Poll

2 votes (15.38%)
1 vote (7.69%)
6 votes (46.15%)
1 vote (7.69%)
2 votes (15.38%)
5 votes (38.46%)
4 votes (30.76%)
4 votes (30.76%)
5 votes (38.46%)
6 votes (46.15%)

13 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
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October 21st, 2016 at 2:57:38 PM permalink
The fourth in my Ten Commandments for Game Inventors states, "Thou Shalt Not Use Unfamiliar Equipment." I guess the makers of Rouleno never read them, or just didn't agree. Nevertheless, as a mathematician and gambling writer, I always like to see a fresh idea as opposed to tweaking existing games. It breaks up the boredom a bit.

That said, I stumbled upon a fresh new game at the Max (formerly known as the Casuarina) yesterday. Instead of the usual dice or cards, it is played with six billiard balls, numbered 1 to 6. They are drawn one at a number into numbered positions and the player bets on the number of balls that match in number and position drawn.

Rather than explain everything twice, please see my new page on Rouleno. As always, I welcome questions, comments, and especially corrections. I also encourage my fellow mathematicians to note the challenge at the bottom of the page.

The question for the poll is would you play Rouleno (multiple votes allowed)?

p.s. Sorry Maria, that should be Bartiromo (even admins can't edit poll choices).
Last edited by: Wizard on Oct 21, 2016
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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October 21st, 2016 at 3:21:47 PM permalink
See this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rencontres_numbers
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
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October 21st, 2016 at 3:23:04 PM permalink
1. Why isn't it called Kenette?
2. What were you doing in the Max anyway?
3. Do you think this will appeal to veteran Casino War players?
Wizard
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Wizard
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October 21st, 2016 at 3:45:06 PM permalink
Here is a table on the probability that there will be zero position matches for 1 to 20 balls drawn:

n Combinations Probability
1 - -
2 1 0.500000000000000
3 2 0.333333333333333
4 9 0.375000000000000
5 44 0.366666666666667
6 265 0.368055555555556
7 1,854 0.367857142857143
8 14,833 0.367881944444444
9 133,496 0.367879188712522
10 1,334,961 0.367879464285714
11 14,684,570 0.367879439233606
12 176,214,841 0.367879441321282
13 2,290,792,932 0.367879441160691
14 32,071,101,049 0.367879441172162
15 481,066,515,734 0.367879441171397
16 7,697,064,251,745 0.367879441171445
17 130,850,092,279,664 0.367879441171442
18 2,355,301,661,033,950 0.367879441171442
19 44,750,731,559,645,100 0.367879441171442
20 895,014,631,192,902,000 0.367879441171442


Note how the probability approaches 1/e.

The formula for the probability of 0 position matches in n balls drawn, f(n,0), can be expressed as:

f(n,0) = n*f(n-1,0) + (1 if n is even, otherwise -1).

Okay, I submit for the consideration of the forum the following simpler formula:

f(n,0)=round(fact(n)/e).

Is that brilliant or am I just easily amused?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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October 21st, 2016 at 3:50:50 PM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

1. Why isn't it called Kenette?
2. What were you doing in the Max anyway?
3. Do you think this will appeal to veteran Casino War players?



1. Sounds like a feminine form of Ken. I think anybody who has seen a Ken doll naked knows he could use more testosterone as it is.
2. My Vegas survey, which you will be hearing a lot more about in the near future.
3. No. I think it has too many betting choices for War players.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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October 21st, 2016 at 4:11:24 PM permalink
On the webpage, you ask for more information on the sequence. I am a little surprised you are not familiar with the Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences.

Here is far more information on the sequence than you can probably use.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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October 21st, 2016 at 4:16:17 PM permalink
How often do we think the croupier (or whatever you want to call them here) will forget to enforce losing combinations on the individual numbers?
Wizard
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Wizard
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October 21st, 2016 at 5:04:44 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

How often do we think the croupier (or whatever you want to call them here) will forget to enforce losing combinations on the individual numbers?



While in field trial, I think a lot. Then again, it will happen only once in 360 games, where it matters, and forgetting that rule would only result in a 0% house edge game, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if that happened.

The whole time the dealer and floorwoman were explaining the rules to me, because I couldn't read the rule card without my glasses, neither mentioned this exception to the Individual Numbers bets. I could picture some ill-will when this does happen and the dealer does remember.

At the risk of the house edge being too low (of 0.83%), I would have suggested barring a perfect 1-2-3-4-5-6 sequence. That would induce bets on a Perfect Sequence, which carries a 16.4% house edge.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
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October 21st, 2016 at 5:37:26 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The fourth in my Ten Commandments for Game Inventors states, "Thou Shalt Not Use Unfamiliar Equipment." I guess the makers of Rouleno never read them, or just didn't agree. Nevertheless, as a mathematician and gambling writer, I always like to see a fresh idea as opposed to tweaking existing games. It breaks up the boredom a bit.



That link doesn't work for me, but I know I've seen the commandments before. Isn't one of them not to mix games? This is one of my biggest pet peeves with new games - based on that alone, I will never play Rouleno. It sounds like a bunch of po-crap to me.
I heart Crystal Math.
Wizard
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Wizard
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October 21st, 2016 at 10:16:50 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

That link doesn't work for me, but I know I've seen the commandments before. Isn't one of them not to mix games? This is one of my biggest pet peeves with new games - based on that alone, I will never play Rouleno. It sounds like a bunch of po-crap to me.



Sorry, try it now -- Ten Commandments for Game Inventors. Yes, you would be referring to my commandment #5.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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