SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 3480
Thanks for this post from:
onenickelmiracle
November 25th, 2016 at 4:04:49 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Actually, I think the Division of Gaming agrees with you. I believe their contention is that any game not following the rules is null and void no matter what the outcome is.

What have been consequences for such illegal gambling?
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 681
Thanks for this post from:
onenickelmiracle
November 25th, 2016 at 4:58:00 PM permalink
Quote: DRich


Actually, I think the Division of Gaming agrees with you. I believe their contention is that any game not following the rules is null and void no matter what the outcome is.


Well, I dunno. If I recall correctly, the Judge expressed frustration that the gaming regulators had remained silent on this whole issue, which was part of the reason he accepted the case.

If you have information that NJ gaming regulators expressed any opinion about the Borgata-Ivey affair, please share. I agree with you they SHOULD have agreed with what I posted, but I cannot find any reference that NJ gaming regulators DID any determination of the legality of the Borgata Baccarat game.

Maybe Bob Nersesian can provide the information I lack.
someone
someone
Joined: Nov 9, 2014
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 36
November 25th, 2016 at 10:33:29 PM permalink
Quote: BobDancer

Is there anything about this case you'd like us to consider asking him?


Not sure if it is a question he can answer but:
How can edge can an edge sorted deck been deemed to contain marked cards when a proper shuffle (which surely must include a turn to be considered proper) undoes any supposed marking?
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
November 25th, 2016 at 11:38:14 PM permalink
Quote: someone

Not sure if it is a question he can answer but:
How can edge can an edge sorted deck been deemed to contain marked cards when a proper shuffle (which surely must include a turn to be considered proper) undoes any supposed marking?



On top of that, going by the judge's definition of marked cards, a deck/shoe is marked, due to the washing of the cards at the start of the session. (Not that you'd necessarily gain an edge, but if you kept track, you would notice they are inherently marked, without any outside influence.)
rainman
rainman
Joined: Mar 28, 2012
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 1469
Thanks for this post from:
LuckyPhow
November 26th, 2016 at 12:29:23 AM permalink
I Would like to know if he himself would have taken Ivey's case if he received compensation only upon a favorable judgement or settlement.
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
  • Threads: 322
  • Posts: 7036
Thanks for this post from:
LuckyPhow
November 26th, 2016 at 1:01:15 AM permalink
I'm sure he's reviewed the opinion and is familiar with the arguments.

My question: how would he have approached and argued the case, had Mr. Ivey been his client?
"What, me worry?"
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
Thanks for this post from:
onenickelmiracle
November 26th, 2016 at 1:55:25 AM permalink
Regulators have a habit of waiting for issues to come before them, often after considerable administrative hurdles. Regulators also tend to focus on the most narrow of findings.

I've never heard of any regulator taking action when a slot machine was misconfigured. No general order to identify and reimburse all players. The only focus is on the complaining player's interaction. When the M opened with a machine that had one of its reels installed backwards, the regulators didn't reach out and order all users of the machine compensated. When security guards at a different casino got too rough with a protesting player who turned out to be right in his declaration that the machine was not working properly, the sole focus was on that player's actions, not the improperly rigged slot machine and other players or money wrongfully obtained from the public.

So I'd not expect regulators to prematurely reach out and make comments about improperly shuffled "preshuffled" decks. Nor would I expect regulators to reach out via PR statements about convincing damned fool employees to rotate certain valuable cards.

No casino has to be cheap enough to buy cards susceptible to edge sorting but the emphasis is on improper activities by players, not dealers.

Casinos tend to like knowledgeable players, but not overly knowledgeable ones.

Tony Freet, who is probably a member here, tried to create a core of "pre-measured" players by creating a sort of national association of players that would deliver to the industry a next generation of gamblers all presorted by favorite game and favorite casino. His idea seemed to me to have been poorly executed, I think because he focused more on marketing rather than the mechanics of gambling. Then, I think he got very rich by various other means and I believe left the industry. His notion was to end the age demographics that casinos are beset with. This was a business decision and regulators are likely to leave alone matters of comps or other ways of grooming potential players whether done en mass by a separate entity or done by individual casinos over time. Comps are a business decision, not a gambling decision subject to regulation.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 77
  • Posts: 7565
November 26th, 2016 at 6:57:10 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

When the M opened with a machine that had one of its reels installed backwards, the regulators didn't reach out and order all users of the machine compensated..



A reel on "backwards" or a reel strip put on wrong does not alter the payout of a machine. The machine pays the proper amount but just visually reflects the outcome incorrectly.
Order from chaos
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
November 27th, 2016 at 8:43:14 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

A reel on "backwards" or a reel strip put on wrong does not alter the payout of a machine. The machine pays the proper amount but just visually reflects the outcome incorrectly.

Opening night of M casino, M management declared it null and void, but paid from their general fund the amount that had been indicated as a jackpot. Final reel was on backwards.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 77
  • Posts: 7565
November 28th, 2016 at 7:43:43 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Opening night of M casino, M management declared it null and void, but paid from their general fund the amount that had been indicated as a jackpot. Final reel was on backwards.



Fantastic, that is great customer service.
Order from chaos

  • Jump to: