dajakesta
dajakesta
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October 22nd, 2016 at 8:55:30 PM permalink
Hi guys, as y'all know, I'm pretty new to Ultimate texas holdem and I found a dealer who flashes one of the community cards. Are there any advantage I can gain from this information? It'd be great if you guys can shed some light on this game so I can be a more informed player. :)

EDIT: I just noticed the title got 2 I's in them LOL
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
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October 22nd, 2016 at 11:39:58 PM permalink
Quote: dajakesta

Hi guys, as y'all know, I'm pretty new to Ultimate texas holdem and I found a dealer who flashes one of the community cards. Are there any advantage I can gain from this information? It'd be great if you guys can shed some light on this game so I can be a more informed player. :)

EDIT: I just noticed the title got 2 I's in them LOL



If the flashed card gives you a pair, you can raise 3X or 4x (depending on the size of the pair) on a hand you would normally check. For instance, you have J6, you might bet 4X if a Jack flashed and 3X if a 6 flashed. You also might bet 3X if your hand was suited and the flashed card was of that same suit.

Conversely, the flashed card might slow you down. If you had 55 and would normally raise, but a higher card flashed, you might wait to see the entire flop before raising.

I have no idea what the exact strategy would be, but it's obviously valuable to see one card before you make your preflop decision to raise or check. I don't know what that would be worth to the player. Most of the time, the information won't be helpful. The effect would be that you'd gain an extra bet or two every so often by raising 3X/4X on a hand when without seeing the flashed card, you would normally check, then after seeing that you've paired up on the flop, you would raise 2X.
RS
RS
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October 22nd, 2016 at 11:52:44 PM permalink
IIRC, one flopped card would yield a relatively small advantage (for HC'ing).
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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October 23rd, 2016 at 5:12:13 AM permalink
Fwiw, based on how I've seen the game dealt most places, he's likely seeing the river, not a flop card. If it's being dealt from a SHFL machine, the packet of 5 comes out first, and they spread it to dealer's left from top to bottom after setting it down, making the river card the bottom.

So personally, I think I would 4x if I held face+little and the river paired the face, pocket deuces and it was a deuce, otherwise play optimally. I think it would make more difference in ev on promoting a 1x bet to a 2x if the river helps you, and fits with your hand/the flop.

I don't think 3x is a good bet, even with flashing. Either it's worth 4x, or check. 3x is shorting yourself in a game where you have to be aggressive.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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October 23rd, 2016 at 6:11:30 AM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

If the flashed card gives you a pair, you can raise 3X or 4x (depending on the size of the pair) on a hand you would normally check. For instance, you have J6, you might bet 4X if a Jack flashed and 3X if a 6 flashed. You also might bet 3X if your hand was suited and the flashed card was of that same suit.

Conversely, the flashed card might slow you down. If you had 55 and would normally raise, but a higher card flashed, you might wait to see the entire flop before raising.

I have no idea what the exact strategy would be, but it's obviously valuable to see one card before you make your preflop decision to raise or check. I don't know what that would be worth to the player. Most of the time, the information won't be helpful. The effect would be that you'd gain an extra bet or two every so often by raising 3X/4X on a hand when without seeing the flashed card, you would normally check, then after seeing that you've paired up on the flop, you would raise 2X.


It's never correct to bet 3x in Ultimate.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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October 23rd, 2016 at 8:59:37 AM permalink
It's a very small advantage with lots of variance.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
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October 23rd, 2016 at 10:33:40 AM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

It's never correct to bet 3x in Ultimate.



I generally avoid statements of "never" in gambling strategies, because there's always context. If you see one card and it gives you a low pair, a 3X rather than a 4X bet may be appropriate in terms of reducing variance. I'm sure that the actual strategy for this situation is fairly complicated.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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October 23rd, 2016 at 11:11:49 AM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

I generally avoid statements of "never" in gambling strategies, because there's always context. If you see one card and it gives you a low pair, a 3X rather than a 4X bet may be appropriate in terms of reducing variance. I'm sure that the actual strategy for this situation is fairly complicated.


Well then,generally speaking, most of the time 3x will be an incorrect amount to bet.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
dajakesta
dajakesta
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October 23rd, 2016 at 11:13:46 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Fwiw, based on how I've seen the game dealt most places, he's likely seeing the river, not a flop card. If it's being dealt from a SHFL machine, the packet of 5 comes out first, and they spread it to dealer's left from top to bottom after setting it down, making the river card the bottom.

So personally, I think I would 4x if I held face+little and the river paired the face, pocket deuces and it was a deuce, otherwise play optimally. I think it would make more difference in ev on promoting a 1x bet to a 2x if the river helps you, and fits with your hand/the flop.

I don't think 3x is a good bet, even with flashing. Either it's worth 4x, or check. 3x is shorting yourself in a game where you have to be aggressive.



FWIW, the dealers here spread to the dealer's right so i am seeing the flop.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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October 23rd, 2016 at 11:56:39 AM permalink
Quote: dajakesta

FWIW, the dealers here spread to the dealer's right so i am seeing the flop.


Then 4x bet any pair and possibly any really good flush draws.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!

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