Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 23315
December 24th, 2016 at 5:39:19 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I doubt that the average player would be better off taking the loss.

It depends on the length of play. I imagine a situation where it would matter is the player stands on 12-16, or doubles to under 17, and the dealer sticks on 17. The player's only hope is to have the dealer hit it out. If the dealer does, his chances of busing are 21.21%. So, there is a 21.21% chance of turning a loss to a win, or a swing of two units. Or mentioning the error is worth 0.4242 units.

Coincidentally, the house edge is 0.2125% higher if the dealer hits a soft 17. So, it would take 0.4242/0.002125 = 199.6 hands for the lower house edge to equate to the lost 0.4242 units by keeping your mouth shut.

Personally, I would rather take the bird in the hand and point out the error when I had a stiff hand against a soft 17.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
• Posts: 8623
December 24th, 2016 at 6:12:53 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

It depends on the length of play. I imagine a situation where it would matter is the player stands on 12-16, or doubles to under 17, and the dealer sticks on 17. The player's only hope is to have the dealer hit it out. If the dealer does, his chances of busing are 21.21%. So, there is a 21.21% chance of turning a loss to a win, or a swing of two units. Or mentioning the error is worth 0.4242 units.

Coincidentally, the house edge is 0.2125% higher if the dealer hits a soft 17. So, it would take 0.4242/0.002125 = 199.6 hands for the lower house edge to equate to the lost 0.4242 units by keeping your mouth shut.

Personally, I would rather take the bird in the hand and point out the error when I had a stiff hand against a soft 17.

To be noted: Just because you fix the dealer error doesn't mean he'll be fixed going forward. On the other hand, not fixing the dealer error doesn't mean he won't deal properly going forward.

I usually assume a dealer error is a one time thing, although I don't block out the possibility it'll happen again. If the dealer is grossly incompetent, that's a different story. I saw (sort of) a dealer deal a DD shoe (or whatever you call it) completely backwards, like from third base to first base....shoe before and after was normal. He also had an A showing, asked insurance, a few did, he checked, nobody home....dealt out the player's hit cards.....flipped a T in the hole, hit it with another T, then an 8, then a 5 and "busted" (or something like that). Floorman was watching....basically said "f*** this" didn't do anything walked over to me and told me what happened and what I thought he should do....and I was like meh, nothing probably.

You never know what you're gonna see.
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
• Posts: 1926
December 25th, 2016 at 5:15:23 AM permalink
I also have seen a dealer deal backwards, from 3rd to 1st base.The floor called it a dead hand.Also have seen dealers forget to take a hole card . It's fun to watch their reaction when they go to flip it over and there's nothing there.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
Canyonero
Joined: Nov 19, 2012
• Posts: 509
January 13th, 2017 at 7:50:17 AM permalink
In this article you will find some interesting perspectives on the Ivey / Borgata case, including the written Baccarat agreement.
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
• Posts: 1636
January 13th, 2017 at 8:10:10 AM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

In this article you will find some interesting perspectives on the Ivey / Borgata case, including the written Baccarat agreement.

As KGB would say... 'Pay.. dat.. man.. hizzz money' ! Although, I still contend that there was an insider at the card manufacturing facility... otherwise that Chinese woman is the most brilliant, preceptive, and focused women every to walk the earth. How did she figure out the patterns on specific decks of cards without someone giving her a hint? When big money is involved, anyone and anything can be bought.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
• Posts: 2223
Thanks for this post from:
January 13th, 2017 at 8:13:25 AM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

Although, I still contend that there was an insider at the card manufacturing facility... otherwise that Chinese woman is the most brilliant, preceptive, and focused women every to walk the earth. How did she figure out the patterns on specific decks of cards without someone giving her a hint? When big money is involved, anyone and anything can be bought.

https://www.888casino.com/blog/edge-sorting/survey-of-sortable-cards/

These defects are in about 70% of cards in use and are obvious to the casual observer. That's why people have been edge sorting for the last 50 years. For example, Stanford Wong wrote about it in 1993 in his book Blackjack Secrets. You just don't know about it. That doesn't mean others don't.

Here are a few other references to edge sorting:

https://www.888casino.com/blog/edge-sorting/a-few-historical-references-to-edge-sorting/

Use Google and/or listen to experts before stating things that are easily refuted and demonstrably wrong. Then again, don't do that, and let us form a fair opinion of you based on your willingness to say things that have no merit whatsoever.

FYI - I was Ivey's expert witness in his 2014 lawsuit against Crockford's Casino.
Last edited by: teliot on Jan 13, 2017
Poetry website: www.totallydisconnected.com
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
• Posts: 683
February 28th, 2017 at 3:39:39 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

My article on the topic was just posted:

https://www.888casino.com/blog/edge-sorting-future/

UK Supreme Court Will Review Ivey-Crockfords Case

Teliot summarizes previous history in his link, above.

But now the UK Supreme Court has decided to review the case. Earlier UK court decisions went against Ivey, while still saying he had not cheated the Baccarat game in question. The UK Supreme Court only hears cases which raise issues of general public importance. One issue with this case is that the previous court decisions have apparently left the UK gaming regulations in an "undefined" situation that somehow must be resolved.

Here's a link to current news:
UK Supreme Court Will Hear Phil Ivey's Gambling Case

Stay tuned. Film at eleven.
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
• Posts: 2223
February 28th, 2017 at 4:12:51 PM permalink
Thanks for the update. Good to hear. Go Phil!
Poetry website: www.totallydisconnected.com
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
• Posts: 683
Thanks for this post from:
July 13th, 2017 at 8:00:19 PM permalink
Poker Pro Phil Ivey Goes All In at U.K. Supreme Court

It seems the oh-so-quiet battle Phil Ivey has with Crockfords casino in London is once again heating up.

If you cannot recall details of this David vs. Goliath struggle, Teliot summarized previous history in this link:
UK Supreme Court Will Hear Phil Ivey's Gambling Case

The article referenced below says the UK Supreme Court heard arguments today and soon will render the final, Final, FINAL decision on this long, drawn-out legal struggle.
UK Supreme Court to hear Ivey’s final appeal on 13-Jul-2017

The legal issues are rather tangled so I won't try to summarize them here. As I've noted before, I sure hope Ivey can win the case. Stay tuned.
CyrusV
Joined: Aug 8, 2015