out the prop bets. While there I went to check on the number of players at the triple-zero roulette wheel (surprisingly zero) and noticed the tiles game nearby was no more. I asked a supervisor about it and he said they recently removed it. He also confirmed there is no tiles game at the Palazzo either.

That sucks, but I'm not surprised. The Venetian tiles table was kind of off in a corner facing a wall, and the one time I played there the table was dead (I think a Friday night?) and the dealers were kind of surly. The Palazzo table, also off in a corner, was closed whenever I went by it.

Quote: FleaStiff

And Asians play such a major role in the casino demographics that I am shocked that any casino would withdraw a primarily Asian game.

Yeah, I hope Tiles doesn't go away completely. The Harrah's table would get packed with Asian players at night and on the weekends, so that one is probably safe for a while. They may be the last Tile table left standing in Vegas! But if China continues to expand their casino reach in the Pacific Rim, that may start leaching a lot of Asians away from Vegas for good and the casinos won't have any reason to keep the game open.

I wish I had time when I was in Vegas to do a tiles survey to accurately get a feel for where it is played. Sadly, the wizardofodds site hasn't been updated in quite a while. He still has the Mirage having it when it hasn't been there in at least three years. I asked and can tell you the Venetian has dropped it. The Palazzo might have it upon request but I didn't feel like bothering the boss in the salon there about questions. I do know Harrah's has it. Caesar's has it in the high limit room. I didn't have time to check Bellagio, Wynn, Encore, Aria, Paris, or the MGM Grand. The Rio and Palace Station are off strip so I didn't go there.

Quote: Wulfgar1224

I wish I had time when I was in Vegas to do a tiles survey to accurately get a feel for where it is played. Sadly, the wizardofodds site hasn't been updated in quite a while. He still has the Mirage having it when it hasn't been there in at least three years. I asked and can tell you the Venetian has dropped it. The Palazzo might have it upon request but I didn't feel like bothering the boss in the salon there about questions. I do know Harrah's has it. Caesar's has it in the high limit room. I didn't have time to check Bellagio, Wynn, Encore, Aria, Paris, or the MGM Grand. The Rio and Palace Station are off strip so I didn't go there.

Same feelings :(

Quote: TigerWu

That sucks, but I'm not surprised. The Venetian tiles table was kind of off in a corner facing a wall, and the one time I played there the table was dead (I think a Friday night?) and the dealers were kind of surly. The Palazzo table, also off in a corner, was closed whenever I went by it.

Well if the game is placed out of the usual 'traffic flow' paths and the dealers are surly (perhaps because no players means no tips, just boredom) then I can well imagine the Green Eye Shade types eventually noticing the decline in Pai Gow Tiles revenue. All floor space has a "price" to it and staffing that floor space with dealers is a modest part of that "price" so eventually a bean counter will write some memo about the situation.

Its just strange since it used to be that the usual PR type fluff for newbies never featured such exotic things as Pai Gow Tiles. Pai Gow Poker perhaps but never Pai Gow Tiles. Yet for the last few years such columns in general publications or in newspapers in Philadelphia, Biloxi, etc. have noticeably been mentioning Pai Gow Tiles.

Its a relatively slow pace, predictable results, decent house edge game that is good for people interested in comps but not particularly dedicated to milking comps.

Quote: FleaStiff

Well if the game is placed out of the usual 'traffic flow' paths and the dealers are surly (perhaps because no players means no tips, just boredom) then I can well imagine the Green Eye Shade types eventually noticing the decline in Pai Gow Tiles revenue. All floor space has a "price" to it and staffing that floor space with dealers is a modest part of that "price" so eventually a bean counter will write some memo about the situation.

I feel like the Tile table at Harrah's is in a fairly high traffic area, wedged right between the PGP table and a Baccarat table, and right across from the High Limit room. Perhaps that's why it seems to be the hottest Tile game in town...? Maybe other casinos should have taken a lesson from Harrah's regarding their Tiles placement. Even at low table minimums, it always seemed to bring in some big bets.

Quote: TigerWu

right across from the High Limit room ... it always seemed to bring in some big bets.

Sure, all it takes is a low limit bettor who appears to be winning and some passerby will want to join in.

So which places in Vegas have tiles as of right now then? Returning in August so hotel booking time is fast approaching.

Quote: Aussie

So which places in Vegas have tiles as of right now then? Returning in August so hotel booking time is fast approaching.

Pretty sure Harrah's and Rio still have them, usually $25 min. Think Gold Coast has it.

Played them at Bellagio in 2014. Not sure if they still have it. Think someone mentioned Mirage took it out, but I don't believe Bellagio was mentioned.

Perhaps someone on the forum who would normally visit those casinos can double check.

I've generally found that telephoning someone simply does not work; much better to email a host, if its in writing they have to think before they answer and that actually makes them check up on things before they reply.

I'm a 'play where you stay' type guy but I do from time to time wander a bit particularly if I'm not doing so hot where I'm staying.

Good luck.

Harrah's, MGM Grand, Aria, Bellagio, Wynn, Caesars Palace (in high limit room), Rio, Palace Station, Lucky Dragon, and Paris are the ones that had it when I when I went on a tiles survey last year. Encore didn't have it and the Venetian recently removed it (I was there last week and asked at the Venetian). You'd have to check in the salon at Palazzo. They might have it if you talk to a floorman. The Mirage and Mandalay Bay got rid of tiles at least 3 years ago.

Lucky Dragon filed for bankruptcy protection. Hotel and casino equipment in limbo. Derek Stevens rumored as possible interested party but does not want to buy into unpleasant lawsuits.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Pretty sure Harrah's and Rio still have them, usually $25 min. Think Gold Coast has it.

Played them at Bellagio in 2014. Not sure if they still have it. Think someone mentioned Mirage took it out, but I don't believe Bellagio was mentioned.

When I visited in 2016 I saw and played it at Venetian (stayed there specifically for it), Wynn, Harrahs, Paris, Caesars & Bellagio. Have also heard it’s in Aria and/or Cosmo.

I guess any confirmation from someone around the area would be helpful I choosing this year’s venue.

When I was there last October, the Harrah's minimum sometimes went down to $15 during off-hours (i.e., weekday mornings). Don't know if they're still doing that, however. The only other $15 game I saw was Lucky Dragon, which obviously is gone now.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Pretty sure Harrah's and Rio still have them, usually $25 min. Think Gold Coast has it.

Played them at Bellagio in 2014. Not sure if they still have it. Think someone mentioned Mirage took it out, but I don't believe Bellagio was mentioned.

Rio definitely does. Gold Coast does not. At least as of last month.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Pretty sure Harrah's and Rio still have them, usually $25 min. Think Gold Coast has it.

I can confirm both do, as of about a month ago.

Can anyone confirm the Mirage removal? Any other removals lately?

I will do some updating when I get the chance.

There's always a game available at my house in Oklahoma... haha...

If I have enough down time tomorrow at work (I suspect I will), I will email every casino on the strip and ask them for details.

I can confirm that Palace Station still has it.

On March 17th, I emailed over 30 casinos on/near the Vegas Strip to find out the current status of Pai Gow Tiles. As of March 28th I've had over 20 responses. Here is what I've been able to confirm via email:

Harrah's - Okay, I didn’t email them, but it’s well-known they have a Tile game open 24/7. Minimum is $25, sometimes $15 during off-peak hours.

Caesar’s Palace – “The limit on our Tiles game is a $100 minimum with a $10,000 maximum and you can play 1 or 2 hands if you choose. We have only 1 Pai Gow Tiles game located in our high limit area, and there are no set hours for the game. The game will normally be open between 12 Noon and 1pm, and usually remain open until around 3am. These times are not exact, and business will dictate these hours.”

Bellagio – “Our casino does have Pai Gow Tiles 24 hours per day. The minimums are based on business levels and can start as low as $50.”

Wynn – “…we do have one table for Pai Gow at Wynn it is open all day each day. The minimum is $100.00.”

Venetian/Palazzo – “We do not currently offer Pai Gow Tiles at either of our casinos at this time. When we do offer it, during certain holidays and upon special request, the betting limits range from $25 to $10,000.” (Interesting answer… I’m assuming they offer it during specific Asian holidays and if a VIP requests it.)

MGM – “Pai Gow Tile Gaming is available on the main casino floor adjacent to High Limit Slots. Minimums can range from $25, $50, and $100. This is based on time, season, and occupancy. Maximum can be as high as $10,000.”

Rio – “We have one Tiles game that is open 24/7. The limits are $25 - $500.”

Paris – “The game is a $25 minimum and is open from 12pm till 2am Monday thru. Friday, Sat. and Sun. it can be open as late as 6am if there is interest in the game.”

Aria – “Our Pai Gow tiles game is open 24hrs and is generally $25 minimum.”

Those are the confirmed games. Other casinos:

Luxor - I couldn't find an actual email address for them. Their website doesn't list a Tile game available.

New York, New York - Claimed to have it, but based on their response I think whoever answered my email misunderstood and thought I was talking about Pai Gow Poker. Also, their website does not list it as an available game.

Cosmopolitan, Palms, Mirage, Encore, Gold Coast, Tropicana, Linq, Planet Hollywood, Flamingo, Circus Circus, Treasure Island, and Bally's confirmed via email that they did not offer a Tile game.

Mandalay Bay, Excalibur, Hooters, Monte Carlo, SLS, Stratosphere, Hard Rock, and Palace Station have not responded to email inquires as of today.

If you don't see a casino then I didn't email them. This includes all the Downtown places, and I think a few slightly off-Strip places.

Thanks for that report, TW! Sorry I didn't notice it before.

This question actually comes up in part 3 of my pai gow series, which I just uploaded. Unlike my Wizard of Odds Academy videos, this one was very time consuming to make and put together. I hope you enjoy it.

So what's the deal with Tiles being so prolific on the East Coast? Just a huge Asian community in that part of the country?

Quote: TigerWu

So what's the deal with Tiles being so prolific on the East Coast? Just a huge Asian community in that part of the country?

I think so. It may also be that west coast Asians are a little more assimilated and thus not so loyal to Asian games.

Quote: TigerWu

I'm slightly confused about the JB simple strategy for tiles... (I'm going to throw out random numbers just to illustrate my question; I have no idea if these combinations are even possible in tiles.)

It says play the first rule that applies. The first rule is the "only one way" rule. Does this rule only apply to a situation where my high hand and low hand are simultaneously higher than any other combination?

The very last rule says, "Play the best high hand with all other combinations." Does this mean I ignore things like balance; i.e., if I can play (non-high)9,0 or 6,6 or 7,5, I would play 9,0 and not 6,6?

I'm just so used to the 4-rule "basic strategy" of:

1) pairs
2) high-9, gongs, wongs
3) two tiles totaling 9
4) biggest tile with smallest tile for balance

that I'm not sure if the the JB strategy is supposed to supersede all of that, or if that strategy is just "assumed" in the "only one way" part.

I hope my questions make sense.

EDIT: Okay, I think I might have just answered my own questions, but I'm going to let this stand just to get some more input.

Venetian has a good hand guide book for free

Anybody had any hot Pai Gow Tile action lately?

I was at Harrahs playing by myself and two women came up to me and asked what I was doing.

I was banking, so I decided to use the tiles setting of “one man, two women.” I won the hand, but the women weren’t that impressed with the game.

Haha... yeah, I've noticed that people's eyes tend to glaze over when they come up to the Tile table and start asking questions.

It's definitely a "fishbowl" game, though.

I think the one trip I had at Harrah's where a couple watched for a minute and eventually played 30 mins by having their dealer set their hand the house way each time takes the cake for me. The dealer evened asked them if playing a slot would be more fun than watching her play their money each time.... :)

I was interested to find that here in Alberta, there is actually a standard house way (nearly identical to Foxwoods) specified for all casinos in the Gaming and Liquor Commission casino licencee handbook, which is publicly available online. Among other things, the rules also state that players are allowed to bank twice in a row each time they have the chance to do so.

Are there any other jurisdictions that mandate a house way for pai gow?

Quote: AlexR

Among other things, the rules also state that players are allowed to bank twice in a row each time they have the chance to do so.

Oh, wow, I wonder what that does to your overall odds?

Where's all the math guys??

If the house way is the Traditional Way (which it likely is), and you are playing optimally (two separate strategies), and you bank 2 out of every 3 hands, then the overall house edge is 0.435%.

Quote: FinsRule

I was banking, so I decided to use the tiles setting of “one man, two women.” I won the hand, but the women weren’t that impressed with the game.

Hey! That is my favorite pick-up line at the pai gow table. To be honest with you, it never worked for me either.

I just did my first live stream with Heather of Vegas Aces. The topic was pai gow (tiles), but, of course, with me, I easily and quickly got off topic. This was fun and I'm thinking of doing whatever I have to do to do it from my place. If you want to see me take questions about pai gow from Heather and her audience, please click the live stream link.

Let me know if you think this is a good idea for a regular thing.

So, here's the absolute beginner's strategy for Pai Gow that most of us started with (and the strategy that Harrah's will give you at the table):

1) Play any pairs.

2) Play 2 or 12 with 7, 8, or 9, in that order.

3) Play any two tiles adding up to 9.

4) Play biggest tile with smallest tile.


I've been trying to come up with a few additional rules to make kind of an "advanced" beginner's strategy. I feel like there's no in-between with Tiles; it's either this beginner strategy, and then BOOM there's all the various house ways and advanced strategies with dozens of rules and exceptions that can get really complicated.

This is not supposed to be mathematically perfect, but rather just a few more rules to start building on the basic strategy that could feasibly be explained to an average gambler right on the casino floor without having to memorize specific tiles and exceptions. This is what I've got so far:


5) Split pairs to make 8/9 or higher.

6) Balance tiles to make 5/9 or higher, making low hand a priority if you can't get at least a 5 AND a 9 (e.g., play 5/9 rather than 6/8, but 5/8 rather than 4/9).

7) If best low hand is 3 or lower, sacrifice it to play a high hand of 7 or better.


I don't know if that makes any mathematical difference with the original beginner strategy. I've heard the beginner strategy works 80% of the time, so maybe with these new rules we can get to 85% or so? I don't know. I'm also not sure if rule 7) should just read, "if best low hand is 3 or lower, throw everything at the high hand." Again, this is supposed to be a really dumbed down strategy to help out beginners without their having to think too much.

Quote: Wizard

I just did my first live stream with Heather of Vegas Aces. The topic was pai gow (tiles), but, of course, with me, I easily and quickly got off topic. This was fun and I'm thinking of doing whatever I have to do to do it from my place. If you want to see me take questions about pai gow from Heather and her audience, please click the live stream link.

Let me know if you think this is a good idea for a regular thing.

I enjoyed the recording of the live stream! It's nice to hear two knowledgeable people talking about a subject they're passionate about.

My only criticism is that a recorded podcast/livestream starts to go off the rails when you start speculating on topics that are beyond your ken. Oh, and unless it's an emergency, take the call later!

But as far as pai gow tiles, nice chat! I enjoyed hearing your thinking process aloud, and felt better that it does take a little bit of reasoning to pick the hand that has the best EV. And that even you aren't 100% certain at times. I made the mistake of choosing 9-1 over 5-5 in my last tiles game, and I lost that hand!

And thanks to Heather for the tile flip trick! I'll have to practice that!

I bought a pai gow set from Wish.com a couple weeks ago and it just arrived. I'm pretty happy with it for the price, though I think it's somewhat smaller and lighter than the ones they use in casinos.

Quote: AlexR

I bought a pai gow set from Wish.com a couple weeks ago and it just arrived. I'm pretty happy with it for the price, though I think it's somewhat smaller and lighter than the ones they use in casinos.

Looks OK to me, but if you want inexpensive casino-grade in their case with dice, spinettis is a great resource for things like that. Edit: store link below, but it's not letting me link the Mandalay Bay set I bought from them.

https://www.m.ebay.com/seller?sid=spinettis&_trksid=p2349526.m4383.c10

Quote: beachbumbabs

Looks OK to me, but if you want inexpensive casino-grade in their case with dice, spinettis is a great resource for things like that. Edit: store link below, but it's not letting me link the Mandalay Bay set I bought from them.

I found the one you're referring to and the postage to Canada alone is more than I paid for these, including shipping from China.

Quote: AlexR

I found the one you're referring to and the postage to Canada alone is more than I paid for these, including shipping from China.

Ah. Sorry bout that. Didn't realize you were in Canada.

Anybody played Tiles recently? How was the action? Where did you play?

I might be in Vegas in a few months, and I'm always worried this game is going to disappear at any minute...

Palace Station, Rio, Harrahs are all good for tiles at the lowest minimums.

YMMV

Quote: beachbumbabs

Looks OK to me, but if you want inexpensive casino-grade in their case with dice, spinettis is a great resource for things like that. Edit: store link below, but it's not letting me link the Mandalay Bay set I bought from them.

https://www.m.ebay.com/seller?sid=spinettis&_trksid=p2349526.m4383.c10

Do the casino grade sets come in an ugly brown pleather case?

That’s what I have. They seem nice, but I’ve never actually played the game in a casino to be able to compare.

I bought several used sets of tiles, I think from the Mandalay at Spinetti's, which is right by the Gambler's General Store. These are the nice heavy type they use in casinos. They do have a little bit of the corner drilled off. I see from their web site their price now is $17 for Mandalay: pai gow sets. I don't remember what I paid exactly before, but think it was more like $5.

Quote: gamerfreak

Do the casino grade sets come in an ugly brown pleather case?

That’s what I have. They seem nice, but I’ve never actually played the game in a casino to be able to compare.

Sometimes they do. Although I bought a used casino set once that came in a cardboard box. That was actually the original packaging from the manufacturer; had the labels on it an everything.

On a side note, the last few times I've played at Harrah's, the dice they were using were the cheap plastic Asian style, and looked like they had been through a garbage disposal. I can't believe they don't change those out more often.

Quote: gamerfreak

Do the casino grade sets come in an ugly brown pleather case?

That’s what I have. They seem nice, but I’ve never actually played the game in a casino to be able to compare.

Yup. Ours come in those little brown cases.

I was in Vegas last week. I got a chance to play some tiles. They still have it at Caesars (high limit room),Bellagio, Paris, Wynn,MGM Grand, Harrah’s, and Aria. I didn’t go to Rio or Palace Station. Mirage, Venetian, Palazzo, and Encore are done with it.

This guy's good....

Nice. I put the headphones on because that's like ASMR for degens.

I just booked my trip to Vegas in August. I'll be staying at the Linq for a few days and will definitely play some tiles at Paris and possibly also Harrrah's. (I've been to Paris a few times and liked it. I think I've walked through Harrah's once or twice and never really felt a draw to stay). I've heard rumors of $15 tables at Paris, which, if true, may keep me there for awhile.

Quote: TinMan

I just booked my trip to Vegas in August. I'll be staying at the Linq for a few days and will definitely play some tiles at Paris and possibly also Harrrah's. (I've been to Paris a few times and liked it. I think I've walked through Harrah's once or twice and never really felt a draw to stay). I've heard rumors of $15 tables at Paris, which, if true, may keep me there for awhile.

I have always seen $25, but maybe on off hours, who knows.

I believe there is a lower limit game at Palace Station, but don't quote me on that.

Hi All,
I am trying to figure out Pai Gow tiles online casino game case for single player- 2 hands allow to bet.
Pai Gow Tiles allows to play 2 hands when Dealer-Banker
If a player is the bank, the player may wager on only one betting area in real multi player game
It is reasonable for multiplayer real casino game.

In my imaginary scenario player-banker can play two hands... and take advantage to win tie cases.
Is it possible to get two players hands(2) and dealer hand (1) for all three of them to be identical?
If yes how it affects RTP?

Thanks,
Vlad