Pai Gow Tiles
May 30th, 2017 at 4:23:59 PM
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Is there an advantage to knowing all players' tiles on a full table to narrow down what the dealer has?
May 30th, 2017 at 8:09:53 PM
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Yes.
If I'm not mistaken there is a pai gow calculator on the Wizard of Odds site that allows you to choose additional tiles that you know other players have in their hand. That will give you some idea of how much of a difference it can make.
If I'm not mistaken there is a pai gow calculator on the Wizard of Odds site that allows you to choose additional tiles that you know other players have in their hand. That will give you some idea of how much of a difference it can make.
May 31st, 2017 at 4:45:33 AM
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Pai Gow Tiles Calculator
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
May 31st, 2017 at 8:33:25 AM
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On a full table of tiles there is always one spot that is kept closed and no one is allowed to play it, even though a hand of tiles is dealt there. This is to prevent exactly what you are talking about.
In theory, if you knew what all the non-dealer tiles were, then obviously you would have an advantage, but in practice, even at a full table there are always EIGHT tiles that will be unknown to the players. I don't know how much an advantage you would have even if you knew the rank of all eight tiles, because you would have no idea of the tile distribution between the dealer and dead hand.
In theory, if you knew what all the non-dealer tiles were, then obviously you would have an advantage, but in practice, even at a full table there are always EIGHT tiles that will be unknown to the players. I don't know how much an advantage you would have even if you knew the rank of all eight tiles, because you would have no idea of the tile distribution between the dealer and dead hand.
May 31st, 2017 at 9:03:08 AM
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Well if you don't know the advantage, its sure beyond me with my woefully lacking math skills but I can tell you this: the casino thinks its one hell of an advantage if they devote the time and space to dealing a "dummy" hand particularly if there is another player waiting to play.Quote: TigerWuI don't know how much an advantage you would have even if you knew the rank of all eight tiles . . .
Daubing opportunity? Contact lenses?
May 31st, 2017 at 9:26:22 AM
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One thing I noticed at a full table is that sometimes the players will want to know where all the Teen and Day tiles are. So, I guess if it's discovered that all of the Teen and Day tiles are in player hands, that might be some useful information some how?? I don't know, that's the kind of math that's way above my head when it comes to tiles.
May 31st, 2017 at 9:44:06 AM
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I haven't studied the effect of collusion in pai gow tiles. My educated guess is that the dummy hand significantly decreases the value of collusion to the point where it doesn't overcome the house edge. However, just significantly denting it might be enough to come out on top considering comps and promotions.
I suspect experienced Asian player do announce their teens and days in Chinese or Vietnamese. Sometimes it happens that it is known the players have all four of them. That is often valuable information. If you had the choice between High-9/x, gong/x-1 and wong/x-2 you would obviously play high-9/x.
I suspect experienced Asian player do announce their teens and days in Chinese or Vietnamese. Sometimes it happens that it is known the players have all four of them. That is often valuable information. If you had the choice between High-9/x, gong/x-1 and wong/x-2 you would obviously play high-9/x.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 31st, 2017 at 9:58:50 AM
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Do you have an educated guess as to what percentage of Tiles dealers have sufficient knowledge of an Oriental language to be aware of such collusive statements being made?
May 31st, 2017 at 10:26:38 AM
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When I played tiles in Vegas a couple weeks ago, I'd say about 70% of the dealers I encountered were Asian and spoke Cantonese or Mandarin. One dealer was Vietnamese, so I don't know if he knew a Chinese language. I don't think the white dealers could speak it at all. When there were Asian players at the table, Chinese was freely spoken, among the players and with the dealers who could speak it. The dealers and pit bosses never seemed worried that any collusive statements were being made, at least not at Harrah's.
May 31st, 2017 at 1:36:55 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffDo you have an educated guess as to what percentage of Tiles dealers have sufficient knowledge of an Oriental language to be aware of such collusive statements being made?
My educated guess is 50%. As the poster above this one said, it could be Mandarin, Cantonese, or Vietnamese. Most pai gow dealers will speak one of these languages but I think would know enough of the others to tell when the players are attempting collusion.
The unwritten policy on collusion in tiles is to turn a blind eye to it. The casinos seem to think, I believe correctly, that collusion doesn't swing the edge to the player's favor.
I'm a little tempted to actually do some analysis on this topic but it is the kind of thing that would take weeks and the number of people who would care could be counted on two hands. Maybe just one.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 31st, 2017 at 3:34:31 PM
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Quote: TigerWuOne thing I noticed at a full table is that sometimes the players will want to know where all the Teen and Day tiles are. So, I guess if it's discovered that all of the Teen and Day tiles are in player hands, that might be some useful information some how?? I don't know, that's the kind of math that's way above my head when it comes to tiles.
I studied this several years ago.
It is an advantageous situation to be in when the dealer has no Teen or Day tiles.
The catch is, the advantage comes from the situation itself -- the dealer having only relatively poor tiles in their hand -- not from the strategy you use when you find yourself in that situation.
If you adjust your strategy to optimally take advantage of the situation, the best you can do is only marginally better than just using the regular optimal strategy.
I don't recall exactly what the decrease in house edge was, I think it was 0.03% or less, and there were many bizarre exceptions you had to learn to achieve that. Furthermore, this included 9 different strategies according to how many Teen and how many Day tiles were seen outside of the dealer's hand. Even with all of that, the decrease in house edge was minuscule. I concluded it was not worth pursuing.
Knowing exactly what the dealer's tiles are (and how they would set them), however, is another matter entirely.
May 31st, 2017 at 3:43:40 PM
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most of my regulars discuss where the teens and days are...but it doesn't help their long term profit because they are gamblers not ap's
get second you pig
May 31st, 2017 at 5:11:10 PM
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Quote: JBI don't recall exactly what the decrease in house edge was, I think it was 0.03% or less,
Thanks for chiming in. Could it be said you only looked at the situation of counting teens and days, not determining the exact eight tiles left?
Surprising it is only 0.03%. I'd have guessed a lot more.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 1st, 2017 at 2:55:42 PM
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Quote: WizardThanks for chiming in. Could it be said you only looked at the situation of counting teens and days, not determining the exact eight tiles left?
Surprising it is only 0.03%. I'd have guessed a lot more.
Yes, that is what I did: develop different strategies based on how many Teen/Day tiles were observed outside of the dealer's hand.
I did not look at the situation where the dealer's tiles were known. I suspect that would provide enough of an advantage to crush the game in a low-variance manner if all 7 players were in on it.
June 1st, 2017 at 4:19:31 PM
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Quote: JBI did not look at the situation where the dealer's tiles were known. I suspect that would provide enough of an advantage to crush the game in a low-variance manner if all 7 players were in on it.
I think it is a moot question too since there always seems to be a dummy hand. Unless you marked the tiles.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 2nd, 2017 at 8:25:30 AM
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I'm slightly confused about the JB simple strategy for tiles... (I'm going to throw out random numbers just to illustrate my question; I have no idea if these combinations are even possible in tiles.)
It says play the first rule that applies. The first rule is the "only one way" rule. Does this rule only apply to a situation where my high hand and low hand are simultaneously higher than any other combination?
The very last rule says, "Play the best high hand with all other combinations." Does this mean I ignore things like balance; i.e., if I can play (non-high)9,0 or 6,6 or 7,5, I would play 9,0 and not 6,6?
I'm just so used to the 4-rule "basic strategy" of:
1) pairs
2) high-9, gongs, wongs
3) two tiles totaling 9
4) biggest tile with smallest tile for balance
that I'm not sure if the the JB strategy is supposed to supersede all of that, or if that strategy is just "assumed" in the "only one way" part.
I hope my questions make sense.
EDIT: Okay, I think I might have just answered my own questions, but I'm going to let this stand just to get some more input.
It says play the first rule that applies. The first rule is the "only one way" rule. Does this rule only apply to a situation where my high hand and low hand are simultaneously higher than any other combination?
The very last rule says, "Play the best high hand with all other combinations." Does this mean I ignore things like balance; i.e., if I can play (non-high)9,0 or 6,6 or 7,5, I would play 9,0 and not 6,6?
I'm just so used to the 4-rule "basic strategy" of:
1) pairs
2) high-9, gongs, wongs
3) two tiles totaling 9
4) biggest tile with smallest tile for balance
that I'm not sure if the the JB strategy is supposed to supersede all of that, or if that strategy is just "assumed" in the "only one way" part.
I hope my questions make sense.
EDIT: Okay, I think I might have just answered my own questions, but I'm going to let this stand just to get some more input.
June 2nd, 2017 at 9:15:53 AM
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Quote: TigerWuIt says play the first rule that applies. The first rule is the "only one way" rule. Does this rule only apply to a situation where my high hand and low hand are simultaneously higher than any other combination?
Yes, just be aware that some hands which have only one way to play might not appear that way at first glance.
A great example is: Teen(or Day) + L10 + H6 + Gee
choice 1: 2/9 = 11 points
choice 2: 6/8 = 14 points
choice 3: 6/8 = 14 points
2/9 is no good because it has fewer points, even though its high hand outranks the other two.
So that leaves two ways to play 6/8.
But one of these ways is also no good, the one that wastes the H6 by playing it with the Teen/Day tile.
So the only way to play this hand is playing Teen/Day + Gee in the high hand, and H6+L10 in the low hand.
Quote: TigerWuThe very last rule says, "Play the best high hand with all other combinations." Does this mean I ignore things like balance; i.e., if I can play (non-high)9,0 or 6,6 or 7,5, I would play 9,0 and not 6,6?
You need to follow the rules in the order they are listed, using the first one that applies.
So if you can make 6/6 you would have followed the first rule in that section which says to play the best low hand if it's worth 5, 6, or 7 points.
Quote: TigerWuI'm just so used to the 4-rule "basic strategy" ... I'm not sure if the the JB strategy is supposed to supersede all of that, or if that strategy is just "assumed" in the "only one way" part.
My simple strategy outperforms the house way. Try to unlearn the house way, as it's not very powerful.
June 2nd, 2017 at 9:30:49 AM
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Quote: JB
My simple strategy outperforms the house way. Try to unlearn the house way, as it's not very powerful.
Thank you for your input, JB!! I was all over the place and just confusing myself when the answers were right in front of me, because, as you say, I need unlearn what I have learned.
June 5th, 2017 at 7:43:59 AM
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How would I play the following tiles with the JB strategy, and which rule applies?
1) H8, H6, L6, L8
2) H2, L2, L6, L10
3) L2, H10, H4, 11
1) H8, H6, L6, L8
2) H2, L2, L6, L10
3) L2, H10, H4, 11
June 5th, 2017 at 9:15:22 AM
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A suggestion for all who haven't done this already: get yourself a pai gow tiles set to practice.
They're at eBay, Chinese grocery stores (usually at the front counter where they keep the expensive liquor), and at the gambling supply stores in Las Vegas.
I found it's a lot easier to get used to holding the tiles and moving them around.
They're at eBay, Chinese grocery stores (usually at the front counter where they keep the expensive liquor), and at the gambling supply stores in Las Vegas.
I found it's a lot easier to get used to holding the tiles and moving them around.
June 5th, 2017 at 9:43:40 AM
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If you look in an Asian market, a lot of times the tiles will come in an unmarked case or a case with Chinese writing on it, so you might not even notice it. But usually there's a "game" section, with go stones, playing cards, and maj jong sets, and if they have dominoes that's where they'll be. I would recommend getting a used casino set off of ebay, since tiles come in slightly different sizes, and if you get a used casino set then you'll have an exact feel for the tiles they use. This is especially crucial if you plan on reading the tiles with your fingers. I have a casino-used set and some random home-use set I got in a Chinatown, and the Chinatown ones just feel weird to play with after using the casino ones for so long. I honestly found it hard to concentrate on what I was doing. I also used to have a "mini" set where the tiles were the size of small Western dominos, and they were almost un-play-with-able after I got a "real" set of tiles. Pai Gow is such a tactile game that in my opinion the kind of tile you practice with is absolutely vital.
Also, make sure you practice setting up different delivery styles, so when you bank in a casino you don't look like a clumsy oaf when the dealer pushes the woodpile in front of you. Remember, the more complicated the delivery style, the longer it takes to deal the tiles, which slows the game down, which saves you money!! :D
Also, make sure you practice setting up different delivery styles, so when you bank in a casino you don't look like a clumsy oaf when the dealer pushes the woodpile in front of you. Remember, the more complicated the delivery style, the longer it takes to deal the tiles, which slows the game down, which saves you money!! :D
June 5th, 2017 at 11:21:38 AM
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Quote: TigerWu1) H8, H6, L6, L8
In the All Other section:
- The best low hand is 4 points, so part 1 doesn't apply
- The best high hand is 6 points, so part 2 doesn't apply
- The best high hand is 6 with H8, so part 3 doesn't apply
- So part 4 applies, setting it as 2/6, whereas optimal strategy is 4/4 (with H6 and H8 separated). This is the tradeoff with a simple strategy, it's not always right.
Quote: TigerWu2) H2, L2, L6, L10
In the All Other section:
- The best low hand is 4 points, so part 1 doesn't apply
- The best high hand is 8 points, so part 2 doesn't apply
- The best high hand is 8 points, so part 3 doesn't apply
- So part 4 applies, the best high hand, 2/high 8 (H2 in high hand), which is also the optimal play.
Quote: TigerWu3) L2, H10, H4, 11
In the All Other section:
- The best low hand is 3 points, so part 1 doesn't apply
- The best high hand is 6 points, so part 2 doesn't apply
- The best high hand is 6 with L2, so part 3 doesn't apply
- So part 4 applies, setting it as 1/6, which is also the optimal play.
June 5th, 2017 at 11:39:04 AM
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I'm not a tiles player, but shouldn't you just treat this like video poker? You're dealt a specific hand and there is only one correct way to play it.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 5th, 2017 at 11:50:35 AM
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Of course, but as with video poker, the optimal strategy for the entire game is so complex that there will be many exceptions to any set of rules you come up with in an effort to describe it.
Optimal strategy for tiles is like the optimal strategy for One-Eyed Jacks, on a smaller scale.
Optimal strategy for tiles is like the optimal strategy for One-Eyed Jacks, on a smaller scale.
June 5th, 2017 at 12:00:56 PM
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Quote: JBOf course, but as with video poker, the optimal strategy for the entire game is so complex that there will be many exceptions to any set of rules you come up with in an effort to describe it.
Optimal strategy for tiles is like the optimal strategy for One-Eyed Jacks, on a smaller scale.
I understand that. Shouldn't be to hard with only four tiles, correct? I mean, it doesn't have a payscale like VP. But then again, what do I know.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 5th, 2017 at 12:12:38 PM
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Thank you again for your input, JB. Still getting the hang of re-learning strategy!
June 5th, 2017 at 12:28:51 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesI understand that. Shouldn't be to hard with only four tiles, correct? I mean, it doesn't have a payscale like VP. But then again, what do I know.
You'd be surprised. I welcome you to take a stab at it, and you'll see what I mean.
June 5th, 2017 at 12:57:57 PM
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Tiger wu. Just FYI there are places that do not mark off a spot and this all tiles are in play.
At one point prior to removal mirage did not always block at spot
At one point prior to removal mirage did not always block at spot
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
June 5th, 2017 at 1:00:13 PM
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Using me as an example.
I like complicated games. I like difficult strategy. I play competition bridge, nibble at chess, enjoy puzzles. Pai Gow Tiles is just on the edge of my grasp, can flounder through it with a base understanding of a set of rules, but with no finesse. That's how hard it is.
I agree it's worth getting a set of tiles. This is the exact set I bought, though it's on ebay. Mine came from spinetti's directly. They are exactly the tiles the Vegas casinos use, in my experience, and spinetti's a good seller.
http://www.m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?isRefine=true&sid=spinettis
http://m.ebay.com/itm/32-USED-MANDALAY-BAY-HOTEL-AND-CASINO-Pai-Gow-Tiles-Set-CASE-Dice-and-Plaque-/302195352226?hash=item465c3f22a2%3Ag%3AroEAAMXQrhdTWVeD&_trkparms=pageci%253Ae6fd59e1-4a28-11e7-b7e3-74dbd180c7dd%257Cparentrq%253A79d3712615c0abc051db32e2fff91851%257Ciid%253A14
I like complicated games. I like difficult strategy. I play competition bridge, nibble at chess, enjoy puzzles. Pai Gow Tiles is just on the edge of my grasp, can flounder through it with a base understanding of a set of rules, but with no finesse. That's how hard it is.
I agree it's worth getting a set of tiles. This is the exact set I bought, though it's on ebay. Mine came from spinetti's directly. They are exactly the tiles the Vegas casinos use, in my experience, and spinetti's a good seller.
http://www.m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?isRefine=true&sid=spinettis
http://m.ebay.com/itm/32-USED-MANDALAY-BAY-HOTEL-AND-CASINO-Pai-Gow-Tiles-Set-CASE-Dice-and-Plaque-/302195352226?hash=item465c3f22a2%3Ag%3AroEAAMXQrhdTWVeD&_trkparms=pageci%253Ae6fd59e1-4a28-11e7-b7e3-74dbd180c7dd%257Cparentrq%253A79d3712615c0abc051db32e2fff91851%257Ciid%253A14
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
June 5th, 2017 at 2:20:09 PM
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I've seen pai gow sets for sale in places that sell maj jong. Usually there will be a pai gow set somewhere among them.
New Vision Gaming sells pai gow tile cards but it looks like they are a supplier to casinos so many not be happy to sell just one deck. I personally have one but they gave it to me as a gift.
New Vision Gaming sells pai gow tile cards but it looks like they are a supplier to casinos so many not be happy to sell just one deck. I personally have one but they gave it to me as a gift.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 5th, 2017 at 2:28:34 PM
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You can sometimes find pai gow practice card decks on ebay, such as this one:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=pai+gow+cards&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xpai+gow+practice+deck.TRS0&_nkw=pai+gow+practice+deck&_sacat=0
Also if you search for a game called "Domino 32" it's some weird card game that uses pai gow tile playing cards. For example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAI-GOW-games-with-DOMINO-32-/120597675340?hash=item1c142e7d4c:m:msPNlRHZt23gkSEthvOol3A
Nothing beats real tiles, of course, but those card decks are a fraction of the price of a set of tiles, and I can see them coming in handy if you want to practice on the plane on your way to the casino or something.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=pai+gow+cards&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xpai+gow+practice+deck.TRS0&_nkw=pai+gow+practice+deck&_sacat=0
Also if you search for a game called "Domino 32" it's some weird card game that uses pai gow tile playing cards. For example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAI-GOW-games-with-DOMINO-32-/120597675340?hash=item1c142e7d4c:m:msPNlRHZt23gkSEthvOol3A
Nothing beats real tiles, of course, but those card decks are a fraction of the price of a set of tiles, and I can see them coming in handy if you want to practice on the plane on your way to the casino or something.
June 5th, 2017 at 3:46:20 PM
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Quote: beachbumbabs...I agree it's worth getting a set of tiles. This is the exact set I bought, though it's on ebay. Mine came from spinetti's directly. They are exactly the tiles the Vegas casinos use...
Are the "Casino Used" sets all scored on the back? Are these marks so prominent that you can identify individual tiles?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
June 5th, 2017 at 3:56:32 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaAre the "Casino Used" sets all scored on the back? Are these marks so prominent that you can identify individual tiles?
No. The tiles are well made and they look about equally worn. I've noticed the MGM logo in the game there seems have varying degrees of wear but I've never thought to exploit it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 5th, 2017 at 4:03:15 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaAre the "Casino Used" sets all scored on the back? Are these marks so prominent that you can identify individual tiles?
I've seen some casino used tiles with a giant scratch on the back of each one. The set I have is from the Mohegan Sun, and the ends have a small divot drilled in them. It's not a problem if you're just buying a set to practice with or play with friends, but in answer to your question, yes, the cancellation marks are prominent enough (at least on my set) that you could probably exploit them in some way.
June 6th, 2017 at 4:11:06 AM
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The Mandalay Bay set I bought has the cancellation marks on the face, so the set can be enjoyed without tells. Not very obvious drills, either (though good enough to be seen if you tried something sneaky with one).
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
June 6th, 2017 at 1:59:12 PM
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I'd never have the courage to try something sneaky in a casino. Particularly at a game in which I already stand out for not being Asian.Quote: beachbumbabs(though good enough to be seen if you tried something sneaky with one).
"... Pai Gow Tiles is just on the edge of my grasp, can flounder through it with a base understanding of a set of rules, but with no finesse. That's how hard it is."
I think that is a good enough grasp for you to play it. How much finesse do you need with so many 'pushes'? You will already impress everyone with your being knowledgeable but not Asian, you won't be delaying the game in any way so go play for real and see if any finesse develops..
June 8th, 2017 at 7:57:16 AM
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I've read in a few Pai Gow rulesets that a player can "surrender" their hand AFTER the dealer has set their hand. In such an instance, the dealer takes the player's tiles and discards them WITHOUT exposing them, and the player loses his wager.
What on Earth is the point of that? Why not just let the hand play out in case you or the dealer has made a mistake? I just don't see the advantage to it at all.
What on Earth is the point of that? Why not just let the hand play out in case you or the dealer has made a mistake? I just don't see the advantage to it at all.
June 14th, 2017 at 5:14:08 AM
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Quote: TigerWuI've read in a few Pai Gow rulesets that a player can "surrender" their hand AFTER the dealer has set their hand. In such an instance, the dealer takes the player's tiles and discards them WITHOUT exposing them, and the player loses his wager.
What on Earth is the point of that? Why not just let the hand play out in case you or the dealer has made a mistake? I just don't see the advantage to it at all.
It just speeds up the game a little. It's not something you need to do. I will do it if I've got 2/3 and the dealer makes 7/9: there's not much point in making the dealer expose my losing hand, I already know it's lost. If you're prone to making mistakes, or still learning the game, I wouldn't recommend it.
In Vegas, when you split your tiles, you put the two stacks side by side. To surrender you just mess your tiles up, such as pushing the top two tiles off.
On the east coast, when you split your tiles, you must place them perpendicular to each other in a "T" shape. To surrender, you slide one of the stacks toward the other so that they are both side-by-side (just like a regular Vegas split).
If you do the "T" split in Vegas, they'll look at you funny and tell you not to do that. But if you split your tiles Vegas-style on the east coast, you are surrendering.
June 15th, 2017 at 1:24:31 AM
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I ran into an interesting hand playing Tiles a couple days ago. If I'm looking at it right, it seems like a typical house way gives the optimal play, JB simple gives the second best play and JB advanced gives the third best. The hand is L2, L4, 9, L8. Has anyone else come across this particular deal before?
House way -> 2/Wong
JB Simple -> 6/7
(Play the best low hand if it is worth 6 or 7 points and the tiles include a low-2 and/or high-8.)
JB Advanced -> 3/Gong
(Play a Low 8 Gong whenever possible, except when you also have a High 8 and cannot use it to make a low hand of 7 or better. If given a choice between 2 and 12, play the 12 in the high hand.)
Possibly a rare exception that just has to be memorized?
House way -> 2/Wong
JB Simple -> 6/7
(Play the best low hand if it is worth 6 or 7 points and the tiles include a low-2 and/or high-8.)
JB Advanced -> 3/Gong
(Play a Low 8 Gong whenever possible, except when you also have a High 8 and cannot use it to make a low hand of 7 or better. If given a choice between 2 and 12, play the 12 in the high hand.)
Possibly a rare exception that just has to be memorized?
June 15th, 2017 at 6:06:07 AM
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Quote: JBMy simple strategy outperforms the house way. Try to unlearn the house way, as it's not very powerful.
I went looking for your strategy, but it somehow eluded me. Where do I go to find your simple strategy?
June 15th, 2017 at 6:45:59 AM
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Quote: docbrockL2, L4, 9, L8
The traditional way would actually set this as 3/Gong, as the TW has an exception that if the choice is between Gong and Wong, and the Gong has any 3-point low hand, play the Gong instead of the Wong. However, not all casinos implement this exception, and/or not all dealers are aware of it, so some will play it as 2/Wong.
Regarding my simple/advanced strategies, it's another case of where a simplified strategy will necessarily have errors, since optimal strategy is complex. (Even the advanced strategy is simplified compared to optimal.)
Quote: LuckyPhowI went looking for your strategy, but it somehow eluded me. Where do I go to find your simple strategy?
Here.
June 15th, 2017 at 8:15:52 AM
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Quote: docbrockI ran into an interesting hand playing Tiles a couple days ago. If I'm looking at it right, it seems like a typical house way gives the optimal play, JB simple gives the second best play and JB advanced gives the third best. The hand is L2, L4, 9, L8. Has anyone else come across this particular deal before?
House way -> 2/Wong
JB Simple -> 6/7
(Play the best low hand if it is worth 6 or 7 points and the tiles include a low-2 and/or high-8.)
JB Advanced -> 3/Gong
(Play a Low 8 Gong whenever possible, except when you also have a High 8 and cannot use it to make a low hand of 7 or better. If given a choice between 2 and 12, play the 12 in the high hand.)
Possibly a rare exception that just has to be memorized?
Most casino house ways for this hand are as follows:
Usually, unless you can play a high 3 or better in the low hand, you go with the stronger top, 2/Wong.
If either the 4 or the 8 were high instead of low, then 3/gong becomes correct.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
June 15th, 2017 at 9:27:20 AM
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BTW, I can confirm the Lucky Dragon has one pai gow table.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 15th, 2017 at 7:18:22 PM
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Quote: JBThe traditional way would actually set this as 3/Gong, as the TW has an exception that if the choice is between Gong and Wong, and the Gong has any 3-point low hand, play the Gong instead of the Wong. However, not all casinos implement this exception, and/or not all dealers are aware of it, so some will play it as 2/Wong.
Regarding my simple/advanced strategies, it's another case of where a simplified strategy will necessarily have errors, since optimal strategy is complex. (Even the advanced strategy is simplified compared to optimal.)
Ah, I wasn't aware of that exception in the traditional way. I was under the impression that a typical house way would play any 2 with a 7, 8 or 9, in that order of priority, so long as the play resulted in a low hand of 3 with a Chong (high-6 tile) or better. If the play resulted in a low hand that was weaker than a 3 with a Chong, then the house way would play the best high hand.
So with L2 L4 9 L8, playing the gong would result in a low hand of 3 (L4 9), but the three would be one rank weaker than a 3 with a Chong tile, so the house would play the Wong instead.
June 16th, 2017 at 8:28:46 AM
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Quote: WizardBTW, I can confirm the Lucky Dragon has one pai gow table.
What was the minimum? When I was there on like a Friday afternoon it was $15 and totally dead. Then again, the whole casino was pretty much dead.
I'm really curious to see how much Tile action Resorts World is going to have when/if they ever open, since they are supposed to be catering to the Asian market as well.
June 16th, 2017 at 9:13:27 AM
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Quote: TigerWuWhat was the minimum? When I was there on like a Friday afternoon it was $15 and totally dead. Then again, the whole casino was pretty much dead.
I forgot to check. This was on a Tuesday around 11 AM and the table was standing dead as most of them were.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 16th, 2017 at 11:05:03 PM
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Quote: WizardI forgot to check. This was on a Tuesday around 11 AM and the table was standing dead as most of them were.
Lucky Dragon actually has 2 Pai Gow Tiles tables. I played there on Monday between 4-8PM, both tables were open (with 3-4 players at each table), $25.00 minimum.
The house way seems to be typical: High 6 rule for 3 point low hands, H8 11 H10 7 is played 7/9.
$15.00 minimum (!) Macau-Style Baccarat also available for those who enjoy squeezing cards.
Also saw someone selling BTC at a Bitcoin ATM near the Lucky Dragon Player's Club.
January 27th, 2018 at 5:24:05 PM
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I went to the Venetian today to check out the prop bets. While there I went to check on the number of players at the triple-zero roulette wheel (surprisingly zero) and noticed the tiles game nearby was no more. I asked a supervisor about it and he said they recently removed it. He also confirmed there is no tiles game at the Palazzo either. He added he wasn't sure if it was a permanent removal or if it was planned to be relocated.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
January 27th, 2018 at 7:31:21 PM
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Shoot. I'm staying there in June and was hoping to play. I'll have to go over to Harrah's.
January 28th, 2018 at 2:35:13 AM
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It doesn't surprise me. I try to go to the Venetian/Palazzo every March and they were always inconsistent with the tiles table. They had limited hours and one year I was there they had moved the table into that salon. I don't look at the numbers. But, I'm sure they could put up many tables in its place that would be far more profitable. Mandalay and Mirage pulled tiles as well within the last 3 years or so. It wouldn't surprise me if the other casinos that carried the game did as well.
